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Newbie Raiding Question


Eyesmindassassin's Avatar


Eyesmindassassin
01.17.2013 , 01:12 PM | #11
Is there any reason why you're still not answering for the defense relics? If I were grouped with you, I'd put you on ignore for that alone.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
01.17.2013 , 06:04 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthScruffy View Post
If the mod has a letter (e.g. 26B) throw it out. It sacrifices power and willpower for endurance. Even for tanks I'd throw out lettered mods, though that is a little more controversial.
Actually, the 26A mods go the other direction: they sacrifice Endurance and a little bit of Power for a lot of Willpower. Due to the endurance sacrifice, they have a higher DPS-affecting stat budget than the unlettered mods.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank) Effek (ap powertech)

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
01.17.2013 , 06:49 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
Actually, the 26A mods go the other direction: they sacrifice Endurance and a little bit of Power for a lot of Willpower. Due to the endurance sacrifice, they have a higher DPS-affecting stat budget than the unlettered mods.
Actually, they don't. The A variants have middling Endurance, a miniscule amount of secondary stat, and a lot of primary stat. The actual itemization budget for DPS attributes is worse than the unlettered variant and only slightly better than B variants. It's for this exact reason that pretty much everyone outright prefers the unlettered mods (some tanks like the B variants for the higher Endurance but not all; all DPS and healers should prefer unlettered mods).
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KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
01.18.2013 , 12:02 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Actually, they don't. The A variants have middling Endurance, a miniscule amount of secondary stat, and a lot of primary stat. The actual itemization budget for DPS attributes is worse than the unlettered variant and only slightly better than B variants. It's for this exact reason that pretty much everyone outright prefers the unlettered mods (some tanks like the B variants for the higher Endurance but not all; all DPS and healers should prefer unlettered mods).
Hmm, well that's embarrassing. I'm not sure how I thought otherwise, but the itemization is right there. The A mods actually have *more* endurance than the unlettered mods, and the main stat contribution absolutely doesn't make up for the power loss (unless you're one of the weird classes where main stat has an INSANELY high weighting).
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank) Effek (ap powertech)

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
01.18.2013 , 12:09 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
(unless you're one of the weird classes where main stat has an INSANELY high weighting).
There are no classes with such heavy weighting on primary stat that it behooves them to use A variant mods. The closest you get is Trooper/BHs which have a 9% to primary stat, but, even then, the loss of so much secondary stat isn't worth it.
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KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
01.18.2013 , 10:16 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
There are no classes with such heavy weighting on primary stat that it behooves them to use A variant mods. The closest you get is Trooper/BHs which have a 9% to primary stat, but, even then, the loss of so much secondary stat isn't worth it.
So, the Aim weighting for a Dread Guard geared gunnery commando is nearly double the weighting of Power. Crit is the only secondary stat which comes close, and even then it's quite a ways behind Aim. Obviously, the 9% boost is factoring in here, but that alone isn't enough to account for the kind of disparity I see in the numbers. In other words, I'm not entirely sure *why* Power is weighted so low (comparatively), but it is.

None of the other classes I've ever looked at show that kind of balance though. Usually, power is on par, if not superior to, main stat.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank) Effek (ap powertech)

OlosBC's Avatar


OlosBC
01.18.2013 , 10:39 AM | #17
I doubt aim is double for gunnery/arsenal. That seems unusually high. And it would have to literally be double for the A mods to be worthwhile.

For marauders (and maybe assassins(I dunno, do sins get % willpower talent?) Power and mainstay are roughly equal, but j don't think power is ever noticeably better.

Every other class has a % mainstat talent(except some PvP specs for ptech), and mainstay should be better than power by 5-10% I think.
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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
01.18.2013 , 12:04 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
So, the Aim weighting for a Dread Guard geared gunnery commando is nearly double the weighting of Power.
I *really* doubt that. I'd be quite curious to see how you arrived at that conclusion (or who told you that). The DR curves on crit make it almost pointless to use more than the "standard" amount, and the crit contributions of primary stat aren't so massive they they completely supplant Power. Most calcs I've seen weigh Aim at roughly 1.1-1.2 times the value of Power, at worst.
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KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
01.18.2013 , 12:34 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
I *really* doubt that. I'd be quite curious to see how you arrived at that conclusion (or who told you that). The DR curves on crit make it almost pointless to use more than the "standard" amount, and the crit contributions of primary stat aren't so massive they they completely supplant Power. Most calcs I've seen weigh Aim at roughly 1.1-1.2 times the value of Power, at worst.
I'll dig out my spreadsheet when I get home. It's the standard "weighted contribution by ability usage ratio" thing based on a 6 minute combat dummy parse. The only non-standard thing I do is consider weightings over larger chunks (18 points at a time, in my case), since I didn't feel like doing calculus when I put the spreadsheet together.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank) Effek (ap powertech)