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So the Problem with TOR is...

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
So the Problem with TOR is...

Vego_Mohenjo's Avatar


Vego_Mohenjo
04.19.2013 , 02:35 PM | #1
First, let me say that I do like the game. It does many things very well indeed, but I don't think anyone would dispute that the game has not lived up to expectations. The question is, WHY? What went wrong?

I do have a theory on that. The problem with TOR, and with many other games these days, is lack of DEPTH. Consider that there is nothing to do except quests. There's nothing to do for downtime. No hobbies, no Pazzak or Sabaac, no crafting (YOU don't do it, your crew does), precious little exploring, and precious little to immerse you in the setting as a result.

What TOR needed and needs is a bit more sandbox.

One of the basic reasons for this has to do with Star Wars Galaxies. Now, I know there have been lots of comparisons, but TOR is not Galaxies II; it's a totally different game. That said, the developers had to know that they would be getting MANY players from Galaxies, especially once it closed down.

Players from Galaxies would come to this game, not necessarily expecting the same experience, the same open sandbox, but likely hoping for at least SOME of it. When they got here and found none of it, they left, likely for one of the SWG Emulators. Bioware needed to take some of what one could find in Galaxies and incorporate it into THIS game. Things like space flight, housing, deep crafting and social activities like music and dancing (I would have recommended something like LotRO's music system), pazzac, sabaac and so on would have gone FAR in improving the game.

These things create DEPTH, by letting the players create their own activities. There's no way to keep up with the demand for actual content, so you need to make it possible for the players to entertain themselves. That way, when players get bored with yet another series of battles, they won't log off and go play something else; they'll stay here and keep playing TOR, which is better for everyone.

I explained all this back in beta, and I've said it elsewhere too, but no one ever listens to me for some reason. I hope that the developers will consider what I've said here a little more seriously, now that TOR has endured some rough waters. I want the game to last a long, long time. The best way to accomplish that is to deepen the experience.

Thanks.

branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
04.19.2013 , 02:41 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Vego_Mohenjo View Post
What TOR needed and needs is a bit more sandbox.
No, If I wanted to play a space sandbox game, I'd play EVE. Now that said, stuff like housing and a music system wouldn't make me quit, but I couldn't care less about them.

You think housing and a music system would help alleviate player boredom? You can only decorate your house so much and listening to bad .abc renditions of "Stairway to Heaven" is as far from "entertaining" as you can get.

Vego_Mohenjo's Avatar


Vego_Mohenjo
04.19.2013 , 02:46 PM | #3
I'm not saying the game has to become a sandbox game, but I think it needs some of those elements. Music and housing and so forth may not appeal to YOU, but there are many to whom it would be a strong appeal. Bioware would be well served to provide these kinds of things to draw in those people, too.

That is, if all you want is adventure, you would be no worse off. The idea here is to draw in the people who want more than that. It would be of particular appeal to roleplayers, of course, but they need to consider that audience too.

JPryde's Avatar


JPryde
04.19.2013 , 02:53 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Vego_Mohenjo View Post
I'm not saying the game has to become a sandbox game, but I think it needs some of those elements.
I would phrase it differently:

I definitely would like to see some sandbox elements added and the game could very much use some, but they are not really needed.

Then again... noone needs a wookiee and we still got one :P
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TheNahash's Avatar


TheNahash
04.19.2013 , 02:59 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Vego_Mohenjo View Post
Players from Galaxies would come to this game, not necessarily expecting the
same experience, the same open sandbox, but likely hoping for at least SOME of it.
If you read some of their posts, it's quite clear that most ex-SWG players seem to be here to either
a. try to replicate the fun they had playing that game.
or
b. bash this game, hoping that they will eventually "kill" it and get back their precious SWG, as if SWG was in a great place before it was cancelled in terms of number of players and profitability.

Quote: Originally Posted by Vego_Mohenjo View Post
When they got here and found none of it, they left, likely for one of the SWG Emulators. Bioware needed to take some of what one could find in Galaxies and incorporate it into THIS game. Things like space flight, housing, deep crafting and social activities like music and dancing (I would have recommended something like LotRO's music system), pazzac, sabaac and so on would have gone FAR in improving the game.
I got here hoping it would feel more like Elder Scrolls and Fallout than Wow. Should they also include things found in those games here?
They made this game a certain way. Regardless of whether that was a success or a failure, they don't have to radically change the game to appease those who will never like it just because in their heads it's the reason their favorite MMO died.

SWG, WOW, Lotro, GW and whatever else MMO you can think of, all have their own way of doing things.
Bioware has copied enough things from other MMOs to last them a lifetime.
This game doesn't need more things copied over from other games. And even if it did, it shouldn't use a game that faded away like SWG did as an example.
It needs more new, original stuff.

Vego_Mohenjo's Avatar


Vego_Mohenjo
04.19.2013 , 03:14 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by TheNahash View Post
If you read some of their posts, it's quite clear that most ex-SWG players seem to be here to either
a. try to replicate the fun they had playing that game.
or
b. bash this game, hoping that they will eventually "kill" it and get back their precious SWG, as if SWG was in a great place before it was cancelled in terms of number of players and profitability.



I got here hoping it would feel more like Elder Scrolls and Fallout than Wow. Should they also include things found in those games here?
They made this game a certain way. Regardless of whether that was a success or a failure, they don't have to radically change the game to appease those who will never like it just because in their heads it's the reason their favorite MMO died.

SWG, WOW, Lotro, GW and whatever else MMO you can think of, all have their own way of doing things.
Bioware has copied enough things from other MMOs to last them a lifetime.
This game doesn't need more things copied over from other games. And even if it did, it shouldn't use a game that faded away like SWG did as an example.
It needs more new, original stuff.
I agree with you, more original material is always good. However, there's only so much the devs can do. They added 5 more levels and new content, and there were people at max level, having done all the new material, in a matter of hours. They need to create a system of activities that we can engage in for ourselves. Other games have used things like housing, crafting, music and so on, but if they can devise something new, all the better. The point is that they need to make it possible for us to do other things to entertain ourselves.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with drawing inspiration from something else if it was something good. That doesn't mean copying, just drawing inspiriation.

That is, people in other games enjoy a system of housing that allows them to decorate their house in a creative way, that allows them to become part of the game setting. It doesn't have to be the same as Galaxies had, but it's something people did enjoy, so it might be prudent to make something like it here. The same is true of other activities.

There are many "types" of player. Some go adventuring, and have no interest in anything else. Some like to explore. Some like to socialize and become part of the setting. Others like to build things, be it a business or a house or what have you. Catering to only one playstyle limits your playerbase, and reduces your game's longevity. Thus, I think Bioware would be well served to consider expanding the game in these areas.

ScarletBlaze's Avatar


ScarletBlaze
04.19.2013 , 03:26 PM | #7
I agree with you on some of the items you have listed. I played SWG for quite a long time and yes I agree some things might enhance TOR but there are some things I disagree with knowing what happen with certain aspects on SWG. I don't think an entertainer like we had on SWG is needed and if you make it were they give buffs like they did it makes it essentially a problem. A lot of the entertainers (I had one on swg) were afk 90% of the time and some if you didn't tip them refused to buff you so that creates another problem.

Housing would be nice if they could figure a way where it doesn't interfere with the game and just clutter up the area.

There are some things I agree that would be beneficial , like more in depth crafting, but I guess they would have to look and see what would actually work the best and even then you will still have some SWG players complaining that SWTOR isn't what they want and what is funny usually the ones that are doing that were also the ones that were in the SWG forums complaining about SWG before they announced it was closing.
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