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Add more threat to guardians!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Add more threat to guardians!

thasensei's Avatar


thasensei
01.22.2013 , 10:18 AM | #21
Just to add a couple tips for anyone that happens to wander across this thread...

One strategy is to saber throw the mob standing away from the group, then leap to the group of baddies. Follow that with a Sweep and you've got enough threat to burn most normal/strong mobs. Keep in mind that this isn't always a great idea - some mobs will leap to YOU after your saber throw, and then you're in a sticky situation. But that's just part of learning the fights.

Another tip that might be helpful is to save your AoE taunt. Let the troopers/slingers with the crazy AoE do the job of gathering the mobs up, then taunt them after they've done the threat building for you. If you pay attention, you can AoE taunt before your DPS actually take damage and you use their high damage AoE to build threat.

When chaos breaks loose, keep an eye on health meters. A well timed Guardian Leap can buy you a couple seconds to figure out which baddie is shooting your DPS.

caveslug's Avatar


caveslug
01.24.2013 , 02:31 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by thasensei View Post
Just to add a couple tips for anyone that happens to wander across this thread...

One strategy is to saber throw the mob standing away from the group, then leap to the group of baddies. Follow that with a Sweep and you've got enough threat to burn most normal/strong mobs. Keep in mind that this isn't always a great idea - some mobs will leap to YOU after your saber throw, and then you're in a sticky situation. But that's just part of learning the fights.

Another tip that might be helpful is to save your AoE taunt. Let the troopers/slingers with the crazy AoE do the job of gathering the mobs up, then taunt them after they've done the threat building for you. If you pay attention, you can AoE taunt before your DPS actually take damage and you use their high damage AoE to build threat.

When chaos breaks loose, keep an eye on health meters. A well timed Guardian Leap can buy you a couple seconds to figure out which baddie is shooting your DPS.
Tips are great,

The main issue is DPS 99.9999% of the time, as soon as you saber throw a mob. The marauder spazzes out and leaps to the nearest Champion mob, and proceeds to unload his manhood on it. Or its a bounty hunter who lets loose on a pack of mobs as soon as you leap in, so when you finally land on that one mob. The other 4 are half way to the BH, to slap him in the face.

My curse as of late is the rash of sorcs / assassins, who think their knock back is there AoE. I really do /facepalm ever time I get all the mobs together and they proceed to knock them out of groups AoE.
#1 reply to all PvP threads.....L2P

Wanchope's Avatar


Wanchope
02.01.2013 , 02:23 PM | #23
I thought I would add a few thoughts since I run a guardian tank a lot. I agree it can be a bit of a challenge, but I think that is what makes it fun. Anyways, here is what works for me.

1- I run a hybrid spec. 17/24/0. I like overhead slash a lot more then guardian slash and having Force Sweep as a free ability helps a lot. I also take 1 point of Force rush. Yes, force rush. Result is that I crit on something like 50% or more of my blade storms (or dispatch), which helps a lot with threat on bosses. You give up a bit of the ability to control large mobs (although Awe CD is reduced to make up for it a bit), but I have never had that be an issue in the Ops I run (and I've run them all). If the op is wiping on trash, the problem is bigger then the tanks ability to hold threat..... that's what CCs are for.

2- Put guard on the biggest DPSer in the group if they keep pulling threat.

3- Make sure your taunts easily accessible. I use the "G" key personally.

4- Don't try to hold threat on everything. Thats not your job and you can't really do it even if you want to. DPS is going to have to be able to handle themselves against trash and should be killing weak to strong as others have pointed out. Just worry about the big ones.

5- Switch targets occasionally if you need to. Get threat on one guy, then switch targets, attack and taunt somebody else for a GCD or two, then switch back. Then force sweep them both while they attack you.

6- Make sure you have target of target enabled on your screen. Watch it closely on bosses and in important pulls. If you see you lost threat, use your taunt immediately. You can usually get threat back before the boss even gets an attack off.

7- Make sure folks know what their threat dump is and are using it if you are having problems. The best tanks, no matter what class, will occasionally lose threat to a well geared gunslinger who knows his rotation and hits a few big crits. Same goes for other DPS classes as well. Heck, my biggest threat puller is another guardian.... he is Vigilance spec with all BIS gear and sometimes just hammers out damage on those MS procs.

Hope that helps a bit for somebody.

Hoodling's Avatar


Hoodling
02.05.2013 , 11:18 AM | #24
I'd really like to see Bioware fix the Guardian threat, because it's really bad. And as other people have mentioned here in this thread, so is the damage output (as a tank). It's simply sad to see such an iconic class being broken.

I'm the GM of a raiding guild, and we've had a lot of problems based on the fact that most of our tanks have been Guardians. It's a popular class (Why wouldn't it be, right?), so there's a lot of Guardians about. The very best of the best barely scrape by, and the rest are quite frankly a problem to their raid group. I'm talking about scenarios where you have four DPSers able to pull 1800-2000 DPS on their own (5-10 min ops dummy parse), and doing even more DPS in an actual raid where you have all armor debuffs, etc. Naturally, we make the DPSers dump aggro religiously every time their ability is off cooldown, but in many bossfights that's still not enough. Especially where bosses reset aggro. With two tanks in the group, there's only two guards to go around, and there's four DPS! I could go on and on, but I think we all get the picture.

