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The Tank Shadow Hybrid spec.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The Tank Shadow Hybrid spec.

NamikazeNaruto's Avatar


NamikazeNaruto
01.29.2013 , 01:32 PM | #171
Quote: Originally Posted by CharterMonkKent View Post
Interesting to compare using that jugg/guard build. I personally think it's not a very effective build. Hilt strike / back hand adds too much resolve so it should be dropped (you pretty much explained why it's not great).

Also, anyone pvp tanking with a jugg/guard should be getting deafening defense / commanding awe. 4% constant damage reduction with an additional 15% when enraged / focused defense is activated (every 35 seconds). It also lowers the cooldown on the AOE mezz. Kind of like shadow's respite but it lasts longer, has a constant reduced damage %, heals you and gives you more AOE mezz. That single skill on the tree is make or break for jugg tanking (in my opinion). I also think it makes jugg/guardians the best pvp tanks. AND I also think it's crazy that it's 5th tier in a dps tree....

I may have missed it up there but I think you forgot intercede / guardian leap. Which pretty much gives a guard / jugg the ability to stack two AOE taunts (when used correctly). Most notably when saving someone under focus fire. This is a stand out for me.

A stand out for me on my shadow is using resilience + force cloak to buy more time, even when vastly outnumbered.

Also I don't think your comparison of resilience vs unremitting is completely accurate. Unremitting is pretty easy, flat 20% damage reduction and CC immunity for 4 seconds. Resilience only effects force/tech, it adds 100% resistance to these attacks, not immunity (yea in SWTOR they managed to create a difference between 100% resistance and immunity). Juggs cannot be hit with leg shot/slows/etc after leap, shadows can be stopped, shut down or killed many ways with resilience up.

I know I feel more tanky/useful when I'm tanking on my jugg. I can soak up more dps and keep people alive longer. That and my shadow can't throw people over walls in civil war

As to the OP. More nerfs, really? Shadow/sins aren't prime DPS in this game, they have their nitch (which almost always requires hybrid spec), let them fill it.
Hmm, I did talk about Guardian Leap/Intercede some, I did not mention the AoE taunt part of it though. I mentioned how it gave 8% self-heal with the vindicator 2 set bonus. I will admit, that even though I have a Shadow and a Guardian tank, my shadow tank is my main, and I've played my Guardian tank far less than my Shadow tank, so it's possible I may not know as much about the Guardian tank . What spec do you use?

CharterMonkKent's Avatar


CharterMonkKent
01.29.2013 , 01:55 PM | #172
Quote: Originally Posted by NamikazeNaruto View Post
Hmm, I did talk about Guardian Leap/Intercede some, I did not mention the AoE taunt part of it though. I mentioned how it gave 8% self-heal with the vindicator 2 set bonus. I will admit, that even though I have a Shadow and a Guardian tank, my shadow tank is my main, and I've played my Guardian tank far less than my Shadow tank, so it's possible I may not know as much about the Guardian tank . What spec do you use?
Sorry! I figured it missed it

Below is what I'm currently running. You can still do some decent DPS with this spec and can run it with a mix of DPS and tank gear (My saber/belt/bracer are DPS, modded 27s pve armorings). What's nice is that when you want to you can pretty much become unkillable (for 10seconds-ish) even without a healer. Popping cooldowns + WZ adrenal + your passive damage reduction means an entire team of 8 couldn't kill you before your cooldowns wear out. If you can somehow get a leap in there for the extra 20% damage reduction.... That's 94% damage reduction before taking armor into consideration (this is the unkillable part). You'll take so little damage in fact that your small heals from focused defense will probably keep you at 100% health.

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/g...28-211ie228f-0
Wnk & Zlk & Knk & Xlk & Znk & Ynk & Tnk & Qnk & Chart
<Nothing Personal>
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NamikazeNaruto's Avatar


NamikazeNaruto
01.29.2013 , 02:07 PM | #173
Quote: Originally Posted by CharterMonkKent View Post
Sorry! I figured it missed it

Below is what I'm currently running. You can still do some decent DPS with this spec and can run it with a mix of DPS and tank gear (My saber/belt/bracer are DPS, modded 27s pve armorings). What's nice is that when you want to you can pretty much become unkillable (for 10seconds-ish) even without a healer. Popping cooldowns + WZ adrenal + your passive damage reduction means an entire team of 8 couldn't kill you before your cooldowns wear out. If you can somehow get a leap in there for the extra 20% damage reduction.... That's 94% damage reduction before taking armor into consideration (this is the unkillable part). You'll take so little damage in fact that your small heals from focused defense will probably keep you at 100% health.

