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Kaggath Series: Darth Plagueis vs G0-T0

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Kaggath Series: Darth Plagueis vs G0-T0

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
12.05.2012 , 08:02 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Canino View Post
O.K., lets see.The Sun Guard are with Plagueis, but that to me leads to weakness. The Sun Guard are a mercenary cult, they protect their lord on the moon of Sojourn, and if they die, he can hire more. But what if the Exchange decided to attack the moon, nullifying the Sun Guard if the siege where successful. The Sun Guard where powerful, but the entire Exchange and a droid army would win. The only Sun Guard left would be those with Plagueis, which probably wouldn't be more than twenty.

What do you think? Are the Sun Guard out of the fight?
Well, first:

The Sun Guards were:
- Melee Ranged
- Skilled warriors
- Rivaled only by Mandos/ Echani

This means that they would be largely ineffective against GO-TO's forces, who mostly use blasters, other than the Gand, who use pikes similar to the Sun Guard's. HK-50 droids would be EXTREMELY effective against the Sun Guard, the warriors couldn't even get close before BOOM! headshot!

I would like to point out two very important Sun Guard defeats:
1.) During the Clone Wars, the Sun Guard's Second Regiment was defeated by a Republic General, Solomahalm, in a battle on the world "Wode".
2.) Asajj Ventress single-handedly wiped out the remaining Sun Guard forces... in their own base.

#1 proves that the Sun Guard can, in fact, be beaten in traditional warfare. And, GO-TO having the extreme numbers and range advantage, he would be able to defeat the Sun Guard just as the Republic did. #2 doesn't really aid this debate, other than to say they are not all powerful, if they were killed by one Sith who also used melee weapons.

Are the Sun Guard out of the fight? I would say that GO-TO's forces could easily overwhelm and defeat the Sun Guards, based on tactical and numerical advantage.
G0-T0 - "Pazaak bores me. I often suspect my opponent of cheating."
Guri - "I am what I am. I don't think there can be any salvation for me."
PROXY - "I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to kill you myself."
HK-01 - "The Great Droid Revolution will not fail."

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.06.2012 , 01:48 AM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Canino View Post
This is getting pretty interesting. Team G0-T0 assemble!!

O.K., lets see.The Sun Guard are with Plagueis, but that to me leads to weakness. The Sun Guard are a mercenary cult, they protect their lord on the moon of Sojourn, and if they die, he can hire more. But what if the Exchange decided to attack the moon, nullifying the Sun Guard if the siege where successful. The Sun Guard where powerful, but the entire Exchange and a droid army would win. The only Sun Guard left would be those with Plagueis, which probably wouldn't be more than twenty.

What do you think? Are the Sun Guard out of the fight?
By no means, imagine the Sun Guard as a mixture between Echani warriors and Death Watch. There base of operations is not Sojourn, the operate on a different planet (like death watch on Concordia) where they have an entire armarda.

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
12.06.2012 , 10:54 AM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
If you are saying GO-TO can't adapt.... *facepalm*

Adapting is what GO-TO has been doing since the very beginning. It was his IDEA to create to fake human persona. It was his IDEA to set up a crime ring to aid the Republic. It was his IDEA to place bounties on the heads of Jedi and Sith. None of those things were in his programming. To say that GO-TO cannot adapt to a new situation is completely..... wrong.

Droids, in general, adapt. If you aren't a B1 battle droid, chances are you will adapt. And GO-TO and the HKs are VERY fancy droids. They will adapt to whatever Plagueis throws at them.

(As for the Exile thing, I'm pretty sure that was just his pride talking. He DOES have a personality.)
I assume G0-T0 can adapt... but only to things he knows. He has of course a huge data base and can hack into other data bases. He developed all these ideas to deal with the situation he was programmed for. We don't see G0-T0 dealing with a situation which is completely new to his programming. Maybe on Malachor, but he isn't doing much there.

Plagueis would have to figure out which situations G0-T0 can adapt to and which he can't.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
12.06.2012 , 06:10 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Maaruin View Post
I assume G0-T0 can adapt... but only to things he knows. He has of course a huge data base and can hack into other data bases. He developed all these ideas to deal with the situation he was programmed for. We don't see G0-T0 dealing with a situation which is completely new to his programming. Maybe on Malachor, but he isn't doing much there.

Plagueis would have to figure out which situations G0-T0 can adapt to and which he can't.
Your argument might make sense if

a.) GO-TO's programming wasn't broken
b.) GO-TO didn't have a personality

You say GO-TO has never adapted to something outside his programming. So what is his programming? To monitor and advance the Republic's interests by aiding Telos IV.

Nowhere in his original programming did it tell him to leave Telos, create a smuggling ring, get a deadly and cloaked body, set a bounty on Jedi/Sith, join the Exile, go against his allies on Malachor, or make any number of choices. He was not programmed to run a criminal organization.... so how are these feats "ideas to deal with a situation he was programmed for"? Going from an droid overseeing a planet to a criminal overlord seems like a completely new situation to me....

Basically, GO-TO is alive. Droids that gain personalities due to lack of memory wipes are, at least in the mental sense, living. He makes choices on his own accord. His code is broken and he has a personality, along with extensive knowledge. He would be just as good at countering Plaguies's tactics as any other schemeing criminal, if not better.
G0-T0 - "Pazaak bores me. I often suspect my opponent of cheating."
Guri - "I am what I am. I don't think there can be any salvation for me."
PROXY - "I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to kill you myself."
HK-01 - "The Great Droid Revolution will not fail."

