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Let the Jedi use his light saber

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Jedi Consular
Let the Jedi use his light saber

LuciferinDNA's Avatar


LuciferinDNA
12.03.2012 , 04:58 AM | #101
Quote: Originally Posted by PPAlien View Post
Really? You do realise that your balance to other classes regenerating force with standard hits is the fact you have an absolutely massive force pool? With proper rotation on a dummy (where you use more force than in a real boss fight if you are doing it right) you take like >4mins to run low. Other classes can run low in under 15seconds...
this one is out of issue here, pardon me but you are not right.
What you are talking about works if you have in (balance tree) psychic barrier, presence of mind and (telekinetic skill tree) concentration, and you rotate just two spells - TK - disturbance -

By the way in pvp, where every even percent of HP counts, we have to eat our own hp and not for getting imun to everything for another 3 deadly rotation, but just for continuing the fight .
For pve goes quite the same...

Aital's Avatar


Aital
12.04.2012 , 01:47 PM | #102
I'll put it another way to simplify this more.

Think it like a range of damage on a weapon. The lower attack in this case is part of the meriod of attacks making up your lowest potential if the spell is used most efficiently if all spells are given the chance to be used in any array or methods.

So what you have then is a spell that no other class may have to deal with that is only 500 damage in a set of attacks that is 1500 minimum in general. (only the unbuffed Disturbance. Others are all 1700+ in relevance to my earlier examples. That damage if you do more dps heavy specs only widens the damage more. My example was from a Duelist style sage which lowers the gap between damage naturally. Technically making me capable of having a more useful sword using sage, but while lowering damage in all cases since it is only more useful in a relative sense to the other damage which also lowers. Where a pure dps will have less unless needed. Though it will still do more damage. So basically it will be a utilitarian thing no matter what but more equal for my instance of a DPS/PVP/(technically PVE)utilitarian design.)

Another point is that being melee in a ranges character is already a nerf by design. then they nerfed the attack. That is double the nerfing here... And it's pointless.

Then we get to another point. Even if you had the attack at the highest point I proposed given a setup besides a hybrid that doesn't get the top end of Telekinetic to fully buff disturbance(aka healers and some hybrids) all normal attacks are higher than the Stronger sword attack(double strike) even with Willpower and forcepower added to damage bonus with willpower added to crit.

So what does that leaves who benefits the most. Only a few hybrids and healers if they are caught in close combat. Hence even the thing I proposed to add to them like stun and the force regen gain are useful for the most. The rest are better off using something else unless they some how have no choice. That means it just picked up their bottom slack. Not their top. So it would take a lot to be a balance factor. then even if it is used with even the two new bonuses I proposed to stun and regen it's still just a choice and one that lowers dps over some other purpose. Which if you notice is completely appropriate to healers and probably even the small amount of hybrids or even balance not using a fully buffed Disturbance if you are in close range.

So basically it's an option. At those points disturbance is your only possible point it overtakes. And it is like the other attacks only there for utilitarian purposes where it matters. So it is just another option in those circumstances. Some badly needed variation in the game for sage.

It fits perfectly.

If you in any way think that can increase the overall damage potential you are wrong. it only allows you to fit it into the place with another spell on the low end if you want in different rotations. It still lowers dps when used but gives another benefit for survivability or other circumstances it is useful for. So no change to over damage potential. Except maybe a bored healer who wants to beat you with the glowy stick while sacrificing his heals since it not as instant as his abilities that increase the usefulness of Sacrifice. Though it would be useful to use with sacrifice in rotation. Then you just have to look at regen for sage healers or healer hybrids if it even matters. And that is ONLY if you add the force regen ability that adds 0.5% per hit for the basic sword attack(and remember it is still a sword attack he has to get in range. He will not be alot of the time depending on situation. Only 50% of things are melee and the healer doesn't want to close for either unless he really needs to be). The lower sword attack is also a lot lower in damage than double strike making it balance itself tremendously. The normal strike that would give regen would only do 1k-1.3k max in an ideal situation. So that means he gets a little more survivability as a sage when in range if he uses a low DPS attack. That is only good for self healing and just slightly prolongs how long you can outsurvive a beating. The low DPS helping that since it is still not countering the overal mitigation to attack ration that is in play. Though it would give a sage in melee a little bit more than he has. But either at the sacrifice of DPS if he was already attacking with balance or the addition of very weak DPS if he's not. Makes sages more fun and probably more fun to fight.

