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Rules of looting blatendly disregarded?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Community Content
Rules of looting blatendly disregarded?

TheNahash's Avatar


TheNahash
12.29.2012 , 12:20 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by uniz View Post
doesnt just happen from new players. older ones are far worse imo. there is a difference between not knowing and not caring.
I agree.
Plus, new players usually don't know what gear is for them and what isn't. The funny thing is that when you explain it to them they are more than willing to give the armor to the person who can actually use it. It's the older players that fail to realize that what they're doing is wrong.

When I roll an alt, I almost never need on anything even if it's for my class, especially if I find out that my teammates are new. There's no point. As an old player I have enough credits to buy the best gear for my toon and keep him geared to the teeth up till 50, so why take it from someone who actually needs it? the only time I need is for looks and even then only if no one else can use it.

However, OP, nothing can be done about this issue.
I'm as frustrated as you are but apart from ignoring people or only doing Ops/FPs with your guildmates, I don't see how this could change. Also keep in mind that the rules of looting are not in the game rules, it has more to do with being a good person than a good player. Bioware could start banning people for doing it and there would be some who'd keep on doing the same like nothing's changed. In the end, it's a manners thing; not everyone has them.

BobaTed's Avatar


BobaTed
12.29.2012 , 02:02 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by TheNahash View Post
It's the older players that fail to realize that what they're doing is wrong.
...or it's the older players who realize how the game actually works, and how little the "common morality" actually means.

Quote:
However, OP, nothing can be done about this issue.
Actually, there are quite a few, but they involve replacing the old "need / greed" format with something that doesn't pit players against each other. E.g., independent and private rolls on loot tables; awarding each teammate a random amount of crafting mats or "loot tokens" or what have you; etc.

I understand why game designers like the need / greed system (and hence why it probably won't be replaced), but it's beyond me why players have become so invested in it that they'd rather make "play nice" rules than question its existence.

Mercathode's Avatar


Mercathode
12.29.2012 , 02:52 PM | #23
Early on in the game I thought that greed was worse than need so I would need on almost everything unless it was a lower level than I already had for myself and my comps. Must have run a dozen or so heroics and FP's before someone called me out. I then traded with them back the item they wanted and told them I didn't know.. I think most people don't get mad if you need on one or two items if they are class specific to you. Especially if you click pass on the rest.

I tend to pass on most items when I play an OP or FP with people that are lesser geared/equipped than me. At this point I do most things for the daily Coms and BH Coms anyway.

TheNahash's Avatar


TheNahash
12.29.2012 , 03:12 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by BobaTed View Post
...or it's the older players who realize how the game actually works, and how little the "common morality" actually means.
In terms of gameplay, common morality means nothing. It's not even a game where you can actually see your teammates and therefore hope that people will not act like the a*****s they are in real life out of shame. it's a virtual world where anyone can be as immoral as he/she wants and get away with it.

But it doesn't always have to be about rules and regulations. Sometimes, common sense can be just as productive and people can just choose not to be idiots. And people need to remember that behind those cartoon characters they see onscreen, there are some other people who are also spending their time and putting an effort into the game.

I don't understand what you mean by "how the game actually works".
What good is, for example, BH gear for a sorcerer who doesn't even have an Aim-using companion? Why would a sorc need on a BH columi or rakata piece if not to just be an a*****e because he can or to sell the gear for a few credits that he could've made with 10mins of crafting?

The point is this: People in games have anonymity that sometimes empowers their worst traits.
Of course we'd like a different system better, but that's the one we have and we can make it work if we stop being greedy for a bit.
So, ultimately, no matter what Bioware does to fix a system that is not working as intended (with the exception of getting rid of it and replacing it with something new) there is no guarantee that people will not act greedy, because some people are innately greedy.

Eshmael's Avatar


Eshmael
12.29.2012 , 05:46 PM | #25
Just talk politly to the players, wether they are new or old ones. you can trade all items within the first 2hours.

BobaTed's Avatar


BobaTed
12.29.2012 , 06:56 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by TheNahash View Post
I don't understand what you mean by "how the game actually works".
What good is, for example, BH gear for a sorcerer who doesn't even have an Aim-using companion? Why would a sorc need on a BH columi or rakata piece if not to just be an a*****e because he can or to sell the gear for a few credits that he could've made with 10mins of crafting?
It's still more than he would have had if he hadn't rolled "need." A penny here and a penny there have a way of adding up. He's got something to win, and nothing substantial to lose, if he rolls "need." Even getting kicked or /ignored doesn't matter, so long as there are people who have not yet kicked or /ignored him yet... which is pretty much as long as the game attracts new players.

