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Suggested Mercenary/Commando Changes for 1.6

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
Suggested Mercenary/Commando Changes for 1.6
 

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
12.10.2012 , 11:29 AM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy View Post
huh? rocket punch is a melee ability. Run and Gun wouldnt increase the rate of fire for Tracer Missile, Power Shot, or Fusion Missile (all 1.5s casts = 1 GCD). PvE DPS would lose nothing by not using it, and gain nothing by using it.

the only possible major effect Run and Gun would have is for a Bodyguard merc (3 Rapid Scan instants), which would allow them to get 3 heals out quicker (1.5s instead of 2s). this would have an adverse effect on heat management tho. but Merc healers are already fine in PvE, and wouldnt need to use Run and Gun; they would be 100% fine without it.
With all those buffs, you are basically asking to be able to fully DPS as a ranged turret class WHILE BEING FULLY MOBILE everytime a melee gets in your range. Tracer, Tracer, Tracer, Heat Seaker. Jeez, would you like snipers to be able to always instacast snipes, FT and ambushes? This is not how you balance a ranged DPS class. You give them activation abilities for the other classes to have a chance to escape LoS you.

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Run and Gun would ONLY be gainable from Rocket Punch, which means we are in melee range. which is where we need the most help, we cant do crap against melee opponents right now. and Run and Gun *DOES NOT* increase the rate of fire or the damage of Tracer Missile, Fusion Missile, or Power Shot. it functions the exact same as Power Surge, but allows the use of 3 abilities rather than 1.
Your problems with melee, do not warrant you to be a fully instacast ranged DPS machine. I don't care about the fact that it is the same 1,5 seconds between abilities. It's a front loaded, uninterruptable damage. Any damage of this sort must have previous activation set-up abilities: like insta cast heat seaker AFTER your tracers. You are looking for a wrong solution against melee classes.

What you really need is not more instacast damage abilities but those that put distance between you and melee, or protect you from leaps and pulls. In this case i would make the merc being immune to leaps while his shield is on.

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Hydraulic Overrides
Instant
Cooldown: 30s
Grants 8 seconds of immunity from movement-impairing effects, knockdowns and physics and increases movement speed by 30%.

What i have suggested for Pyrotech is to allow immunity to ROOTS AND SLOWS (movement impairing effects). you would still be susceptible to knockdowns and physics effects, and would receive no movement speed increase. so explain to me how i am asking for Hydraulic Overrides?

and if you are taking the armor set bonuses for the Energy Shield duration as a DPS class, you are doing it very very wrong.
knockdowns are part of resolve. that thing is already covered. Immunity to roots and slows for the entire duration is ridiculous and stupid, force speed gives only 2 sec immunity. Hydraulic overrides is already quite high up in the tree.

And the set bonus is wrong? What is wrong is that you will give that shield with all those immunities for 15 sec basically every minute with the pyro talent.

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if you have even read TWO POSTS ABOVE YOURS you would have seen that i have been suggesting that change for ALL HEALERS. limiting what debuffs can be cured to only certain healing classes is a very clunky mechanic, and it would make life much better for healers if they could reliably cure debuffs from their allies.

pull your head out of the sand please. you offered no logical arguments against any of my suggestions other than "OH SWEET JESUS THAT WOULD BE SOOOOOOOO OVERPOWERED!!!11!!!". stealth scan? passive stealth detection is already wicked high, dont think you need any help with that. just open your eyes.

before you post again, i suggest you read some of the thread. every single change i proposed focuses on utility and mobility enhancement. Merc is at the bottom of list, by a significant margin, in each of those categories right now.
There should be no universal cleanses. PERIOD. You are going to ruin more than you can manage. It will make healers completely OP and easy mode faceroll class. As a sorc i know i can take on ops and mercs. As an operative i know i can use my tech debuffs on sorcs. It was done on purpose and it will never ever change, especially for spammable ability like cleanse which basically has a very short CD

Your original post is enough to see that you are heavily biased without any intentions to actually make a balanced game. I don't see any reasons to read anything else as you don't even intend to re-edit your original post. You keep into those terrible ideas which they frankly deserve bashing.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.10.2012 , 11:43 AM | #72
wow

the only part i will address is that you think i wont edit my suggestions. i have *already* edited them about 20 times based on actual discussion with other members of the community. if you read the thread you would know that.

