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Plasma Brand- Shorten the burn


Karasuko's Avatar


Karasuko
11.18.2012 , 10:55 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Siorac View Post
Still, the armour debuff requirement is stupid. Why do you need armour debuff to use an attack that completely bypasses armour?

It's not a big deal in PvE but in PvP I often need that one global (ie: I can't use Saber Throw before Leap or I lose my target). The instant damage is low, the dot ticks way too long and you need 5 Focus to use it. The only reason I actually spec into it because at least it's not mitigated by armour or shield and abilities like Dodge or Deflection are useless against it.
Its annoying yes but we will eventually sunder something for the focus we need maybe the debuff req is unneeded.It does seem pointless. Even in pvp you want to be using saberthrow before leap when available, the focus built + leap is enough for you to string together PB,BS,OS in a row.

Kelha's Avatar


Kelha
11.20.2012 , 03:18 PM | #12
Just a hopeful bump for the devs, since 1.6 is up...

Show Vigilance some love?

Lacedemon's Avatar


Lacedemon
11.20.2012 , 04:09 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by Siorac View Post
Still, the armour debuff requirement is stupid. Why do you need armour debuff to use an attack that completely bypasses armour?

It's not a big deal in PvE but in PvP I often need that one global (ie: I can't use Saber Throw before Leap or I lose my target). The instant damage is low, the dot ticks way too long and you need 5 Focus to use it. The only reason I actually spec into it because at least it's not mitigated by armour or shield and abilities like Dodge or Deflection are useless against it.
Honestly the armour debuff isn't a big deal in pve. You will never not have your sunder stacks up. Following a proper rotation you will be using sunder ever 4.5 to 6 seconds anyway
Lacedaemon - Juggernaut
The Red Eclipse EU - GM of Drop it like it's Hoth - http://dilih.eu/
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Karasuko's Avatar


Karasuko
11.21.2012 , 04:33 PM | #14
agreed, But it seems abit archaic to hvae a requirement for such a weak strike. If it was improved then sure but at the moment its pretty meaningless.

JefferyClark's Avatar


JefferyClark
11.25.2012 , 04:01 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by GuillimanT View Post
+1 Considering it needs a debuff and 5 focus before we can use it, the damage is just embarrassingly low.
Amen. It's also a 31-point skill.

Quote: Originally Posted by Lacedemon View Post
Honestly the armour debuff isn't a big deal in pve. You will never not have your sunder stacks up. Following a proper rotation you will be using sunder ever 4.5 to 6 seconds anyway
The front-end damage on Plasma Brand is mediocre even in pve. I can get almost the same with overhead slash, if not better, and it isn't a 31-talent skill. Yes, in pve the DOT ticks aren't really an issue. In pvp though, they are. Yeah, you get the armor bypass, but the DOT can be ignored for the most part. Part of the way to play Vig in pvp is to pick a target and stay on it, throwing up all 3 DOTs as often as possible (Plasma Brand, Overhead Slash, and Blade Storm). When all 3 are up, there should be serious pressure on the healer to keep that person up and running. Unfortunately, as it is now, all 3 are easily healed through with self-heals/medpacks and the person can just keep on doing what he was doing, or shift to attack you, when he SHOULD be on defense.**

**When I say "be on defense" I mean that he should be having to pop his defense cooldowns in order to stay up. I know I do when I end up meeting other DOT classes (Marauder/Sentinel, etc).
Jeffinas (Guardian)
Exceptional Legion
Prophecy of the Five

Lacedemon's Avatar


Lacedemon
11.25.2012 , 06:33 PM | #16
The front end dmg on it is shocking, highest on a boss under normal circumstances is 2.9 to 3.2k if it crits. Compare this to impale/overhead slash which can do between 4 and 5k and you have a 4 rage 2pt talent that can outdo your 31pt talent. The dmg of the bleeds/burns across the board need to be upped along with increased proc chance on MS/Ravage reset

In PvP yes the spec lacks any front loaded dmg or the large amount of CC that 31pt tank has to apply meaningful pressure to put your target on the back foot and force a reaction from them.
Lacedaemon - Juggernaut
The Red Eclipse EU - GM of Drop it like it's Hoth - http://dilih.eu/
World First TFB and S&V NiM Clear
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Karasuko's Avatar