Quote:
Of course we'd like a different system better, but that's the one we have and we can make it work if we stop being greedy for a bit.
Yes, the world can be a wonderful place if we're all nice to each other. But that doesn't happen, does it? This thread (and all the others like it) should be evidence of that...
Quote:
So, ultimately, no matter what Bioware does to fix a system that is not working as intended (with the exception of getting rid of it and replacing it with something new) there is no guarantee that people will not act greedy, because some people are innately greedy.
See, the thing is, I think the system does work as intended. I believe the need / greed system persists because it effectively makes players grind for longer than they would have otherwise. That means more concurrent users, longer play times for current content, and overall more subs.

Think about it. An item pops up for a roll. You* can see it, you want it, but you don't get it because someone else wins it, fairly or not. You may be disappointed this time, but now you know the item is out there and is, at least in theory, attainable. You may even get a sense of how frequently it will pop up.

And here's the trick: You may imagine that the item's frequency of appearance is basically your likelihood of getting it - but that likelihood is made much, much smaller by the fact that any Joe Schmoe can roll "need" on it. You may chalk up your lost rolls to bad luck or to some jerk you'll probably never see again. So you hop back on the merry-go-round thinking that this time you stand a better chance of getting the brass ring, even though you almost certainly don't.

This is exactly what the developers want (or should want, economically). You're grinding away, attributing your "misses" to bad luck or bad players instead of the system itself, all the while paying your sub and maybe buying stuff from the market. It may be cynical of me to believe that the developers realize this, and design to it - but, really, it's just a case of "follow the money."

It's easy to see that if everyone just played "nice," we'd all get what we want a little faster, so we make up our own in-game courtesy and etiquette and try to live by it. Ironically, however, the need / greed system punishes the people (and only those people) who live by such social rules.

* "You" as in anyone - not you specifically.

Athena-Nike's Avatar


Athena-Nike
12.29.2012 , 07:38 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by BobaTed View Post
See, the thing is, I think the system does work as intended. I believe the need / greed system persists because it effectively makes players grind for longer than they would have otherwise. That means more concurrent users, longer play times for current content, and overall more subs.

Think about it. An item pops up for a roll. You* can see it, you want it, but you don't get it because someone else wins it, fairly or not. You may be disappointed this time, but now you know the item is out there and is, at least in theory, attainable. You may even get a sense of how frequently it will pop up.
* "You" as in anyone - not you specifically.
The system does NOT work as intended for that exact reason. The rolls are called NEED and GREED not WANT and SELL or MINE or F*** OFF ALL FOR ME

Need means you NEED the item not want the item, you need an item that you can use, you WANT an item you can sell (or your comp can use but thats just IMO). Given the situation described above, a BH rolling NEED on an item NEITHER HE NOR HIS COMP can use does not make that item needed, it makes that item WANTED.

If the system was working properly, people who roll need get the item they need. Just change it from need/greed/disassemble/pass to want/pass, roll want you all have the same shot at it, roll pass you get no shot at it. That would be the proper labeling of the current system, not Need/Greed.

DarthEccen's Avatar


DarthEccen
12.30.2012 , 01:37 AM | #28
The problem, actually, is stupidity, I think. If you're rolling "Need" on an item for a companion, then you obviously didn't need it in the first place. Clearly, the problem stems from a lack of understanding the English language. If you grew up in the United States of America or the United Kingdom, you obviously know English. Ergo, these people are stupid. They don't realize what they're doing despite the consequences of their actions being very obvious. I am, of course, assuming that these people's actions are not driven by ill will or a product of utter disregard for people's time and effort.

BobaTed's Avatar


BobaTed
12.30.2012 , 09:28 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Athena-Nike View Post
The system does NOT work as intended for that exact reason. The rolls are called NEED and GREED not WANT and SELL or MINE or F*** OFF ALL FOR ME
The system does not work the way you think it should. That does not mean that it is not working as intended by the people who put it in place.

Otherwise, I generally agree - even a "want / pass" system would be better from the players' point of view. Even then, though, people would complain about people who roll "want" on stuff they can't actually use...

bahdasz's Avatar


bahdasz
12.30.2012 , 10:12 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Zekim View Post
Common courtesy tends to go out the window in an environment where you wont get your a$&* beat for your actions. - author unknown.
Yep, that's the joys of the digital age, everyone has the mindset that there are no retributions for their actions, so they don't have to act responsibly. We're pretty much going to have to get used to it I think, at least until our society colapses or Skynet takes over.