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
12.10.2012 , 12:03 PM | #73
Did you ever think why Power Surge, which is on a 120s CD? It is for a reason, you know.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

CommanderKeeva's Avatar


CommanderKeeva
12.10.2012 , 02:18 PM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
With all those buffs, you are basically asking to be able to fully DPS as a ranged turret class WHILE BEING FULLY MOBILE everytime a melee gets in your range. Tracer, Tracer, Tracer, Heat Seaker. Jeez, would you like snipers to be able to always instacast snipes, FT and ambushes? This is not how you balance a ranged DPS class. You give them activation abilities for the other classes to have a chance to escape LoS you.
If you want to compare Snipers to Commandos, let me put a few things out there:

1. Snap Shot makes Snipe instant every 6 seconds. Laze Target gives 100% crit chance on Snipe.
2. Snipe and Series of Shots can proc Reactive Shot that reduces the cast time of Ambush by 1 second.
3. Followthrough is already instant. In fact it is the fastest skill in the game to the point that it always allows you to hit enemies that you've killed with Snipe or Ambush. You can sometimes hit dead enemies killed by others but no other skill allows you hit an enemy that you yourself have killed (e.g. You can't Impale enemies killed with Voltaic Slash)
4. Cover Screen gives you a 20% ranged defense for 6 seconds that you can refresh (incidentally) every 6 seconds.

So as a full MM Sniper what I do is:

1. Laze Target and Snap Shot for auto-crit, insta-Snipe
2. 1,5 sec Ambush with Reactive Shield procced by Laze Target
3. Get up, use Followthrough on the move and displace to a position with no LoS issues.
4. Take cover again, 6 seconds have elapsed, insta-Snipe again
5. Rinse and repeat (if Snipe doesn't proc Reactive Shot again, then use Series of Shots instead of Ambush)

This not only allows you to have an instant Snipe every 6 seconds but you get a pretty much permanent 20% ranged defense bonus. Not too shabby I'd say. So as you can see Snipers ARE very much mobile in MM spec. I move to a new position every 6 seconds.
BEING A GOOD SOLDIER COMES DOWN TO ONE THING, ONE SINGLE QUESTION:
WHAT ARE YOU PREPARED TO SACRIFICE?

Nijraw's Avatar


Nijraw
12.10.2012 , 03:00 PM | #75

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.10.2012 , 03:10 PM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
Did you ever think why Power Surge, which is on a 120s CD? It is for a reason, you know.
and really? what reason is that? b/c it really offers nothing to the class in its current iteration. 120s is MUCH too long of a cooldown to be a reliable, effective ability.

mercs *NEED* situational interrupt resistance. what i proposed with Run and Gun does exactly that; and it would ONLY be available in the situation it was intended to be used for (against melee ranged combatants).

people can continue drinking the coolaid and asking for an "escape mechanism", but what does that really solve? it lets you run away from the fight faster, great. it does nothing to help Merc maintain effectiveness in combat.

Macroeconomics's Avatar


Macroeconomics
12.10.2012 , 03:40 PM | #77
Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderKeeva View Post
This not only allows you to have an instant Snipe every 6 seconds but you get a pretty much permanent 20% ranged defense bonus. Not too shabby I'd say. So as you can see Snipers ARE very much mobile in MM spec. I move to a new position every 6 seconds.
It is sort of funny. A lot of the toys that Mercs are asking for are already available to Snipers, the ranged class that actually is functional.

cashogy's Avatar


cashogy
12.10.2012 , 04:13 PM | #78
Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
It is sort of funny. A lot of the toys that Mercs are asking for are already available to Snipers, the ranged class that actually is functional.
but im a psychotic lunatic that lacks the vision to understand how my suggestions affect balance! everything i suggest would be ridiculously overpowered! it doesnt matter that other ranged DPS classes already have the things i suggest!



NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
12.11.2012 , 12:27 AM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by CommanderKeeva View Post
If you want to compare Snipers to Commandos, let me put a few things out there:

1. Snap Shot makes Snipe instant every 6 seconds. Laze Target gives 100% crit chance on Snipe.
2. Snipe and Series of Shots can proc Reactive Shot that reduces the cast time of Ambush by 1 second.
3. Followthrough is already instant. In fact it is the fastest skill in the game to the point that it always allows you to hit enemies that you've killed with Snipe or Ambush. You can sometimes hit dead enemies killed by others but no other skill allows you hit an enemy that you yourself have killed (e.g. You can't Impale enemies killed with Voltaic Slash)
4. Cover Screen gives you a 20% ranged defense for 6 seconds that you can refresh (incidentally) every 6 seconds.

