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Repair costs vs Pugs


Loki_'s Avatar


Loki_
02.18.2013 , 01:24 PM | #1
I would like to start by saying that the repair costs in guild runs will hardly bother me as guild run wipes are usually kept to a minimum due to the fact I lead our guilds raids and are funded by guild repairs anyway.

I am the type of player that likes to help pugs and other guilds learn and develop their tactics on boss fights, when TFB HM came out I did not care about spending 5 hours from midnight till 5am on an alt char wiping over and over until I got a pug group to learn the tactics, this meant they could then teach others and pug groups for raids that people usually would not attempt then began to happen on our server.

After spending 3 hours in EC HM yesterday wiping on zorn and toth then firebrand and storm caller trying to teach people how to improve I end up with a total repair cost around the 350k mark.

Now I'm faced with the situation do I stop helping others with my alts and only raid with guild so I do not waste all my in game funds on repairs ? This to me seems a rather selfish thing to do .... the raiding community on my server will only lose if I chose this option, but its getting to the point where I am almost forced to do this.

Bioware devs ... are you trying to close the door for pug raids and inexperienced players with these new costs ?

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
02.18.2013 , 03:16 PM | #2
+1

It has been posited that BW is trying to add a money sink to the game to combat inflation by removing currency from circulation.

If this is the actual purpose behind the repair cost increases, surely there is an alternative that will have the same effect? Way back when, as a new player I would never have discovered that I enjoyed end-game raiding were there not helpful people that were willing to spend time teaching me as I fumbled my way through HM FPs and Ops.

The higher repair costs means that only organized guilds with adequate funds will be able to do progression raiding. The "pros" who were willing to help out pugs and get them better at the game will dry up unless this is addressed.

slafko's Avatar


slafko
02.19.2013 , 02:08 AM | #3
I've stopped teaming up with random people on my sentinel and vanguard. Still tank pug fp's and the occassional easier operation on my shadow, but that's only because I exit combat and run away to avoid a death. I'm not inclined to pay a huge amount for my repairs on top of spending hours teaching random people the tactics.

Thundergulch's Avatar


Thundergulch
02.19.2013 , 11:23 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
The higher repair costs means that only organized guilds with adequate funds will be able to do progression raiding.
I'm sorry but you're SO wrong.
All people have to do is daily quests.
1 round of Ilum, Black Hole and Section X will net you a ton of credits, not to mention vendoring/GTN all the stuff that drops.
People really need to stop crying about repairs when it's so easy to offset the cost.

zeshakha's Avatar


zeshakha
02.19.2013 , 11:31 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Thundergulch View Post
I'm sorry but you're SO wrong.
All people have to do is daily quests.
1 round of Ilum, Black Hole and Section X will net you a ton of credits, not to mention vendoring/GTN all the stuff that drops.
People really need to stop crying about repairs when it's so easy to offset the cost.
So all we have to do is spend 2 hours so we can get the money to help people we don't know through content because we feel like being nice?

Sounds perfectly reasonable.. this is the reason my guild has stopped pugging pretty much everything now. No reason to waste our credits due to group finder or some guild that is struggling to clear content. Excellent way to improve community among the servers.
Jung Ma <Night's Radiance>
Hirse- Sage healer | Zeshakha- Vanguard tank
Joleer- Scoundrel healer | Ortamek- Sentinel
Zaia- Shadow tank

Thundergulch's Avatar


Thundergulch
02.19.2013 , 11:35 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by zeshakha View Post
So all we have to do is spend 2 hours so we can get the money to help people we don't know through content because we feel like being nice?

Sounds perfectly reasonable.. this is the reason my guild has stopped pugging pretty much everything now. No reason to waste our credits due to group finder or some guild that is struggling to clear content. Excellent way to improve community among the servers.
I'm talking about repairs in general, doing pugs is your choice.. .personally I've never liked pugs.
those 3 daily sections don't take 2 hours.
can all be done in about an hour or a little over an hour total.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
02.19.2013 , 11:57 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Thundergulch View Post
I'm talking about repairs in general, doing pugs is your choice.. .personally I've never liked pugs.
those 3 daily sections don't take 2 hours.
can all be done in about an hour or a little over an hour total.
You sort of glossed over my whole point, didn't you?

