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Stealth Detection greater than standard agro range.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Stealth Detection greater than standard agro range.

Furiel's Avatar


Furiel
01.09.2013 , 09:00 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Hovergame View Post
From a RP point of view, this "issue" isn't really one and make sense. Some people could be able to sense to use of the Force further than their eyes are seeing.
No, it makes less than 0 sense. So you are saying from an RP perspective it makes more sense that a mob should ignore a guy standing 20m away from him pointing an assault cannon at him and attack the guy in stealth standing 25m away and not looking at him. Because that's what happens and what the real issue is. I used to spend alot of time running around with a friend who played a scrapper and it happened all the time where they were stealthed, I wasn't, I was closer to the mob than they were and it would aggro on them and pop them out of stealth. We spent some time experimenting with it to confirm it and there are several mobs in this game that have an aggro radius of approx 20m for normal chars and 25m+ for stealthed chars. Happens on Ilum especially for solo content and in most HM FPs and Ops as well, which puts Scoundrel and Ops DPS at a significant disadvantage due to their lack of a gap closer, which is what stealth is supposed to give them, but doesn't because of this.
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Zarakaar's Avatar


Zarakaar
01.09.2013 , 09:08 AM | #12
My scoundrel is pretty low level, but any time I've had this happen it's been preceded by a few seconds of a bright orange icon on my character, as though I was about to take an orbital strike or something.

If your group can move around unnoticed, don't set off the zone's stealth detection alarm.

Th Reason for this is, probably, to prevent people with stealth and force speed or rocket boost from being able to close on the mob unnoticed. The point isn't to prevent skipping, it's to stop something stealth dependent from being used/abused.

Hovergame's Avatar


Hovergame
01.09.2013 , 09:44 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Furiel View Post
No, it makes less than 0 sense. So you are saying from an RP perspective it makes more sense that a mob should ignore a guy standing 20m away from him pointing an assault cannon at him and attack the guy in stealth standing 25m away and not looking at him. Because that's what happens and what the real issue is. I used to spend alot of time running around with a friend who played a scrapper and it happened all the time where they were stealthed, I wasn't, I was closer to the mob than they were and it would aggro on them and pop them out of stealth. We spent some time experimenting with it to confirm it and there are several mobs in this game that have an aggro radius of approx 20m for normal chars and 25m+ for stealthed chars. Happens on Ilum especially for solo content and in most HM FPs and Ops as well, which puts Scoundrel and Ops DPS at a significant disadvantage due to their lack of a gap closer, which is what stealth is supposed to give them, but doesn't because of this.
Yes, it makes sense. This "feature" is used in many stories, book, movies or animes. The characters can sense the ennemy before seeing him. Against some ennemies, being stealth is like waving a big sign with big lights saying "EH, I'M HERE".

But I'll give you a wonderful example, from books/movies : when Frodo uses the Ring, Sauron (and any Nazgul) EXACTLY knows where Frodo is. When he doesn't, they barely see him in front of them. If you ask for more examples, I'll be happy to produce them

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RikuvonDrake
01.09.2013 , 09:48 AM | #14
Didn't know that we were playing LOTR, thanks for clearing that up for me.
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Hovergame's Avatar


Hovergame
01.09.2013 , 10:19 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by RikuvonDrake View Post
Didn't know that we were playing LOTR, thanks for clearing that up for me.
Frodo isn't a playable character in LOTRO, try again. You rather look stupid than admitting you are wrong
I won't talk about the Vornskr or even the Voxyns, I give you a chance to discover things about Star Wars I just used an exemple in many books about being stealth can be more visible for someone than poiting a gun ay them at 20m.

Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
01.09.2013 , 11:57 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by malangus View Post
I think the stealth detection is intended
It's WAI, but not for the reason you think it is. It's included to prevent stealthers from skipping and/or dancing around bosses like they have been apt to do in *every* other MMO. It's also not as complex and "stealth is worse than non-stealth" as most of the people posting here make it out to be: when you get in range of the boss, you get the "red reticule of warning" on your face which provides you with ~5 seconds to either run away or fight the boss. If you can't be arsed to pay attention or make a decision that quickly, well, maybe a stealth class isn't for you. If you start a boss fight because everyone else was out of stealth and you were not, try dropping stealth before passing by bosses.

It's obviously not a bug since there's an explicit mechanic for it so, rather than complaining about it because "omg, I can't just run around in stealth all the time and dance next to bosses while doing so" realize that, just *maybe*, you're doing it wrong and maybe you should think about doing it right.
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DawnAskham's Avatar


DawnAskham
01.09.2013 , 12:27 PM | #17
Stealth in this game is different than in others as well as a bit buggy (mostly due to issues with client / server sync), though it is still a decent ability.

And while I don't mind having mobs that can detect stealth, I do think the mechanic of such mobs auto engaging from twice the normal agro range is dumb.

Even if this is the case, there should be a range at which the warning is present but which the mob won't engage.

As it is now, you can get close enough to the mob before the warning goes off where it will be impossible to get out of range before the mob engages (though you can sometimes drop stealth to avoid detection depending on how close you got to the mob before the warning).

However I'd much rather see them work to improve stealth so the following no longer occurs:

Situation A:

Passing a mob or pack of mobs while in stealth, only to have a mob in the pack 'spot' the player and engage in combat after the player has moved many meters and multiple packs away rather than while the player is near the mob.

Situation B:

A random mob agros a companion and starts following and attacking them, yet does not start combat with the player nor drop the player and companion from stealth.

Situation C:

Use the in-combat exit to stealth ability, enter stealth and end actual combat (no mobs following / shooting) but the game still considers the player as in combat and unable to use any OOC abilities.

mastirkal's Avatar


mastirkal
01.09.2013 , 01:30 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Hovergame View Post
Frodo isn't a playable character in LOTRO, try again. You rather look stupid than admitting you are wrong
I won't talk about the Vornskr or even the Voxyns, I give you a chance to discover things about Star Wars I just used an exemple in many books about being stealth can be more visible for someone than poiting a gun ay them at 20m.
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You serious man? You're comparing apples to oranges. It makes zero sense and he isn't making himself look stupid, you are. If someone is in front of you with a gun and someone is in stealth ten feet behind them while unarmed, who would you think would gain agro first or be noticed for that matter? The fact you quoted LOTR, a Tolkien series to "Star Wars", a Lucus film production is complete asinine. Just because another series did it has absolutely no baring on this franchise.

Gidien's Avatar


Gidien
01.29.2013 , 03:56 PM | #19
Is there a link to an official comment that this is working as intended? If not then this is just another bug to add to the ever going list of frustrating issues with game mechanics. Stealth detection beyond the range of normal aggro range is wrong. If they wanted to deter people from stealthing past content perhaps they should have the NPC's have increased stealth detection within the area that they would normally aggro someone. My thought is that they tried to do just that and ended up with broken detection.
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oleost's Avatar


oleost
01.29.2013 , 05:25 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Gidien View Post
Is there a link to an official comment that this is working as intended? If not then this is just another bug to add to the ever going list of frustrating issues with game mechanics. Stealth detection beyond the range of normal aggro range is wrong. If they wanted to deter people from stealthing past content perhaps they should have the NPC's have increased stealth detection within the area that they would normally aggro someone. My thought is that they tried to do just that and ended up with broken detection.
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