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On "Need" loot rolls.


shyninja's Avatar


shyninja
02.10.2013 , 03:36 AM | #1
Just a question on "need" loot rolls. Do you roll need when the loot matches your class or when it matches your class and spec? For ex. two Bounty hunters/Troopers #1 is Tank specced for the FP #2 is DPS specced for the FP. The item being rolled for is a major upgrade for both of them (Primary stats Aim & Endurance. But the secondary stats seem to be more towards the DPS. Can the Tank still roll a "need" since its an upgrade and can equip it?

I understand general rules like always greeding for loot rolls for companions but , Class vs Class & Spec seems to be a grey area for me. Met people on with varying opinion on both sides.

Ex. of arguments ive heard on both sides.
"Field Respecs make it so you can change your specs" -Class
"The Loot Roll Item is tailor made for the spec I'm running for the FP. Secondary Stats matter." Class&Spec
"Some people like to DPS with a little added endurance and defense." -Class
" Why would you roll on something when it's off spec for you?" Class&Spec
" The Primary stat is still an upgrade for me and I can equip it " -Class

Icestar's Avatar


Icestar
02.10.2013 , 04:24 AM | #2
Bioware needs to change this anarchy lootsystem where everyone can roll on everything.

The basic rule is that if you can equip it and benefit from it (most with a IQ of 35 or more understands that you let the tank have the tank gear and healer healinggear and so on) the item is yours to needroll on if your character is in the instance can use it. If the item will be used in some other way like for a complanion, to sell it, to eat it, to let it collect dust in the bank the greed roll should be used, or pass.

Some guilds tend to set up special lootrules that are based on progression, a tank benefits more from having tank items and healer healer items.

This has gotten out of hand completely, last night I got kicked from a team by simply asking politely why a pistol using merc took a lightsaber with needroll. I got called lots of names and ofcourse I reported it for Bioware to let them see how bad the community has become.

Need rolls has to be blocked form players that cant handle the difference of need/greed/pass

So many other MMOs has done it with great success, why should The old Republic still live in the stoneage when it is such a simple thing to change.

After all we all wants to get along and get new friends, arguing about a unclear lootsystem are creating more war then peace. I know that for a fact since launch.

Swaption's Avatar


Swaption
02.10.2013 , 04:32 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by shyninja View Post
Just a question on "need" loot rolls. Do you roll need when the loot matches your class or when it matches your class and spec? For ex. two Bounty hunters/Troopers #1 is Tank specced for the FP #2 is DPS specced for the FP. The item being rolled for is a major upgrade for both of them (Primary stats Aim & Endurance. But the secondary stats seem to be more towards the DPS. Can the Tank still roll a "need" since its an upgrade and can equip it?

I understand general rules like always greeding for loot rolls for companions but , Class vs Class & Spec seems to be a grey area for me. Met people on with varying opinion on both sides.

Ex. of arguments ive heard on both sides.
"Field Respecs make it so you can change your specs" -Class
"The Loot Roll Item is tailor made for the spec I'm running for the FP. Secondary Stats matter." Class&Spec
"Some people like to DPS with a little added endurance and defense." -Class
" Why would you roll on something when it's off spec for you?" Class&Spec
" The Primary stat is still an upgrade for me and I can equip it " -Class
If a piece is a major upgrade for both a tank and a dps in a flashpoint, there is something seriously wrong with their gear (As fps only drop 51/56 xeno/exo pieces). If the gearis for lower levels (sub 50), secondary stats matter less and it becomes less clear.

Responses to other points:

-Field Respec: you can roll need only on your current spec and role fufilled in the group (if you join as dps, you roll as dps). Needing for offspec without group consent is ninja looting (unless you are the only one of your class, though this holds less for endgame items)
- Secondary stats: As you get to end game content, you will realize the importance of secondary stats. You should only roll for the secondary stats of your class. If a dps wants "extra endurance and defense" after hitting level 50 they should be kicked.
-If certain mods are an upgrade needing is okay only if 1.) It is your mainstat and 2.) there is not someone else in the group who is more suited for the item
Kgu - Sniper | Kzg - Mercenary | K-g - Marauder

Helig's Avatar


Helig
02.10.2013 , 04:38 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Icestar View Post
Need rolls has to be blocked form players that cant handle the difference of need/greed/pass
Eh, how do you propose we do that?
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
02.10.2013 , 04:53 AM | #5
Part of the problem is that SOME people will always need for their companion, for their offspecs, for their alts (legacy gear) for 1 mod even if the rest of the piece is useless to them.
Typhojem Legacy, Jung Ma server
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Icestar's Avatar


Icestar
02.10.2013 , 05:32 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
Eh, how do you propose we do that?
Bioware can simply implement a system that allows those characters that can equip the item and benefit from it be able to roll need.

