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Sage or Shadow - Other threads didn't help

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Jedi Consular
Sage or Shadow - Other threads didn't help

Yethek's Avatar


Yethek
01.13.2013 , 03:15 PM | #1
So I've read a few of these post - and they're fairly informative but I'm more conflicted from a thematic stand point.

I like the idea of the old Obi Wan type sage, the game play would suit me fine as I enjoy both ranged and healing. This was my favorite class type in the Old Republic games previous to this one. (The consular, which I think is more like the sage over all).

The shadow I was wanting to make a Chiss Shadow. The gameplay to me sounds a bit like the enhancement shaman from warcraft + stealth. I just don't know how the Consular story line would really make sense or pull me in as a shadow?

They both sound cool so I'm hoping that someone can sway me one way or the other. I'd like a fairly well rounded and versatile class, but theme is important to me as well. I would also like to be considered for raids eventually too, so keep that in mind.

Thanks!

Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
01.14.2013 , 01:08 AM | #2
Can you just clarify that you already got a Chiss to 50 or are willing to buy the species unlock so you can get it as a Shadow?

Storywise they are both the same really, you do not have any other options based on your AC. The story itself is not brilliant, chapter 1 is pretty much a rip off from KOTOR 2 and after that it's just politics. I would also say that Obi-Wan was always portrayed more as a Knight and Yoda maybe closer to a Sage, there is really no comparison to a Shadow though (apart from Darth Maul). I don't see story as being a reason to choose an AC.

It really is a question of what role you want to be: RDPS, MDPS, heal or tank. One caveat though, Sages are generally harder to play in PvP and have a hard time hitting the DPS of Shadows, but TOR generally prefers MDPS. Obviously the reason for this is that they need to move to their targets so they would be losing DPS in transitions which RDPS do not.

Also any raid leaders which dismiss you based on your class are bad raid leaders. There are many progression guilds with Sage and Scoundrel DPS that are generally dismissed as being too weak. Every class is capable of raiding provided they are played well.
The Last Centurions Derpyn - Sage / Toughen - Vanguard / Bluffin - Scoundrel / Roughen - Sentinel
Filthy-rich - Juggernaut / Timberwulf - Sniper / Ironwill - Mercenary / Ahuizotl - Assassin

BiS Relics for Healers PvE/PvP

slafko's Avatar


slafko
01.14.2013 , 02:58 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Yethek View Post
They both sound cool so I'm hoping that someone can sway me one way or the other. I'd like a fairly well rounded and versatile class, but theme is important to me as well. I would also like to be considered for raids eventually too, so keep that in mind.
Both Shadow and Sage are always considered for operations. Shadow excels as a tank and Sage is a brilliant healer loved for his aoe heals. As far as Consular theme is concerned, Shadow is capable to stealthily avoid both combat and killing people while accomplishing his goals. The Sage has to brute force his way through all encounters. Ask yourself, what's more "Jedi": avoiding a fight you can avoid or brutally killing everything in your path?

Yethek's Avatar


Yethek
01.14.2013 , 08:51 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Dreselus View Post
Can you just clarify that you already got a Chiss to 50 or are willing to buy the species unlock so you can get it as a Shadow?

Storywise they are both the same really, you do not have any other options based on your AC. The story itself is not brilliant, chapter 1 is pretty much a rip off from KOTOR 2 and after that it's just politics. I would also say that Obi-Wan was always portrayed more as a Knight and Yoda maybe closer to a Sage, there is really no comparison to a Shadow though (apart from Darth Maul). I don't see story as being a reason to choose an AC.

It really is a question of what role you want to be: RDPS, MDPS, heal or tank. One caveat though, Sages are generally harder to play in PvP and have a hard time hitting the DPS of Shadows, but TOR generally prefers MDPS. Obviously the reason for this is that they need to move to their targets so they would be losing DPS in transitions which RDPS do not.

Also any raid leaders which dismiss you based on your class are bad raid leaders. There are many progression guilds with Sage and Scoundrel DPS that are generally dismissed as being too weak. Every class is capable of raiding provided they are played well.
I have a high level Chiss sniper, so yes

Though I am by no means a huge WoW fan, one of my favorite classes, gameplay wise was the Enhancement Shaman, which for those of you who haven't played that class it is somewhat like a battlemage - using melee attacking mixed with short ranged magical attacks - this seems like the Shadow to me. The main difference being Shamans wore medium armor and cannot stealth, so a little trade off there.

I enjoy getting in the mix up close and personal. I'm leaning towards shadow now.

-Sirus-'s Avatar


-Sirus-
01.14.2013 , 10:51 AM | #5
I actually have one of each enjoy them both. The game play is very different between the two and I would recommend trying both if you have the time and character slots. Once you get to level 25 or so, you'll have the feel for the game play of each.

If you want the option of healing, you're going to have to pick sage. Likewise, you'll have to pick shadow if you want to tank. Both are very good in those roles.

