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Ready Check not usefull for tanks atm


steave's Avatar


steave
04.04.2013 , 12:46 PM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by NrDLeipe View Post
And if i give leader to a no tank class, how can he know how the tank is gonna pull and what to cc???
Some tanks use pull, some use a knockback to grp a few together etc, no way that the other class leader knows what the tank is gonna do, so ye he needs lead or atleast assistant, ye i can see good points about the tactics etc but to be fair if i look at the dps in pugs most of them have a dffrent mindset then a tank they see damage but not the surrounding, a decent tank has scanned the surrounding makes a tactic and pulls, without the lead/assistant his tactic is gone. ( marking )

The way i see it a tank should have enough knowhow to be a leader, interupts,cc,tactics etc... if not then he nees to learn alot still ( then ye he shouldnt have lead or maybe just to learn how to use marks etc ) or the guy just sucks bad and shouldnt run at all
What to CC is primarily decided based on the threat the mob pose to the group, and when there are multiple mobs posing a similar threat level you go for the ones most out of the way from the rest to allow for AOEs when possible. The leader does need to keep in mind how that decision affects the other roles and classes - for example, discharge and smash are important parts of sin and jugg tanking rotations so avoiding any CCs in the centre of the group is important while it doesn't matter much for a powertech - as long as he's allowed to DFA before the CC is applied. That applies to DPS too though, rage jugg/marauders need that same clearance for their smash, just like some sorc and sin specs need it for their death field while the other DPS classes don't really care (except lethality maybe - one of the few specs I don't have any experience with, not sure how important corrosive grenade is to them).
A good leader will keep all that stuff and more in mind while being familiar enough with all classes to know what kind of CCs they have available to them, if any (especially for lower level FPs where it's also a matter of knowing if that class has its CC yet or not), which is why someone experienced in playing all 3 roles (and preferably with experience playing as many classes as possible, at least to a basic level, to learn how they work), regardless of what role they're playing at that time.
If the plan presented by the leader presents a problem for the tank he can speak up, but that will only happen if you have an incompetent leader that failed to properly account for the class makeup and situation at hand, otherwise he would have taken the tools available to the tank into account to make sure it be as easy as possible to manage.

As an example, I often end up taking charge in the group regardless of what class I'm playing since I'm a very experienced player that levels mainly trough warzones and flashpoints (so I've ran them all countless of times, even the ones without a HM version), have cleared everything in the game as DPS and tank (and everything but EC/TFB HM and up as a healer) and know every class very well after getting one of every AC to 50.
Basically, I can (and do) take my main (powertech) into anything as either DPS or tank, both have BiS gear. Do you really think I forget everything about tanking when I hit respec and go for DPS, or forget how to DPS when I go tank for the day? Or forget about either role when I decide to log it out and log on one of my healers, or a different tank/dps class? No. I'm still the same person with the same experience, and just as well suited to leading a group as when I'm in tank spec.

Yes, there are many stupid DPS players out there who don't know how to play their class, but the exact same goes for tanks and healers, which is why it's the person behind the keyboard that matters, not his class, role or gear level.

slafko's Avatar


slafko
04.05.2013 , 02:50 AM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by sripakdee View Post
What i find really interesting in this thread is that so many fail to realize the difference between taking point and being the leader.
Tanks lead by taking point.

You want to stay behind debating every CC and approach angle? Go right ahead. Don't mind me engaging that mob and killing a few of them while you type.

A group of capable players has no need for such debates and target marking. Do it on the fly.

Karkais's Avatar


Karkais
04.05.2013 , 02:56 AM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by slafko View Post
I'd rather wait for a capable one than be doomed to play with such a bad one.
If tank wants to perform a ready check it is a good sign that it is already a good one.

I would give slafko dislikes if this forum allowed it.
"Welcome to Dromund Kaas, where freedom goes to die and legends are forced on the galaxy."
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Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
04.05.2013 , 03:33 AM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by Karkais View Post
If tank wants to perform a ready check it is a good sign that it is already a good one.

I would give slafko dislikes if this forum allowed it.
If tank needs to perform ready check it's not a good sign... operations, yes, raid leader performing RC after cig/bathroom break is a nice feature. Tank, during FP which takes 20-40 minutes, not being able to see healers energy bar is not a good sign, 2 dps not being able to type 'wait, explain fight to me please' is not a good sign, and a healer unable to type 'stop for a sec' is even worse .

for 4 people before final or long fight/hard boss (like ones that wil kill you instant if you don't pay attention)
tank:R?
dps1:y
dps2:<jumps>
healer:go for it
is more then enouth.
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

slafko's Avatar


slafko
04.05.2013 , 03:40 AM | #75
A good tank performs ready check on the go: Keeping an eye on everyone's health and force/ammo status. For those who haven't noticed it by now - that information is clearly visible in the party screen. After that, one glimpse at the party chat to check that no one wrote "afk sec", "door brb", "dog needs to poop", "omg cat clawing at my face", "pizza incoming" and the team is ready to go. A good tank performs these checks while the last mob is busy getting killed, not by typing /rc and annoying people with a pop-up window.

Thank you.

Never_Hesitate's Avatar


Never_Hesitate
04.05.2013 , 03:44 AM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by Atramar View Post
for 4 people before final or long fight/hard boss (like ones that wil kill you instant if you don't pay attention)
tank:R?
dps1:y
dps2:<jumps>
healer:go for it
is more then enouth.
The situation I get is:

me(tank): rdy?
...
...
...
dps1: +
...
...
...
and 1 min passed no reaction from the heal or 2nd dps (happens a lot of times)
T3-M4 - Lvl 60 Chars:
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Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
04.05.2013 , 03:46 AM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by Never_Hesitate View Post
The situation I get is:

me(tank): rdy?
...
...
...
dps1: +
...
...
...
and 1 min passed no reaction from the heal or 2nd dps (happens a lot of times)
How is readycheck going to change that? you see him moving around not typing to wait = he's good to go.
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

slafko's Avatar


slafko
04.05.2013 , 04:38 AM | #78
Maybe he wants a Windows-type ready check.

"Are you ready? YES/NO"
"Are you absolutely sure you're ready? YES/NO"
"By clicking OK you agree that you are ready. OK/CANCEL"
"Please confirm your previous selection. APPLY/CANCEL"

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
04.05.2013 , 04:59 AM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by slafko View Post
Maybe he wants a Windows-type ready check.

"Are you ready? YES/NO"
"Are you absolutely sure you're ready? YES/NO"
"By clicking OK you agree that you are ready. OK/CANCEL"
"Please confirm your previous selection. APPLY/CANCEL"
you forgot about link to 'terms and conditions of being ready' and extra check box 'I've read and accepted T&C'
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

Wolvereen's Avatar


Wolvereen
04.05.2013 , 05:09 AM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by Atramar View Post
for 4 people before final or long fight/hard boss (like ones that wil kill you instant if you don't pay attention)
tank:R?
dps1:y
dps2:<jumps>
healer:go for it
is more then enouth.
so where's the difference here to 3 green arrows in the group-window - besides the group-window will give me more precise information?