So as a full MM Sniper what I do is:

1. Laze Target and Snap Shot for auto-crit, insta-Snipe
2. 1,5 sec Ambush with Reactive Shield procced by Laze Target
3. Get up, use Followthrough on the move and displace to a position with no LoS issues.
4. Take cover again, 6 seconds have elapsed, insta-Snipe again
5. Rinse and repeat (if Snipe doesn't proc Reactive Shot again, then use Series of Shots instead of Ambush)

This not only allows you to have an instant Snipe every 6 seconds but you get a pretty much permanent 20% ranged defense bonus. Not too shabby I'd say. So as you can see Snipers ARE very much mobile in MM spec. I move to a new position every 6 seconds.
good argumentation against lethality user claiming they are more mobile. There is one catch though: ambush is important and it's 1.5 sec, with laze target you get only one crit snipe, after that 1 min you are depending on your crit chance. No crit snipe, no reactive shot, 2.5 sec ambush. So it's not that guaranteed. And you still need to cast 1,5 sec.

Now another real difference: the mercs use tech attacks for tracer and the rest. They have less troubles than us when having to deal with deflection, saberstrike and any sort of ranged defense. So it's not that they don't have advamtages.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
12.11.2012 , 02:57 AM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
Sorry but Run'n'Gun is overpowered. You get too much mobility and burst for a ranged DPS class.
.
Sorry, but until your class is interruptable you have no right to an opinion on the matter. At all. You do realize the proposed ability would require being in melee range of someone right? They're in my face doing frontloaded uninterruptable damage, and I have no way to avoid it. I should be able to put some of my own right back in their damn face.

Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
Jesus Christ, you are asking for a hydraulic overrides on a ranged class? You serious? I can get the shield with the 2 different set bonuses to 15 seconds, haha, i got damage reduction and immunity to every root and knockback for 15 seconds.
I've been asking for Hold the Line on Commando for awhile, only with interrupt/leap immunity instead of immunity to roots/slows. Would serve as an escape and a way to get out damage under fire at the same time (so you'd have to decide how to use it). I like run and gun better.

Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
Holy Raptor Jesus. You are asking for an universal cleanse??? How about some weaknesses? Sorc healers being vulnerable to tech debuffs while ops and mercs being vulnerable to force debuffs. And you suddenly want to be able to eliminate any debuffs in game with just one spamable cleanse?
I believe he's said that all healers should be able to spec into a full cleanse. In this very thread. Multiple times. I don't see how giving healers full cleanses would be game breaking. There's enough effects going out that if they spend all their time cleansing they're going to be dead healers pretty soon.


Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
After terrible suggestions like these, i don't know who has no clue about mercs balance, you or bioware. Dude, you are heavily biased in favor of your merc. You are basically asking it to be OP instead of balanced. It's the same as if I, a sniper would be asking to get stealth scan and passive stealth detection
Pretty sure I've seen you ask for stealth scan on Sniper. A lot. I personally, as a stealther, wouldn't mind it. It's not going to save you from me.


Pretty sure you just want us to be snipers. If we wanted to be snipers we'd have rolled snipers. We're trying to make changes that differentiate us from snipers.

Quote:
Did you ever think why Power Surge, which is on a 120s CD? It is for a reason, you know.
Meanwhile snipers can get off an instant sniper every 6 seconds just by popping in and out of cover. Are you trolling dude? Power surge is, bar none, the worst top tier offensive cooldown in the game. It's not even worth talking about. Maybe if it granted it's buff for more than one cast, but as it stands? Pathetic. I'd trade it for the Crit Chance increase Vanguards get in a second.

I swear Commando was balanced with a completely different game in mind.

Quote: Originally Posted by Macroeconomics View Post
It is sort of funny. A lot of the toys that Mercs are asking for are already available to Snipers, the ranged class that actually is functional.
HA! I've been noticing that for awhile. You can say that again Macro (btw someone note the date and time I agreed with Macro. We've had some, shall we say "spirited" discussions in the past).

Quote:
No crit snipe, no reactive shot, 2.5 sec ambush. So it's not that guaranteed. And you still need to cast 1,5 sec.
Cept Series of Shot crits can also lower the activation time. Between the two you have an 80% chance of lowering the activation time if you have any kind of decent crit chance.

Also your AoE mez is still 30m while our stun is now 10 (makes zero sense for a ranged class), and while tech damage can get around deflection, we're SoL when it comes to resilience which if specced into properly has a better uptime than deflection anyway.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd