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PvP Guard Damage Mitagation

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Roles > Tanking
PvP Guard Damage Mitagation

GHoppa's Avatar


GHoppa
01.12.2013 , 05:39 PM | #1
Hi guys.

Looked around alot for an explanation, and thought i would ask those that know best when i couldn't find anything. Switching from dps to tank for pvp, and wanted to know exactly how damage from gaurd was allocated and mitagated?

Is half the raw damage number taken and given to me, and then mitagated by my armor? Is the damage mitatgated through my gaurded targets defense's, then given to me and i can't do anything with it other than have a high hp and cop it on the chin?

From the little i have played, It feels as if my defensive cooldowns (warding call etc) help to mitagate gaurd damage, but not my armour. Is this correct?

I have a few ideas i would like to try with gear, but it all depends on how guard damage is assigned and then mitagated.

Thanks for any help!

xGBox's Avatar


xGBox
01.12.2013 , 11:28 PM | #2
Let's say an enemy player deals 5000 raw, unmitigated damage from Smash. If the receiving player had Guard, 250 damage (5%) is automatically removed. Of the remaining 4750 damage, the player will take 2375 damage and the tank will take 2375 damage (50% split). Once the damage is split, both players will apply their damage mitigation to the incoming attacks separately and individually.

http://www.tankingtor.com/2012/05/sw...view-with.html
Sincerely,
Gearbox
The Software Legacy

Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
01.13.2013 , 12:54 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by xGBox View Post
Let's say an enemy player deals 5000 raw, unmitigated damage from Smash. If the receiving player had Guard, 250 damage (5%) is automatically removed. Of the remaining 4750 damage, the player will take 2375 damage and the tank will take 2375 damage (50% split). Once the damage is split, both players will apply their damage mitigation to the incoming attacks separately and individually.

http://www.tankingtor.com/2012/05/sw...view-with.html
The only problem is that it does not work (unless fixed already) I have been testing this and have never shielded or defended damage received via guard.
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xGBox's Avatar


xGBox
01.13.2013 , 12:59 AM | #4
I was referencing hard damage mitigation from Energy/Kinetic and Internal/Elemental damage but I don't believe D/A/S stats will be calculated into guard damage, sadly.

EDIT: See below
Sincerely,
Gearbox
The Software Legacy

RendValor's Avatar


RendValor
01.13.2013 , 01:56 AM | #5
Guard damage split comes after armor mitigation AND damage-reducing cooldowns, that's why most tanks would prefer guarding a Commando rather than a Sage
The Trayus Legacy - Prophecy of the Five

xGBox's Avatar


xGBox
01.13.2013 , 04:41 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by RendValor View Post
Guard damage split comes after armor mitigation AND damage-reducing cooldowns, that's why most tanks would prefer guarding a Commando rather than a Sage
Hmm, that would mean that 50% of the damage would be funneled twice through two players' armor mitigation, unless you're saying that the tank does not factor in its own armor mitigation when splitting the damage. In your words, it would go like this:

5000 raw Smash
4750 raw Smash after 5%
3562.5 damage after 25% damage reduction on targeted player
1781.25 damage split to player and tank
Targeted player receives ~1781 damage
890.625 damage after 50% damage reduction on tank
Tank receives ~891 damage
Total combined damage: 2672

I'll be doing some tests involving Guard inside the Outlaw's Den sometime today unless someone can chime in with a more definitive answer.
Sincerely,
Gearbox
The Software Legacy

GHoppa's Avatar


GHoppa
01.13.2013 , 04:42 AM | #7
Firstly thank you for the quick replys.

xGBox that article you referenced was interesting. It specificly states shield comes into play, but according to your own and Darth Dreselus' testing, defense and shield do not apply to guard damage, only armour resistances from kin/eng/int/ele, which includes the buffs from some defensive cooldowns. Is that correct?

RendValor, are you suggesting that guard damage is then mitigated twice, once by the target, after which it is spilt and then mitigated by the tanks armor? Because from my own personal albeit breif experience, using defensive cooldowns certainly appears to help mitagate this damage.

I just find it interesting that within a few hours there were posts from several conflicting viewpoints, which goes to show that this is not a widely understood mechanic.

xGBox's Avatar


xGBox
01.13.2013 , 02:37 PM | #8
I'm hoping to try and answer the rest of the questions later today or until someone else can chime in:

1. When does the split occur? Is it:
  • Half of the base damage from enemy player with individual mitigation?
  • Half of the mitigated target damage with additional tank mitigation?
  • Half of the mitigated target damage without additional tank mitigation?


These are the stats I used for my calculations.