The problem lies with the Guardian tanks' threat, and everyone who's tried playing a Guardian and another tank class knows this. Even mediocre Vanguards and Shadows can manage to keep aggro in most situations, but like I said, it takes an extraordinarily good Guardian to do the same, and it's still hard work keeping the threat up. Where other tanks can do without using taunts in their rotation, a Guardian can't. I have a Guardian and a Shadow tank myself, and there's a world of difference between the two. The Shadow's threat is a lot better even though my Guardian has better gear.

I seriously hope Bioware does something about the Guardian soon, because they're in dire need of an overhaul. A good start would be to streamline the skills a bit. Certain strikes (like Slash) are next to useless. Other skills, like Opportune Strike and Pommel Strike might as well be combined. Guardian Slash needs a lower cooldown, and the fact that you need 5 stacks of Sunder Armor (to make it an AoE) and Force Sweep only adds 4 is just annoying. Hilt Strike has a 1min cooldown, simply because it's a stun (I presume). Guardians could really use a second "high threat" ability, but since Hilt Strike is a stun, it would break PvP if Bioware were to lower the cooldown to something like 8-15 sec. It's a mess!

I'm not too happy about the Vigilance DPS either (which is not the topic of this thread, I know). I can do about 1675 DPS (5-10min ops dummy parse) max, in fully tweaked 61 gear with 63 hilt (which is plain bad compared to Sentinel/Commando/Gunslinger/etc.). Considering the fact that Guardians actually have an armor debuff should make it one of the classes that actually performs better than others on an ops dummy. Again, I'm presuming any changes made to improve Vigilance DPS would break PvP, so of course, and as usual, the PvE aspect of the class suffers.

People keep telling me Sentinels and Gunslingers being "pure" DPS classes should do more DPS. But that's not mentioned in the advanced class selection, is it? I wanted to be DPS with a lightsaber. Not dualweilding, not double-bladed, just one single lightsaber, because that's what I think is cool. So I chose Guardian DPS because of that. Who knew I'd end up shooting myself in the foot. They do lower DPS than Sentinels, they don't have Inspiration and they can't CC. What's the benefit of having a Guardian in a raid group again? Having a 10 sec tank backup in case of emergency? I can't think of much, to be honest. This is why I decided to make my Guardian a tank, and-low and behold-they suck at that too! Pretty please with sugar on top, do something, Bioware!

SentinelDranoel's Avatar


SentinelDranoel
02.08.2013 , 05:44 PM | #25
]
Quote: Originally Posted by Wanchope View Post
I thought I would add a few thoughts since I run a guardian tank a lot. I agree it can be a bit of a challenge, but I think that is what makes it fun. Anyways, here is what works for me.

1- I run a hybrid spec. 17/24/0. I like overhead slash a lot more then guardian slash and having Force Sweep as a free ability helps a lot. I also take 1 point of Force rush. Yes, force rush. Result is that I crit on something like 50% or more of my blade storms (or dispatch), which helps a lot with threat on bosses. You give up a bit of the ability to control large mobs (although Awe CD is reduced to make up for it a bit), but I have never had that be an issue in the Ops I run (and I've run them all). If the op is wiping on trash, the problem is bigger then the tanks ability to hold threat..... that's what CCs are for.

2- Put guard on the biggest DPSer in the group if they keep pulling threat.

3- Make sure your taunts easily accessible. I use the "G" key personally.

4- Don't try to hold threat on everything. Thats not your job and you can't really do it even if you want to. DPS is going to have to be able to handle themselves against trash and should be killing weak to strong as others have pointed out. Just worry about the big ones.

5- Switch targets occasionally if you need to. Get threat on one guy, then switch targets, attack and taunt somebody else for a GCD or two, then switch back. Then force sweep them both while they attack you.

6- Make sure you have target of target enabled on your screen. Watch it closely on bosses and in important pulls. If you see you lost threat, use your taunt immediately. You can usually get threat back before the boss even gets an attack off.

7- Make sure folks know what their threat dump is and are using it if you are having problems. The best tanks, no matter what class, will occasionally lose threat to a well geared gunslinger who knows his rotation and hits a few big crits. Same goes for other DPS classes as well. Heck, my biggest threat puller is another guardian.... he is Vigilance spec with all BIS gear and sometimes just hammers out damage on those MS procs.

Hope that helps a bit for somebody.

The first person I have seen in these forums who uses the exact same formula I use.
1. I don't run a hybrid build because I like guardian slash. I have used a hybrid build with a Warrior and I can see why one would want too.
2. IF they keep pulling threat. So many people make the mistake of assuming that a sentinel/gunslinger/commando will always pull threat. It depends on the player. I think everything is situational.
4. I agree with this so much. If you are pure DPS, you can take normals and solo a strong. I am not going to worry about holding agro for you. Throughout the entire game you fight 1 strong and two normals, a DPS will be alright.
5. I notice alot of people don't do this. They tank in one spot. In COH, I used to run around gathering agro and kiting. This is where the weakness in gathering agro in this game shows itself for some people I guess. I think it makes the gameplay more dynamic, all the mobs are normally spread out. If I know I have agro on some toons, I switch to grab agro on another. I do not need to try and kill them, DPS would be faster at that than me anyway.
and the Force beat generic Swords and Magic any day. 8/26/14 That was my old signature but after RotHC, I went back to superheroes and swords and magic. Now waiting on Dragon Age and a SWTOR story expac for my Bioware fix