So you've never liked pugs. Then my complaint doesn't really apply to you, now does it?

The players who previously were willing to run pugs because they liked helping other people aren't going to do that anymore because they'll be throwing money down the drain.

Edit: I'm pretty much on the same page as zeshakha. I have a guild, we have funds for our own raids. We used to bring pugs in. We don't any more. Savvy?

Thundergulch's Avatar


Thundergulch
02.19.2013 , 12:05 PM | #8
seems like you didn't read the part of your post that I quoted.
try reading that again.

Khevar's Avatar


Khevar
02.19.2013 , 12:24 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Thundergulch View Post
seems like you didn't read the part of your post that I quoted.
try reading that again.
Didn't read it? I wrote it.
Quote: Originally Posted by Khevar View Post
... The higher repair costs means that only organized guilds with adequate funds will be able to do progression raiding. ...
So let's take this statement. I'm saying that if you're not in an organized guild, and you don't have adequate funds, you won't be able to do progression raiding. "Able" to is perhaps too strong a word. "Much harder" would perhaps be more accurate.

In progression raiding the group is expected to wipe as it gets familiar with the boss and learns how to coordinate with the group. As the group gets better, it wipes less and less. In a guild, the same group of people will often be doing the progression raiding together, until the fights are mastered and bring other people in.

In a guild, there is a guild bank, and people contribute to it.

If you're NOT in a guild, and you want to do progression raiding, you have to pug it.

The MAIN point I'm trying to make is that the higher repair costs means that the experienced players that USED to help out pugs WON'T want to waste the credits.
Quote: Originally Posted by Thundergulch View Post
I'm talking about repairs in general, doing pugs is your choice.. .personally I've never liked pugs. ...
Oh Snap! You don't like pugs. And you're talking about repairs in general. I'm talking about repairs during progression raids while pugging.

OMG! It's almost like we're talking about completely different things!

Edit: It also sounds like you didn't read the title of this thread.

TheNahash's Avatar


TheNahash
02.19.2013 , 03:54 PM | #10
Although this has been mentioned quite a few of times since they introduced the higher repair costs, for some reason your post resonated with me - mainly because you're not crying about how your guild is sooo poor it's going to affect your progression.

I don't really care much either way, because I have the credits for the repairs and I get enough money from crafting and selling that i don't have to worry about the repair costs even with pugs, but it is a valid point that people who pug the "hardest" parts of the end-game content will choose to avoid pugging (and therefore helping out new people, even when that's not their intention) if it means that they'll have to pay up to a million for repairs for 2-3 raids.

If for some reason (which I don't quite get, but it's not my call anyway) Bioware thinks that repair costs should be higher than what they've been until now, they can choose to keep them at the same level while at the same time doing one of two things:
1. Make repairs in raids cost less than the rest of the content or give much higher credit rewards for killing mobs in them (which doesn't really seem doable or even logical but you never know...). They could even make the Legacy Repair Droid repair stuff for much lower prices, thus promoting a legacy perk and helping people who raid at the same time.
2. Make the rewards from completing PVE dailies and weeklies significantly higher, so that people will have an additional reason to actually kill those bosses and not give up after the 2nd-3rd try.

Again, I think the best solution would be to lower the repair costs in general - they don't even have to be as low as they were, but definitely lower than what they are right now. The game should facilitate grouping up with people even if they're not from your guild. And that would benefit both the guilds that would be able to find new recruits easier than waiting for someone to fill out an application on their site and the pugs that would have an easier time finding and maintaining a group that wouldn't give up after the second wipe because they wouldn't want to spend all their credits repairing.

As someone else pointed out, you can make credits very easily in the game, but on the other hand that should be a personal preference not something that you MUST do in order to be able to even take part in end-game content.