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.07.2012 , 01:38 AM | #55
I think we have to look at what a droid can't do rather than what G0-T0 can't do as he is very intelligent. But as a droid with a droid army he must have weaknesses e.g. ionized particles - but whether Plagueis can exploit those weaknesses is another matter.

Maaruin's Avatar


Maaruin
12.07.2012 , 09:54 AM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
Your argument might make sense if

a.) GO-TO's programming wasn't broken
b.) GO-TO didn't have a personality

You say GO-TO has never adapted to something outside his programming. So what is his programming? To monitor and advance the Republic's interests by aiding Telos IV.

Nowhere in his original programming did it tell him to leave Telos, create a smuggling ring, get a deadly and cloaked body, set a bounty on Jedi/Sith, join the Exile, go against his allies on Malachor, or make any number of choices. He was not programmed to run a criminal organization.... so how are these feats "ideas to deal with a situation he was programmed for"? Going from an droid overseeing a planet to a criminal overlord seems like a completely new situation to me....

Basically, GO-TO is alive. Droids that gain personalities due to lack of memory wipes are, at least in the mental sense, living. He makes choices on his own accord. His code is broken and he has a personality, along with extensive knowledge. He would be just as good at countering Plaguies's tactics as any other schemeing criminal, if not better.
Well, G0-T0 was one of a series of infrasturcture planning droids. I think they were programmed to take criminal organizations into accout, calculate the impacts of Jedi/Sith, organize interplanetary relations etc. He tried to deal with all those things in the most ressourceful way. But he still acted like an infrastructure planning droid who tries to act in the interest of the republic.
G0-T0's personality actually disliked the Republic, but was still bound to the directive to serve it. Having a personality didn't make it possible to simply abandon his programming. He has to justify breaking one directive with a higher directive.

Also, several other G0-T0 droids "broke". This leads me to believe, this is actually an error in the programming of the entire G0-T0 series.

That doesn't mean Plagueis would find a way to exploit G0-T0's limitations. But it could be possible.
"I was one of many. We were servants of the dark side… Sith Lords, we called ourselves. So proud. In the end we were not so proud. We hid… hid from those we had betrayed. We fell… and I knew it would be so."
-Ajunta Pall

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
12.07.2012 , 12:22 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I think we have to look at what a droid can't do rather than what G0-T0 can't do as he is very intelligent. But as a droid with a droid army he must have weaknesses e.g. ionized particles - but whether Plagueis can exploit those weaknesses is another matter.
It also stands to reason that G0-T0's body would be more resistant to ionized particles than most other droids. If we look at what a droid supposedly can't do, I think we're making a huge mistake. As a droid progresses without memory wipes, they develop more and more of a personality. While they may have a core objective, they also can have free reign on how to accomplish it, and then we have droids that completely surpassed their programming. Is there things G0-T0 might in theory overlook, sure, but any organic (for lack of a better term) could also overlook things.

Thinking Darth Plagueis has the advantage simply because G0-T0 is a droid, is a serious mistake; especially since G0-T0 had already outwitted numerous other crime bosses on a routine basis.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
12.07.2012 , 12:26 PM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by GarfieldJL View Post
It also stands to reason that G0-T0's body would be more resistant to ionized particles than most other droids. If we look at what a droid supposedly can't do, I think we're making a huge mistake. As a droid progresses without memory wipes, they develop more and more of a personality. While they may have a core objective, they also can have free reign on how to accomplish it, and then we have droids that completely surpassed their programming. Is there things G0-T0 might in theory overlook, sure, but any organic (for lack of a better term) could also overlook things.

Thinking Darth Plagueis has the advantage simply because G0-T0 is a droid, is a serious mistake; especially since G0-T0 had already outwitted numerous other crime bosses on a routine basis.
I agree, he can get an advantage over his droid 'army' however. But that's just it, it isn't an 'army' as such, the Wookieepedia title is misleading, he had a bunch of droids defending his ship - say 50 or so. And had a bunch of 'informants' if you like on Nar Shardaa, but were not talking a military grade armarda or anything. He does have a HK-51 factory though. But the point is, G0-T0 would strike from the shadows.

GarfieldJL's Avatar


GarfieldJL
12.07.2012 , 01:06 PM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I agree, he can get an advantage over his droid 'army' however. But that's just it, it isn't an 'army' as such, the Wookieepedia title is misleading, he had a bunch of droids defending his ship - say 50 or so. And had a bunch of 'informants' if you like on Nar Shardaa, but were not talking a military grade armarda or anything. He does have a HK-51 factory though. But the point is, G0-T0 would strike from the shadows.
Also HK-50s weren't brainless morons like the Trade Federation's poor excuse for Droid Soldiers... Seriously, G0-T0's spy network was Galaxy-wide, he wasn't simply limited to Nar Shaddaa, and his base of operations was mobile, so that also makes it hard for Plagueis to take on G0-T0.

Fact of the matter is neither one has a fixed base of operations, so it comes down to who would be better able to find a needle in a haystack when the needle is moving, and the answer would likely be G0-T0.

Lexor_YoMommah's Avatar


Lexor_YoMommah
12.19.2012 , 08:12 AM | #60
Um, Sith Lord vs. puny droid. Darth Plagueis wins. No doubt about it.