Karasuko
11.26.2012 , 04:26 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Lacedemon View Post
The front end dmg on it is shocking, highest on a boss under normal circumstances is 2.9 to 3.2k if it crits. Compare this to impale/overhead slash which can do between 4 and 5k and you have a 4 rage 2pt talent that can outdo your 31pt talent. The dmg of the bleeds/burns across the board need to be upped along with increased proc chance on MS/Ravage reset

In PvP yes the spec lacks any front loaded dmg or the large amount of CC that 31pt tank has to apply meaningful pressure to put your target on the back foot and force a reaction from them.
All your suggestions are good theres only one problem.
They're all decent buffs to our dps, and might actually tip us over the top in pvp.While I loved derpsmashing everything in sight when i roll as focus the damage I do as vigi is actually fine, Maybe not facerollsent damage but decent for what my I think i should provide to the Op.

If bioware thinks our damage is OK we probably won't be touched which is a shame as it could be a good oppurtunity to give vigi a niche role like watchmen sents and make us a burn heavy build.

Siorac's Avatar


Siorac
11.26.2012 , 02:01 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by JefferyClark View Post
Amen. It's also a 41-point skill.

The front-end damage on Plasma Brand is mediocre even in pve. I can get almost the same with overhead slash, if not better, and it isn't a 41-talent skill. Yes, in pve the DOT ticks aren't really an issue. In pvp though, they are. Yeah, you get the armor bypass, but the DOT can be ignored for the most part. Part of the way to play Vig in pvp is to pick a target and stay on it, throwing up all 3 DOTs as often as possible (Plasma Brand, Overhead Slash, and Blade Storm). When all 3 are up, there should be serious pressure on the healer to keep that person up and running. Unfortunately, as it is now, all 3 are easily healed through with self-heals/medpacks and the person can just keep on doing what he was doing, or shift to attack you, when he SHOULD be on defense.**

**When I say "be on defense" I mean that he should be having to pop his defense cooldowns in order to stay up. I know I do when I end up meeting other DOT classes (Marauder/Sentinel, etc).
By "almost the same" you mean a LOT better. Plasma Brand's direct hit, if all the stars align, can crit for something like 2.5-3k, OS can crit for over 4k.

But apart from that, you're right. It's laughable how Watchman dots are so much more effective.

Kelha's Avatar


Kelha
11.28.2012 , 10:48 AM | #19
I had posted this in another thread as well, but I'll reiterate:

One of my main reasons for wanting the shorter burn (9 or 6 seconds would be great) is that Plasma Brand procs Master Strike, which was not the case with talents at launch. The spec changed, but the 41 point skill did not- it needs to catch up. As it is, we lose 25% of PB's burn most of the time because of this.

Some extra front loaded damage would be excellent... perhaps these two things would put us back into the 5% gap they say all classes are in.

Lacedemon's Avatar


Lacedemon
11.30.2012 , 06:37 AM | #20
Right now I have to question why Blade Storm and OS have a dot component as opposed to higher up-front damage. The only purpose they seem to server in PvP is that they can offer clense protection for shatter (as clenses remove the oldest dots first). However because of the high damage the Shatter dot does and its long tick time you generally want to get it up on the target asap so for me that theory sort of doesn't work :S

Although with the proc relic now being BiS in PvE they do offer the advantage of being ticks that can proc it. And the more damage numbers you have going off per second the greater chance you have of it proc'ing

The damage those dots do is pitiful to the point where I have lowbie ops who have skills like Coroasive dart that tick for more at a much much lower level.

I do however think that just upping the proc chance of a cooldown reset would be enough to help bridge the gap and help our sustained be more reliable. Maybe 45% on Overhead Slash and 60% on Plasma Brand. This would mke it massively more useful as a skill and the very high focus cost of it IMHO justifies a greater chance to proc it.
Lacedaemon - Juggernaut
The Red Eclipse EU - GM of Drop it like it's Hoth - http://dilih.eu/
World First TFB and S&V NiM Clear
RWZ Rating: Ranked died on my server