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Let's Talk Forum Rules

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veyl's Avatar


veyl
03.08.2013 , 05:56 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
I guess the short answer here is that if you have already attempted to dispute and if the dispute was denied then yes, the infraction will stand. We are looking to change the rules moving forward and not looking behind.
Infractions shouldn't have a "never" expiration to it, because that is simply ridiculous and it should be changed. Some of us are on the forums more often then others and there are those folks out there that will report a post just to be a ***** if someone says something they don't like.

Your three strike rule can easily be abused by people claiming to be "offended" by something when they're really not.

I hope you make the more appropriate decision here.

(On a side note: I'm not talking about infractions that are blatantly deserved. IE people racially // sexually harassing someone. I'm talking about infractions that have to do with trying to get a point across and you (the moderator) didn't appreciate it because it's negative feedback towards the development teams decisions. Instead, that feedback should be used as a wake up call. Many players here want this game to succeed and make a gigantic turn around, but if it's viewed that anything negative is just earning someone an infraction... this will not keep the paying subs here.)

EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
03.08.2013 , 06:10 PM | #12 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Quote: Originally Posted by veyl View Post
Infractions shouldn't have a "never" expiration to it, because that is simply ridiculous and it should be changed. Some of us are on the forums more often then others and there are those folks out there that will report a post just to be a ***** if someone says something they don't like.

Your three strike rule can easily be abused by people claiming to be "offended" by something when they're really not.

I hope you make the more appropriate decision here.

(On a side note: I'm not talking about infractions that are blatantly deserved. IE people racially // sexually harassing someone. I'm talking about infractions that have to do with trying to get a point across and you (the moderator) didn't appreciate it because it's negative feedback towards the development teams decisions. Instead, that feedback should be used as a wake up call. Many players here want this game to succeed and make a gigantic turn around, but if it's viewed that anything negative is just earning someone an infraction... this will not keep the paying subs here.)
Your concern over people claiming to be "offended" by something when they're not is something I wanted to touch on. Just because someone reports a post by no stretch means they are automatically warned or infracted. You would be surprised by the volume of posts that are reported that we "no action" as something which did not break any rules.

Also, there will not be a time where we simply warn or infract someone because they spoke negatively of our game or a developer as long as that remains constructive. This forum is a place for discussion, and that discussion will of course include things that are negative.

What we will not allow, and we will continue to action, is personal attacks against developers, but this rule is no different than anything else as we do not allow that kind of behavior between forum users. You are allowed to be negative as long as you remain respectful and we absolutely will use that feedback to pass on to our development team!
Eric Musco | Community Manager
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JPryde's Avatar


JPryde
03.08.2013 , 06:26 PM | #13
Do these rules not apply to the german forums, or is there any specific reason, why these rules are only available in english and not even linked in the german forums ?

The board rules posted over there, are dated from Nov. 2011.

I am just asking, as many german players were expecting that the german and french parts of the forums would turn into a lawless territory, with the two community managers gone.

But if you change the rules, you might want to at least tell the whole community about it.