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/g...28-211ie228f-0
Hmm... this is the spec I figured you were talking about... ok. So, in order to get Commanding Awe, which is probably a bit better than Inner Peace, and reduced cooldown on Awe, you've sacrificed an extra CC in hilt strike, and Freezing Force is no longer spammable. Also, you sacrificed reduced cooldown on force push, and your 4% shield chance, and of course, Inner Peace. I am not quite sure if that is worth it to be honest.

CharterMonkKent's Avatar


CharterMonkKent
01.29.2013 , 02:14 PM | #174
Quote: Originally Posted by NamikazeNaruto View Post
Hmm... this is the spec I figured you were talking about... ok. So, in order to get Commanding Awe, which is probably a bit better than Inner Peace, and reduced cooldown on Awe, you've sacrificed an extra CC in hilt strike, and Freezing Force is no longer spammable. Also, you sacrificed reduced cooldown on force push, and your 4% shield chance, and of course, Inner Peace. I am not quite sure if that is worth it to be honest.
Yep. I still think it's worth it because of the increase in CC, up time (damage reduction) and increase in damage.

Now if the devs get smart and move commanding awe to the tanking tree jugg/guard tanks could have the tools to run 31 point. I don't know if they would ever do that because focused defense reduces threat which is a no-no for tanks in raids.

I say give it a shot and see what you think. I actually ran this spec in my min/max rage/focus gear a few times, it was really fun. Kind of like the old Iron Fist PT tank hybrid spec. It wasn't great at DPS or Tanking, but it was better than average at both.
Wnk & Zlk & Knk & Xlk & Znk & Ynk & Tnk & Qnk & Chart
<Nothing Personal>
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Keblitis's Avatar


Keblitis
01.29.2013 , 02:27 PM | #175
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
More survivability? Please delete your assassin. You are not worthy of having one.

And then burn your computer to the ground.
Warlord
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ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
01.29.2013 , 04:18 PM | #176
Quote: Originally Posted by Atramar View Post
I love being called uncle
pros of commando/merc is easy to handle high damage for PVE.
self heals are lol, yes, but they are there.
I'm not saying mercs/commandos are good for pvp. but. if you don't see pros for a class in pvp, why keep playing it?
it's like 'i love stealth, but I play jugg, so give me stealth'
want interruptable turret class with lots of buttons? go sniper MM
want instant (but short range) abilities? go PT.
Except this is the PVP forum. And if there aren't pros for it in PVP then BW should add some. Asking for your preferred class to not suck in an area of the game you want to play isn't unreasonable and you're a tool for suggesting otherwise.

Also snipers aren't interruptable.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

Kajuana's Avatar


Kajuana
01.29.2013 , 06:38 PM | #177
There are specific combinations of class/specs that are somewhat less feasible for PvP,
but in reality overall balance of classes is actually much more balanced than most would like to admit.
In addition, the developers did a great job to make each AC more or less in-line with the Star Wars lore.

Play a few more ACs, and you'll see the grass is greener in some aspects for every class.

I'll give you an example.
Take Commando for instance. Everyone cries they suck in PVP. Really?
I can make 18K of your HP go away in what would seem like 1.5s for you.
You leave me alone, I'm going to blow a hole in you and your team.
But you put a glowstick me? I'm pretty much dead unless another glowstick comes to save my ***.
Sounds very Star Wars to me. You don't like this play style? Go heals or roll another char.

Scrapper scoundrels?
I can cap objectives better than anyone with my tranquilizer dart and flash grenade.
I can devastate an entire team with Fly-by while they try to secure objectives.
I can stun a healer every 30s for 4s.
No I can't beat any glowstick in 1v1 from full health.
But if they are down to 14K HP, they will never survive. I just have to be patient in stealth.
Sounds very Star Wars to me. You don't like this play style? Go heals or roll another char.

