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So. Ninjas yea?


johnhughthom's Avatar


johnhughthom
01.31.2013 , 04:36 PM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by mikebevo View Post
My main is a healer and I don't tell anyone how to play, nor do I care unless someone is stealing or abusing someone else in the group. Then I don't care what role they are playing.
I certainly didn't mean to imply all healers and tanks behave that way, indeed the majority of both classes I have played with have been great to group with.

Still, I have come across a number of healers who have told other players they won't heal them for perceived poor play or insults. I've never heard a dps say 'I'm not going to fulfil my role in the group by not attacking enemies' or a tank say 'I'm not going to use my aggro abilities, and turn off my tanking form', so why do some healers think it's cool to withdraw healing from someone they don't like?

Like I said, not trying to tar all with the same brush, I've a 50 commando healer and sawbones scoundrel myself.

Totaltrash's Avatar


Totaltrash
01.31.2013 , 04:43 PM | #92
This problem can be solved quite easily:

1. Everyone needs on everything all the time and lets the RNG roll decide who gets the item.
2. Tada! No more Ninjas.

(Of course, a new loot system that rewards each player individually would be much preferred)

Liam_Smith's Avatar


Liam_Smith
01.31.2013 , 08:38 PM | #93
I don't usually post, but I've been browsing this thread off and on for the past couple of days... I've seen 'loot ninjas' in a few PUGs, but I'm one of those that very rarely rolls need or greed on anything; my Sorc healer is geared enough to run the flashpoints and hard modes that I like to run, so I usually just let everyone else have a go at it... I've even told several groups, when they bring up the loot rules, 'I'm passing on everything; you guys have fun'...

However, I've also been on the receiving end of anti-ninja rage: I was running with a PUG in Foundry and a chest piece with Willpower stats popped up... I was either a fresh 50, or just under 50, and the stats on the chest were an improvement on what I was wearing at the time, so I chose 'Need'...

I was told that piece wasn't for my spec... I explained that it boosted my Willpower and another stat (Crit, I think), which my spec uses...

I was vote kicked for being a loot ninja, even though I don't think there was another Inquisitor in the group...
Prophecy of the Five
The Vosh Legacy
Liamnor Vosh - 50 Sorcerer Healer
Akarr Vosh - 50 Carnage Marauder
Banaaj Vosh - 41 Assassin Tank

TimAlien's Avatar


TimAlien
01.31.2013 , 09:55 PM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by Athena-Nike View Post
I want to change the rolls to 1-49 for greed, 50-100 for need, 75-100 for class specific need rolls (assassin rolling for a double lightsaber, sniper rolling for a sniper rifle etc...) and 50-100 for all others. At least give us a better chance at getting an item we actually NEED over some idiot rolling need on an item he wants
This is the best idea ever IMHO. Priority is what we need. If there is a drop "Willpower lightsaber" then Inquisitors (not just Sorcs but Assassins too) get 50-100 if they press Need, other class categories (warriors / bh / agents) get 1-100 roll.
So with this system you just can't blame anyone for ninja.

P.S. And ofc I respect people who ask before they press "need". Be polite.

SnoggyMack's Avatar


SnoggyMack
01.31.2013 , 10:51 PM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by Icestar View Post
Then you have missunderstood my point of view. I only want Bioware to restrict those that cant use items on their character to roll need, if you can actually wear it and benefit from it then I vote yes.

I would gladly lose roll to someone in the team that can wear the item and benefit from it then to someone that can not and vendor it for cash.
sigh. You're not thinking this through. Which is odd since you've been so very vocal on various ninja loot threads.

Here's the thing. Your proposed solution would restrict people to being only able to roll "need" on items they can use.

But opening the game up to dual spec, means those restrictions go away.

And suddenly all those "jerks" that you've railed against in dozens of posts will not be restricted from rolling need on items. Perpetuating the whole ninja loot problem you've been trying to solve. And the real kicker is, they may just say they're rolling for an offspec, but there's no way to prove it. You'll get tons of people rolling for companions still, or rolling for those greedy purposes of selling the item. But there'll be no way to actually even debate the issue anymore because they can just say they're rolling for their other spec.

It's really kind of blowing my mind that you would read through all of those other ninja loot threads, read all of those sob stories about people and their experiences with ninjas, and then somehow believe that people would be forthright and honest about their "need" for an item in a dual spec world.

It's crazy. Dual spec opens the game up to far more rampant ninja looting. How does that jibe with all of your other posts on the topic of ninjas?
Snoggy Mack
My Blog
My quote: "All the other kids with the pumped up Sith, you better run, better run, faster than my blaster"

Icestar's Avatar


Icestar
02.01.2013 , 12:37 AM | #96
Quote: Originally Posted by SnoggyMack View Post
sigh. You're not thinking this through. Which is odd since you've been so very vocal on various ninja loot threads.

Here's the thing. Your proposed solution would restrict people to being only able to roll "need" on items they can use.