The other classes will be able to greed on the item. If a item contain a mod that someone in the team wants then the best way to get it is by using communication, if the mod is reasonable for the character I am sure he/she will recieve it.

Many posts here on the forum simply consists of players not knowing how to use the different need/greed/pass options, and for that I refer to the search function. You will find thousands of posts and hundreds of threads regarding the flawed lootdistribution in The old Republic.

If you have a specific question regarding this please write and I will try to explain

Helig's Avatar


Helig
02.10.2013 , 06:24 AM | #7
Suppose that's fair. I've seen similar propositions.

I asked because you weren't very clear - First, I thought you want to segregate players into "those who can need" and "those who can't".
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

wreckdum's Avatar


wreckdum
02.10.2013 , 07:20 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by shyninja View Post
Just a question on "need" loot rolls. Do you roll need when the loot matches your class or when it matches your class and spec? For ex. two Bounty hunters/Troopers #1 is Tank specced for the FP #2 is DPS specced for the FP. The item being rolled for is a major upgrade for both of them (Primary stats Aim & Endurance. But the secondary stats seem to be more towards the DPS. Can the Tank still roll a "need" since its an upgrade and can equip it?

I understand general rules like always greeding for loot rolls for companions but , Class vs Class & Spec seems to be a grey area for me. Met people on with varying opinion on both sides.

Ex. of arguments ive heard on both sides.
"Field Respecs make it so you can change your specs" -Class
"The Loot Roll Item is tailor made for the spec I'm running for the FP. Secondary Stats matter." Class&Spec
"Some people like to DPS with a little added endurance and defense." -Class
" Why would you roll on something when it's off spec for you?" Class&Spec
" The Primary stat is still an upgrade for me and I can equip it " -Class
This is a no brainer.....
First, your example makes it clear that everyone understands the diffrence between dps and tank gear. So lets carry on with that perspective.
Dps item drops
If the dps rolls need, the off spec person rolls greed or pass. Leave it for them.
If the dps rolls greed, the off spec is courteous and asks if rolling for off spec is OK. Other courteous party members say "sure".
Its so simple. Unfortunetly not all groups have courteous people in them. But, if you follow those easy rules, you are the better person.

steave's Avatar


steave
02.10.2013 , 08:14 AM | #9
While leveling, this is less clear since there aren't any items with defense/shield/absorb available on them until later levels, and even then you need to craft it unless you run a ton of FPs since they're still not available from vendors (including commendation vendors) until about 40 (belsavis). Main spec always have priority though, so if a item with tank stats drops the tank always have priority, but if you're in the level range where tanking stats aren't available the tanks don't have any choice but to wear "DPS" gear as well, so they can roll on everything too.

Icestar's Avatar


Icestar
02.10.2013 , 09:00 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by steave View Post
While leveling, this is less clear since there aren't any items with defense/shield/absorb available on them until later levels, and even then you need to craft it unless you run a ton of FPs since they're still not available from vendors (including commendation vendors) until about 40 (belsavis). Main spec always have priority though, so if a item with tank stats drops the tank always have priority, but if you're in the level range where tanking stats aren't available the tanks don't have any choice but to wear "DPS" gear as well, so they can roll on everything too.
The problem with ToR loosystem is not the different needrolls that the characters from the same class do, the BIG problem is players from other classes needing on items they canīt use.

Communication solve almost every time if a piece of heavy armor str head with defensive stats drops and both a dps jugg and a tank jugg are present. The team will let the tank specced juggernaut have the item, that is pure common sense.

The problem occur when the trooper for example in the team decides that the heavy armor str head is equal his and he has to have it and presses need. The trooper have no use for it, he cant let a companion have it, the only thing he can do is either sell it or let it collect dust in the bank,

This has been discussed so many times in so many threads that Bioware really has to let us know if they are working on it, player feedback is important they say. The community screams for a answer regarding this in hundreds of threads and thousands of posts.

Let us know once and for all if we are preaching to deaf ears here, please!!