Tank Shadow Hybrid with DPS gear?
1v1 champion thanks to high burst for 10s (2000dps) and single target CCs.
Cap-staller / capper
Great "last-mile" ball carrier
Quick finisher using obstacles (fire pits, bridges)
Downside? Very squishy. Dies immediately once CCed or focus fired. (any Tank Shadow Hybrid you find hard to kill are wearing tank gear, in which case, they should not be able to kill you)
Horrible DPS after 10s.
The STILLWATER Legacy @ LAST BASTION
Kajuana 55 SHADOW, Katherina 50 SENTINEL, Shadowraith 50 SCOUNDREL, Kyhina 50 COMMANDO

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
01.30.2013 , 12:07 AM | #178
Quote: Originally Posted by Kajuana View Post

I'll give you an example.
Take Commando for instance. Everyone cries they suck in PVP. Really?
I can make 18K of your HP go away in what would seem like 1.5s for you.
You leave me alone, I'm going to blow a hole in you and your team.
But you put a glowstick me? I'm pretty much dead unless another glowstick comes to save my ***.
Sounds very Star Wars to me. You don't like this play style? Go heals or roll another char.
Yes they really suck in PVP. What are you doing in anything that seems like 1.5s that is going to take away 18k of my HP? I must have missed that ability. Also pretty much any DPS will blow a hole in your team if they're left alone. Snipers still do it better since it's not enough to notice a sniper is there. You also have to actually get to him.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kajuana View Post
Scrapper scoundrels?
I can cap objectives better than anyone with my tranquilizer dart and flash grenade.
I can devastate an entire team with Fly-by while they try to secure objectives.
I can stun a healer every 30s for 4s.
No I can't beat any glowstick in 1v1 from full health.
But if they are down to 14K HP, they will never survive. I just have to be patient in stealth.
Sounds very Star Wars to me. You don't like this play style? Go heals or roll another char.
-Assassins would like to have a word with you on who caps nodes better
-Infiltration Hybrids can stun a healer for 4s every 15
-Who in Star Wars was even known for stealth?

Quote: Originally Posted by Kajuana View Post
Tank Shadow Hybrid with DPS gear?
1v1 champion thanks to high burst for 10s (2000dps) and single target CCs.
Cap-staller / capper
Great "last-mile" ball carrier
Quick finisher using obstacles (fire pits, bridges)
Downside? Very squishy. Dies immediately once CCed or focus fired. (any Tank Shadow Hybrid you find hard to kill are wearing tank gear, in which case, they should not be able to kill you)
Horrible DPS after 10s.
Horrible DPS after 10s? LOL If anything, depending on exactly which flavor of Tank shadow hybrid we're talking about, their DPS is back loaded. Squishy is also a relative term.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

sabbrina's Avatar


sabbrina
01.30.2013 , 01:34 AM | #179
Quote: Originally Posted by NamikazeNaruto View Post
You're going to have to elaborate a little more than that. What exactly do you think is overpowered about tank shadow, and what spec are you talking about? 23/1/17? 27/0/14? 31/0/10?
the 31/31/31

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
01.30.2013 , 03:27 AM | #180
Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
Yes they really suck in PVP. What are you doing in anything that seems like 1.5s that is going to take away 18k of my HP? I must have missed that ability. Also pretty much any DPS will blow a hole in your team if they're left alone. Snipers still do it better since it's not enough to notice a sniper is there. You also have to actually get to him.
if sniper is so great, why not doing one? cause rotation is to hard for pve? my friend has and loves his merc, but he doesn't play him on pvp. why you ask? cause there are better classes to do that


Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
-Assassins would like to have a word with you on who caps nodes better
-Infiltration Hybrids can stun a healer for 4s every 15
-Who in Star Wars was even known for stealth?
-they have to spec into it, operative has mass mezz
-and fill resolve after 30, plus, your complaint was about tankasins, or we arguing over 31/31/31 again
-if one would be known for stealth, they would be crappy stealthers..

Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
Horrible DPS after 10s? LOL If anything, depending on exactly which flavor of Tank shadow hybrid we're talking about, their DPS is back loaded. Squishy is also a relative term.
tanksin/shadow hybrid only has energy for 12 sec, then it's backfilling with freeattack. unless we talking about 22/17/2, but if full tank hybrid is killing you...

I had merc, deleted at about 45 I think. why? cause I think turret classes suck and are easy to kill. they are good dps, superb dps considering lack of cover mechanics of sniper and lack of having to be in 4 meters for mara/PT... (it means less things to worry about so you can focus on dps). but, it has it draw backs, no class is all flowers and roses.
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013