But opening the game up to dual spec, means those restrictions go away.
Sorry mate, you still dont understand. How can you actually say that ninjalooting will increase when the only ones that can roll need are the characters that can use the item? Taking a item that you can use and benefit from is not ninjalooting.

This will eliminate all jedis from needing on counsular items, all troopers from needing on smuggler items and so on.

Regarding dualspecc, this has been asked for by both me and the community since launch. It will not increase ninjalooting by itself because as it is right now everyone can need on everything so it is no way that implementing dualspecc can increase anything.

The ONLY class that will benefit from this is the trooper class since all companions use aim and heavy armor but that is fine with me because that is only 2 out of 16 advanced classes.

My suggestion will not increase ninjalooting in any way, it will be a good step to decrease players taking items randomly and benefit the community by giving items to their characters that they can use themselves.

steave's Avatar


steave
02.01.2013 , 01:34 AM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by SnoggyMack View Post
sigh. You're not thinking this through. Which is odd since you've been so very vocal on various ninja loot threads.

Here's the thing. Your proposed solution would restrict people to being only able to roll "need" on items they can use.

But opening the game up to dual spec, means those restrictions go away.

And suddenly all those "jerks" that you've railed against in dozens of posts will not be restricted from rolling need on items. Perpetuating the whole ninja loot problem you've been trying to solve. And the real kicker is, they may just say they're rolling for an offspec, but there's no way to prove it. You'll get tons of people rolling for companions still, or rolling for those greedy purposes of selling the item. But there'll be no way to actually even debate the issue anymore because they can just say they're rolling for their other spec.

It's really kind of blowing my mind that you would read through all of those other ninja loot threads, read all of those sob stories about people and their experiences with ninjas, and then somehow believe that people would be forthright and honest about their "need" for an item in a dual spec world.

It's crazy. Dual spec opens the game up to far more rampant ninja looting. How does that jibe with all of your other posts on the topic of ninjas?
You seem to think that the suggestion is to restrict people to only rolling need on stuff that is for their class and spec - I'm fairly certain that isn't the case. Considering hybrids etc, that would be completely impossible.
What CAN be done though, and which is probably what was meant, is that you'd only be able to roll need on stuff that is for your class, regardless of spec - so a assassin tank can roll need on anything that has willpower on it, even if it's DPS focused willpower piece, but the powertech in the group can't. If the item has your primary stat on it the need button is available, if it doesn't then you only get greed and pass.

Icestar's Avatar


Icestar
02.01.2013 , 06:17 AM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by steave View Post
What CAN be done though, and which is probably what was meant, is that you'd only be able to roll need on stuff that is for your class, regardless of spec
That is correct, what I speak of is a system that simply allow your class to roll need on items your character can use and benefit from regardless of specc.

It is also much easier for Bioware to implement then check for specc aswell.

Simply : If trooper allow needroll on heavy aim loot, if not then disable need

The greed option works perfectly for companions and for other options a player can come up with that does not directiy involve their character.

SnoggyMack's Avatar


SnoggyMack
02.01.2013 , 09:30 AM | #99
They can't make that kind of coding decision in a dual spec world because that heavy armor with Aim as a main stat, is wearable (because it's heavy) by a Knight and a Trooper. And has a defensive/tanking enhancement as one of its mods, which is usable and possibly coveted by a Knight. So when the Trooper in the group is a Commando, and a tanking heavy armor item drops, and the DPS Guardian rolls even though it has Aim on it ...

Hey! Dual Spec!
Snoggy Mack
My Blog
My quote: "All the other kids with the pumped up Sith, you better run, better run, faster than my blaster"

Icestar's Avatar


Icestar
02.01.2013 , 11:29 AM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by SnoggyMack View Post
They can't make that kind of coding decision in a dual spec world because that heavy armor with Aim as a main stat, is wearable (because it's heavy) by a Knight and a Trooper. And has a defensive/tanking enhancement as one of its mods, which is usable and possibly coveted by a Knight. So when the Trooper in the group is a Commando, and a tanking heavy armor item drops, and the DPS Guardian rolls even though it has Aim on it ...

Hey! Dual Spec!
Now you are making it more complicated then it is, forget about mod ripping.

A item has a main stat and that is what counts in my suggestion. I define a item as I have always done in ToR by the stats the item has. If it is a aim item then a trooper/bountyhunter has first pick, if it is a willpower item then a counsular/inquisitor has first chance to get it. That is common sense and how most guilds work and decent PUGs.

My suggestion does not involve taking items to rip out the mods, it has simply the entire item in mind.

If you want to take a item that is not your stat for simply a mod then I definitly call that ninjalooting, my guess is that most of the community will aswell.

It is very, very easy for Bioware to code a loot system that checks what stat the item has and what type it is and compare it with the classes that roll. If a character can wear the item and benefit from it then the need option should be enabled, if not then only greed will be possible.

Very simple and very common sense