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"grd plz"


ScytheEleven's Avatar


ScytheEleven
02.19.2013 , 09:48 PM | #81
I run a PT Pyro that is half DG, half campaign, and is optimized.

Since I do not have a threat dump, I always ask for guard at the start of the FP if the tank appears to be not as geared equally.

I always feel like a jerk asking for it, but I know if I don't get it, I'll pull off the tank. Like I said though, if the tank is geared, I won't ask. But I've been told numerous times by tanks that they want the guard on the healer. Oh well.

bbare's Avatar


bbare
02.19.2013 , 10:06 PM | #82
Quote: Originally Posted by ScytheEleven View Post
I run a PT Pyro that is half DG, half campaign, and is optimized.

Since I do not have a threat dump, I always ask for guard at the start of the FP if the tank appears to be not as geared equally.

I always feel like a jerk asking for it, but I know if I don't get it, I'll pull off the tank. Like I said though, if the tank is geared, I won't ask. But I've been told numerous times by tanks that they want the guard on the healer. Oh well.
DPS shouldn't feel bad for asking for a guard. You are only doing what you think is best for the group. DPS should always ask for a guard if they are unsure the tank can hold threat. I play a PT dps as well. I'm gonna request a guard to any tank, because I know there is no possible way the tank is going to keep up with my 3000 dps I pull out in the first 15 sec or so of a fight. With that guard, it means that I can go all out, which is very advantageous to the group. Don't think it as boasting or cocky behavior. You are only doing what is best for the group.
The Vanity Legacy

slafko's Avatar


slafko
02.20.2013 , 04:02 AM | #83
Quote: Originally Posted by Heezdedjim View Post
So if the first words out of your mouth are "guard me," then that just tells me that you suck, or you're trying to pimp strut your roxxor stats. That means you don't need it, or you don't deserve it. Either way, you're not getting it.
What if they say "Can i have guard, please?"

steave's Avatar


steave
02.20.2013 , 05:00 AM | #84
Quote: Originally Posted by Heezdedjim View Post
Those who know their job and how to do it, and who are geared enough to actually pull off a target that a tank means to hold aggro on, do not need guard to take whatever hits they get.
The extra armor you get from high level gear doesn't really reduce the incoming damage THAT much, so no, that would be dependent on the healer rather than the DPS gear. Either way, DPS pulling aggro means more work for the healer, which you should be trying to avoid - the tanks job is to hold aggro, and if you need to use a guard in order to do so, you should - otherwise there's no point in you being there, you're just a wasted spot in the group.

Ruskaeth's Avatar


Ruskaeth
02.20.2013 , 07:35 AM | #85
Shame that some tanks have no idea how to review who needs the guard. If all the tanks in the world would be perfect I'd understand this thread completely. However, too often the guard is the wrong player and that is in no way a personal insult to tanks who know what they are doing. In fact, it's been my pleasure to play with tanks who can manage not guarding anyone as a challenge. In operations where all the DPS pull 1900-2000 to the operations dummy. No guard. All went well.

Still, it's just a click or a button away to guard someone properly. It's not rocket science but some still miss it completely. I am happy that some tanks actually know what an aggro table is and what actually matters. I am even happier when these tanks have the uncanny ability to inspect players and recognize if the DPS has an optimized itemization. As a side note: I like it even more when DPSes pay enough attention to drop threat at the right time. If you don't know what I mean it's time you do some googling.

You were mistaken, the rant starts now:

Some despicable morons always guard the sentinel, never mind checking the gear of other players. Guard a sentinel with columi gear vs guarding a vanguard or any other class with BiS'ish gear. It suggests that many tanks do not have enough cells in their brains to inspect players and see that someone else can do more damage from melee or even from ranged position to be higher on the aggro table. They do not know that some classes can't drop threat. They do not know vanguard and vanguard's HiB critting to top the three button rotation critting. They always blame others for their own failures while gloating in their hard grinded 61 BH gear, something they could have achieved by learning to play and joining as proper guild in a shorter time.

Picking the one to guard in puggys is not class specific in any way. To top this off, I've seen a vanguard tanking from range. Awesome, really. Gree event and pugging three bosses has opened my eyes to the horror of random suck-*** tanks. Yes, the vanguard Xenoanalyst from range. We did heal everyone else through it. Surprisingly, the tank didn't need that much healing.

All in all, do not demonize asking for guard. Half the time someone asking for guard might be a douche, half the time it might be someone saving you from a wipe or just a good guy wanting to make things smooth. I have more tanks in ignore than any other class. Somehow, low skills of tank are often combined with either good nature and humor, which indicates that tank has a future. Then some other time, when the skills are bad and the tank is a douche, it tells me that tank has no future >>> ignore.

haliy's Avatar


haliy
02.20.2013 , 08:12 AM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by Ruskaeth View Post
I am happy that some tanks actually know what an aggro table is and what actually matters. I am even happier when these tanks have the uncanny ability to inspect players and recognize if the DPS has an optimized itemization. As a side note: I like it even more when DPSes pay enough attention to drop threat at the right time.
I guess i'm in the minority of the tanks who actually check gear before starting and know what force camouflage does with my sentinel.
MOSAIC - JEDI COVENANT
Guild Website
Haliy - 55 Sentinel ~ Windigo - 55 Shadow ~ Kája - 55 Sage
Vindeta - 55 Commando ~ Snapshote - 55 Operative

mikebevo's Avatar


mikebevo
02.20.2013 , 11:07 AM | #87
Quote: Originally Posted by Ruskaeth View Post
Shame that some tanks have no idea how to review who needs the guard.
All my dps toons are type 1 female bodies, all look delicate and fragile. I never get guarded even though they are all campaign, black hole and DG geared. I do my best to use aggro dumps, follow kill order and give the tank a chance to build aggro, so I am not really concerned about not being guarded. If I mess up and pull I know how to use defensive cooldown, dump aggro, pop a medpack and keep on burning.

However, I have found in the gree event, my character delicate looks has made me a target in the pvp areas. I have been attacked a number of times while doing the heroic. This has lead to my death more than once, but it has also lead to some really shocked attackers when I finished off the droid, and then hit defensive cooldowns and finished them off too. Commando with 100% health, that shot my infiltration shadow the entire time I was killing the three droids, must have been really shocked when I closed ground and took him down to 0 before I lost my final 10%.

Tanks don't have it any easier, there is no foolproof way to know who to guard in a PUG. Gear is obvious, but players abilities and knowledge of game mechanics are less likely to pull. I have been in HMFP and Operations where people are whispering to me excitedly they are pulling aggro from the tank like it is something to be extremely proud of. I, like most people, want to put out the highest dps numbers possible, but not at the determent of the group's progress. So when I pull aggro I feel it is the sign that I am playing badly.

Dzeniss's Avatar


Dzeniss
02.20.2013 , 12:12 PM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by bsbrad View Post
You always guard the person who is likely to pull the most threat of the tank. If you cannot figure that out by the first fight just guard the healer and be done with it.

Most likely the DPS with the best gear will pull off the tank the most although that is a big assumption as they may not know their rotations.

Plus pulling off a well geared sin may take some effort.
U just made one big mistakes with best gear or the most skilled. In gree event i was pulling aggro of bosses as sorcerer even if there was full 63 mara and full 63 sniper..I just felt 2powerful that moment

RandomXChance's Avatar


RandomXChance
02.20.2013 , 05:18 PM | #89
Quote: Originally Posted by Ruskaeth View Post
All in all, do not demonize asking for guard. Half the time someone asking for guard might be a douche, half the time it might be someone saving you from a wipe or just a good guy wanting to make things smooth. I have more tanks in ignore than any other class. .
At first I was sort of miffed by your rant, but then became amused. You realize we are talking about the flip side of the same issue? I was laughing at the way many DPS ask for guard without any checking of who else is in the raid and are they really the one who needs it most. You are talking about lazy tanks that just throw guard on whoever for no good reason and without inspecting. Just had this in Xenoanalyst II fight on HM 16 man. Tank put guard on marauder with most HP. On inspection, 2 snipers and another marauder were far more a threat due to good optimization and higher damage. Deciding who to guard involves some understanding of how all the classes work and that is something that takes time to learn.

Lazy and poor playing abound, its is just most apparent when the tank is guilty and most common (maybe just by sheer numbers) in DPS.

steave's Avatar


steave
02.20.2013 , 09:21 PM | #90
Quote: Originally Posted by RandomXChance View Post
At first I was sort of miffed by your rant, but then became amused. You realize we are talking about the flip side of the same issue? I was laughing at the way many DPS ask for guard without any checking of who else is in the raid and are they really the one who needs it most. You are talking about lazy tanks that just throw guard on whoever for no good reason and without inspecting. Just had this in Xenoanalyst II fight on HM 16 man. Tank put guard on marauder with most HP. On inspection, 2 snipers and another marauder were far more a threat due to good optimization and higher damage. Deciding who to guard involves some understanding of how all the classes work and that is something that takes time to learn.

Lazy and poor playing abound, its is just most apparent when the tank is guilty and most common (maybe just by sheer numbers) in DPS.
Well, don't be too quick to judge. It's far from uncommon for the inspect to bug out and show you you own gear instead, so at that point you only have HP and class to go by. If that happened, I would have done the same.