(Or maybe I am to fast, and the text is currently being translated ?)
~~~ Macht Wächter ~~~
Vanjervalis Chain
Jhoira, Skarjis, Trântor, Ric-Xano, Sabri-torina, Tir-za, Shaina ...
We do not brake for Wookiees !

JadenGatekeeper's Avatar


JadenGatekeeper
03.08.2013 , 06:41 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Your concern over people claiming to be "offended" by something when they're not is something I wanted to touch on. Just because someone reports a post by no stretch means they are automatically warned or infracted. You would be surprised by the volume of posts that are reported that we "no action" as something which did not break any rules.

Also, there will not be a time where we simply warn or infract someone because they spoke negatively of our game or a developer as long as that remains constructive. This forum is a place for discussion, and that discussion will of course include things that are negative.

What we will not allow, and we will continue to action, is personal attacks against developers, but this rule is no different than anything else as we do not allow that kind of behavior between forum users. You are allowed to be negative as long as you remain respectful and we absolutely will use that feedback to pass on to our development team!
Actually, you did, several times. A former player of the game, a friend of mine, spoke out against changes you made, and he was infracted for speaking opinion, which was by no means offensive or an attack on the developers. He was given no justification for it other than he was infracted for speaking negatively of the game.
We Shot First

HomicidalWhales's Avatar


HomicidalWhales
03.08.2013 , 06:46 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by JadenGatekeeper View Post
Actually, you did, several times. A former player of the game, a friend of mine, spoke out against changes you made, and he was infracted for speaking opinion, which was by no means offensive or an attack on the developers. He was given no justification for it other than he was infracted for speaking negatively of the game.
Do you still communicate with your friend? He can email support at CommunitySupport@swtor.com. He can get in contact with Eric there, as he's the new Community Manager, and they can discuss what happened and what went wrong.

If this incidence happened a while back, it was probably Allison or Joveth who kept placing infractions on your friend. They're now long gone, so solving this with Eric is your friend's best bet. And seeing that you didn't say that he didn't appeal this before, it may give Eric good reason to help your buddy out.

Good luck.

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
03.08.2013 , 06:58 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Your concern over people claiming to be "offended" by something when they're not is something I wanted to touch on. Just because someone reports a post by no stretch means they are automatically warned or infracted. You would be surprised by the volume of posts that are reported that we "no action" as something which did not break any rules.
Having been on the forum from the beginning and being a heavy poster over most of that time... I can in fact say that there have been times where there was pretty clear inconsistency in forum moderation as it pertains to actioning. By this I mean that fairly benign or unintended offense in content in a thread post would be warned or infracted, where in the same thread clearly worse, sometimes significantly worse, content would be left unaddressed even when reported, and sometimes multiple times by the same forum member and multiple reports being done.

I understand that there is always a degree of subjectivity involved in forum moderation, and at the end of the day you and your staff make the final call. And in my personal experience the forum staff have always been very fair and professional in addressing appeals. But there have been consistency issues in the past. Some of this is probably simply a result of all the changes in staff, tightening of rules over time, the general nature of the forum membership, phase of the moon probably even gets a few swings into it, etc. But I just wanted to highlight that we as a community have gone through flucutations in consistency on the part of how forum rules have been enforced over the last year, with fairness and clarity being an ongoing issue from my perspective.

That said... I personally like the direction you are taking communications and forum management and I do have confidence in what you are endeavoring to do. So props to you and your team for your efforts!
sayonara SWTOR. I will miss the game, I will miss many players, I will NOT miss being lied to and deceived. I will not miss rookie level mistakes of epic proportions.

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
03.08.2013 , 07:07 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
All infractions are now worth 5 points each and suspensions will work as follows:

5 points - 3 day suspension
10 points - 7 day suspension
15 points - Permanent ban
One comment here....

The point scales have changed over time, and points used to expire in many cases (except for a really nasty infraction). So there are forum members with "odd" scores on their accounts compared to the point system you listed above (which I think has been in effect for sometime now... just the penalties are different).

Example: 3 points (with never expire on them). From the earlier days when you had different point scales and different rules on expirations of infractions.

Not sure how (or if) you intend to address this... but I wanted to point it out... as it does not fit well with your 5/10/15 thresholds and it's bound to trigger some issues for you in the future. Or, maybe not.
sayonara SWTOR. I will miss the game, I will miss many players, I will NOT miss being lied to and deceived. I will not miss rookie level mistakes of epic proportions.

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
03.08.2013 , 07:14 PM | #18
Moderators are human and are not immune to making mistakes, or acting based on emotion, though good ones try very hard not to, it is just inevitable at some point. I've been a moderator/admin on some large fansites (for free, not paid positions ) and I can tell you it is a very frustrating and draining job to do. There are always groups of people that are completely sure that you're taking sides/being hypocritical with one side while the other feels exactly the same way.
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

Pistols-GS's Avatar


Pistols-GS
03.08.2013 , 07:31 PM | #19
I probably should be taking notes in this thread, as I am guilty more times than not of said behavior.

However, for those who do not know me, I am simply not "ultra seriousing you" in replies.

My day job allows for much time to "play" on the forums, and sometimes when I see /facepalm posts, well it gets the better of me at times lol.

That said, I think the current Community Relations manager has made more of an impact than any other CM previously. Sometimes, just by posting in threads and interacting with the community, tends to create a positive rapport with the community (which I think Eric wants to do).

Anyhoo, thanks Eric for laying it out, appreciated.

Pistols Shield

<S Key To Victory>

Ansalem's Avatar


Ansalem
03.08.2013 , 08:00 PM | #20
I do wonder if the strict enforcement of these rules will affect accounts. Like if we get banned on forums will we be able to use cartel market or change subscription etc without trouble? Will we be blocked from being able to server transfer in the future etc?