Tank damage reduction: 35.31%
Tank Defense Chance: 24.07%
Tank Shield Chance: 36.62%
Tank Shield Absorption: 45.02%
Targeted player damage reduction: 26.95%
Enemy player Surge: 67.42%
All players: 551 Expertise

I will be using Hidden Strike for this test. Hidden Strike is one-tick Tech damage and cannot be mitigated by D/A/S stats even without guard.

Normal unguarded attacks to targeted player from Hidden Strike:
1428 average normal damage or 1812 raw damage
2390 average critical damage or 3034 raw critical damage

Non-crit Hidden Strike:
Tank: 638 / 863 raw
TP: 681 / 864 raw
Raw damage after 5%: 1727
Raw damage before 5%: 1813

After about 15 non-crit Hidden Strikes, the tank consistently takes less damage than the targeted player due to its increased damage mitigation from armor.

Crit Hidden Strike on targeted player:
Tank: 630 / 852 raw
TP: 1134 / 1439 raw after surge
Raw damage after 5%: 2308
Raw damage before 5%: 2423

Critical and surge rating are calculated after transfer. Great news for tanks: Only half of the damage from an enemy attack will count towards a critical.

Crit Hidden Strike on tank:
Tank: 1069 / 1446 raw after surge
TP: 678 / 860 raw
Raw damage after 5%: 2306
Raw damage before 5%: 2421

Tanks can also be victim of a critical even though the targeted player will not be. Does that mean that the attacker has twice the chance for a critical? Technically, yes, but remember that it's calculating Surge from the split damage. The chances of a dual critical will be half of the enemy's critical chance just to deal the same damage unguarded.

With these numbers, I can conclude that the enemy attacker will first have its damage reduced by 5%, then split in half as two attacks between the two players. Each player uses their individual damage mitigation resources (e.g. armor, cooldowns) to absorb the resulting split damage. Each attack has its own chance to critical but will only calculate its own split damage.

2. Are D/A/S stats factored through Guard damage?

For this portion, I will be using Overload Shot. Overload Shot is one-tick energy damage and is mitigated by D/A/S by normal means.

Normal unguarded attacks to targeted player from Overload Shot:
831 average normal damage or 1054 raw damage
1350 average critical damage or 1713 raw critical damage

Non-crit Overload Shot
Tank: 344 / 465 raw
TP: 380 / 482 raw
Raw damage after 5%: 947
Raw damage before 5%: 994

As stated in the previous question, tanks consistently take less damage than their targeted player because of their armor.

Possibly Shielded Overload Shot 1
Tank: 190 / 279 after absorption, 377 raw
TP: 407 / 516 raw
Raw damage after 5%: 893
Raw damage before 5%: 937

Possibly Shielded Overload Shot 2
Tank: 193 / 280 after absorption, 378 raw
TP: 368 / 467 raw
Raw damage after 5%: 845
Raw damage before 5%: 887

Possibly Shielded Overload Shot 3
Tank: 196 / 284 after absorption, 384 raw
TP: 410 / 520 raw
Raw damage after 5%: 904
Raw damage before 5%: 949

The last three shots indicate that some form of shield/absorb chance may be in effect. We can see that the targeted player takes normal damage but the damage to the tank is almost halved. This would lead me to believe that shield and absorb does work, counter to my previous statement, but it will not indicate it as being successfully shielded or absorbed anywhere in the game. This is proven as shielding Guard damage does not reduce charges of Dark Ward.

I can also confirm that Defense chance will be calculated through Guard damage so long as the originating damage could've been mitigated (i.e. Melee/Ranged but not Force/Tech). You can easily prove this by dealing damage to the targeted player and see that, occasionally, damage towards the tank will not be applied at all. One caveat: This will not show up on a parser, and you will not see text indicating that you have dodged a guarded attack.
Sincerely,
Gearbox
The Software Legacy

Darth_Dreselus's Avatar


Darth_Dreselus
01.13.2013 , 03:01 PM | #9
Good to know, shows that all the confusion has come from not being able to tell if shielded or not. I have always been looking for the shield/defend animations or flytext, since I did not know the incoming damage I could not have guessed how much I should be getting.

BTW in your calculations what do you mean by before 5% and after 5%? 5% of what?
The Last Centurions Derpyn - Sage / Toughen - Vanguard / Bluffin - Scoundrel / Roughen - Sentinel
Filthy-rich - Juggernaut / Timberwulf - Sniper / Ironwill - Mercenary / Ahuizotl - Assassin

BiS Relics for Healers PvE/PvP

xGBox's Avatar


xGBox
01.13.2013 , 03:22 PM | #10
Guarded players take 5% less damage from all sources but is not explicitly shown as additional damage reduction from E/K and I/E damage. Damage shown before 5% reduction would indicate the raw damage you would deal to an unguarded player before damage mitigation from armor.
Sincerely,
Gearbox
The Software Legacy