So you either hit with a 1k dps attack for some regen IN RANGE oF MELEE. Or you hit something that is short of being viable by a hair to put on a buff that can apply a 50% movement buff for 10 seconds as a getaway ability(preferably like TkThrow with no resolve but add something like after the 10 seconds are up and it's maxed it can't be reaplied for 5 seconds. Meaning you either let it run out lower than 50%(particularly if it's a 2x25% debuff) or you use it up and run. making a basically similar affect no matter what.. It can even be balanced for group work depending on how it is applied. For instance it could apply the debuff 25% for two hits or 10% for 5 needed hits. Or you could change it to a 5 second debuff. Or any other style you want to fit into the rest of the game. It would have alot of options for tweeking let alone if you get a cool enough effect to change something else to make it fit. Might give another class something just as cool to compensate. They just have to think it out clearly so they don't need to necessarily change it again until they need to again.

So in synopsis, this makes sage melee viable while relegating it to only utilitarian purposes that go with every part of the class. never raising max dps unless in appropriate amounts on the low end where it it still compensate in multiple ways making it balanced and adding more character to the class and giving the sage something to do with hit saber that can really help while having drawbacks to make him want to use range unless he really wants to or in a few appropriate places for helping others or for solo PVP. basically a new run tactic which could help in PVE also to some extent.

Sounds fairly balanced and thought out to me. And even if it's unbalanced that is enough to make it so balancing it would take very little, or a lot less than before. And leave a lot more ways to balance it than were even existent on the sage prior. Including to all other sage abilities in the game. It makes the sage more variable and fixable in the end in every way improving the class utterly with no drawbacks.

Aital's Avatar


Aital
12.04.2012 , 02:17 PM | #103
Quote: Originally Posted by MusicRider View Post
To the OP and the supporters of this idea. Let me get this clear. You are asking for development time to be spend so you can see your lightsaber in use as a sage? Hmmm. I'd rather have development time spent for balancing issues. If you want to see your saber in use then choose one of the other three advanced classes, one of them being a consular option. Just because you hit for first 10 levels with your saber doen't mean you are a master of it. You learn basic attack and bolt deflection. You chose the advanced class that specialises in ranged force attacks. In the end of the day, from an RP point of view, with the exception of Yoda the most powerful of all and still doubt if he could beat Windu in a saber duel, which sage/sorc survived against an assasin or a knight in a 1v1 saber fight in the SW franchise? Qui-Gon vs Maul? Palpatine vs Mace? Dooku vs Annakin? You are still free to use your saber in the game in an ineffective basic way just like these guys did.

But I will accept your complain about wanting to use the saber. So instead of changing mechanics which will probably make the game imbalanced in new unpredicted ways, how about change the animation of some of the sage's skills to come from the saber like sentinels blade storm? Weaken mind, mind crush, tk throw and even healing abilities are a few options.

Bottom line though is that development time is better spent in balancing issues and new content. Also it seems to me that shadow/assassin is the right class for you.

And I would rather they learn to get it right. So when they do add more stuff in the future they don't have to back and fix it so much and have a chance to put more stuff in more easily while wasting more time in the process so we have more things in the game in the end.

Aital's Avatar


Aital
12.08.2012 , 02:15 AM | #104
Reason Number 3. All classes should have their main stats on melee no matter what so they can all equally use melee no handed spells for sparring!! What if I want to put down my saber and go pop a few eyes out Mo style!(use the no handed melee ability that come from legacy etc.)

I should get full benefits just like my main stuff does. Crit and forcepower!!!

LuciferinDNA's Avatar


LuciferinDNA
12.21.2012 , 04:33 PM | #105
Like a long-suffering members of the order, we are still waiting ...

BW are you there? Ah I see you just counting the CC with your friend EA.. .. if you finished may I ask you to blink at the game for a sec? : )

seven_deadlies's Avatar


seven_deadlies
12.23.2012 , 06:09 PM | #106
11 pages of undecipherable gobbledygook later...

Sages are CASTERS. Go play any other MMO, and you'll see.

They stand REALLY FAR AWAY and throw Fireballs and Lightning Bolts and Magic Missiles and ****!

Anything close enough for you to hit with your Saber, shouldn't be that close to begin with. That's what the Tank in the party is for. And if your Tank lets something slip past, and you wind up face to face with something ugly... don't poke it with your glowstick... shoot the sucker with more Fireballs and Lightning!