Sages are great at raid healing with salvation and good enough at single target with healing trance and quickened deliverance. All healing classes have to deal with resource management, but sage is by far the class where you have to active about it. Sages have to actively use noble sacrifice to manage their force and this can be a tricky feat for certain boss fights in this game. Strangely, the fights where you have the hardest time finding a GCD and personal health to use noble sacrifice are the fights where a sage healer is most valued. The dread guard bosses in the TFB is like this. Almost every operation group wants at least one sage healer.

Shadow tanking is fun and dynamic. You have two high threat, instant, near self AOE abilities that make grabbing mob aggro a breeze. You get a mid range stun, a melee stun, and a mid range interrupt. You'll want to keep in melee range most cases, but a good portion of your abilities work just as well from mid range. This gives you a lot of flexibility in mobile situations. We get great cool downs, but need to use them to make up for lower base survivability compared to other tanks. The mix of light saber and force attacks makes this a fun class.

Neither AC is amazing at PvE dps, but both are viable and useful in a group. Sage dps is more static as you pretty much just keep yourself at range casting spells. Shadow DPS is like tanking in that you run around near melee range doing a mix of melee and force attacks. Against a target dummy, you're going to parse lower than a decent sentinel with both ACs. You'll find, however, that your total damage applied to a boss from an operations parse keeps up or beats sentinels for many bosses due to the mobility mechanics of the fight.

Master-Nala's Avatar


Master-Nala
01.16.2013 , 02:44 PM | #6
On the story issue, I disagree with others who say that the Shadow does not fit with the story. This is usually because of Act I. Act II and Act III fit right in with the Shadow's role as the secret arm of the Jedi Order. You deal with internal threats that go to the very heart of the Republic. Even in Act I, if you're actually paying attention to the story, you're acting as a kind of Internal Affairs to the Jedi Order as much or more than as a healer.
Republic Level 55s - Alana, Rickta, Nal'aa, Alan, Myschal, Sinbad, Frank'lin, Angiola, Vesnas, Nightsail, Mioni & Hard-Top
Imp Level 55s - Palatine, Ztephanie, Frank-lin, Ka'Mate, Chisami, Azureraven, Curiosi-dux, Vodoun, Thofia

uziforyou's Avatar


uziforyou
01.16.2013 , 04:45 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by slafko View Post
Ask yourself, what's more "Jedi": avoiding a fight you can avoid or brutally killing everything in your path?
Is this a trick question?
"When you're bleeding out in a ditch on some muckball planet it's not headquarters that comes to save you, it's the guy next to you."

Northandler's Avatar


Northandler
01.20.2013 , 04:38 PM | #8
I've just discovered Swtor a couple months ago and have loved it!! i have a lvl 22 infiltration shadow and a lvl 25 heals/damage sage, so take this with a grain of salt.

I have to admit that I like the shadow the most for pvp. They do a massive amount of damage and have 3 stuns that make then something to deal with in pvp. I've especially enjoyed cloaking and sneaking behind pvp lines to get rid of the healers then vanishing with half health. Heal and repeat.... FUN! PVE is nice because you normally get the first strike which if you're a nerd like me and 4 levels below your mapped area is very handy. There is a little bit less thinking involved than the sage. Just go and beat on stuff until it dies.

The Sage is a bit more rounded but tricky because you have to rely on your shields, stuns, damage over time, and healing to survive. PVE is tough because of the need to manage what your companion attacks during the battle. SWTOR has one thing on WOW in that the enemy group will target the healer. If independent just task your companion to attack the npc and they normally avert their attention. Easy in normal encounters and when you're a level above where you are, but in heroic it's tricky. If you play your cards right and manage your companion well you can clean out a same level Heroic 2 and even a Heroic 4. Takes time but it's doable.

PVP is another story. 1v1 YOU ARE IN BIG TROUBLE! Especially if you are up against a tank type that knows their specializations and how to play their cards. I've gone up against some tanks who destroyed me and walked away with 4/5 or their health. NERD RAGE and EPIC FAIL )-:

If a Sage is left to it's own in a group of at lest 3 your team is next to unkillable.
Some tips that I learned when I played as a sage: Most people target the opponent with the lower health, so keep your health next to full and most of your troubles with enemy pvpers tend to go away (with the exception of enemy bounty hunters who don't like you for some unknown reason). Then your job is to just maintain your team as best you can. This is really hard if you click on your allies toons. You will click on an enemy almost every time. ("RAGE") I've found it's alot easier to just pay attention to team box on your left and select them from there. All the stats are right there. I've found that Redemption is more "Force" cost effective than benevolence especially if you use the specialization for shorter casting time. I aimed for shielding and healing and selected the specialty for the 20% more shield absorption. Shielding is a high cost so don't use it if it's a long drawn out fight, but if your teammate is running low on health shield him then heal. The shield gives your ample time to recover the toons health and you're on your way.

I've found that there are alot of healers out there, but a good healer is hard to come by. If you are not a healer please mark the guy and keep enemies off his back. If you play pvp and your healer is left to his own devices you are a force to be reckoned with.

Drawing battle lines are great for healers, but I'm rambling now.
Thanks for Reading and good luck on your questing!

- North