Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Why not: Deception Manifesto


nosmos's Avatar


nosmos
11.21.2012 , 08:21 PM | #1
Well, I decided to dig out an old character I had a blast on back in March - my assassin, and use him as my main when 1.4 hit. Tossed aside my Marauder, and my sorc healer.

I am only going to discuss deception here, since it is the assassin DPS spec I enjoy (if i wanted to do madness i'd go on my sorc). Tanking, I could not really come up with anything useful to add. I've tanked all the content on its hardest setting (except for NiM EC) and its fine.

Deception lacks some things that are so basic, every single other class has them. We have ZERO talents for passive Mainstat, Crit or accuracy. Not in a stance, not in a tree. Deception, like the other DPS classes has talents that increase the bonus damage of critical hits - and yet, we have no combo to garuntee a critical hit.

The issue is quite simple. Every other class through stats in their trees, can get their crit to a respectable level and push power into the 1100+. I have messed around with so many variations of mods, and if I do not push my crit HIGH into the DR, my mauls barely hit for anything other then the tool tip says. Shock, Discharge..the same.

While our force management is a bit better with the lowered cool down on cloak and blackout resetting - it's still not that great for sustained. It works, but again - in comparison to my other Five 50's, they don't have that issue. We have nothing on a cool down that gives us X amount of force. The Surging charge talent that gives 10 force X amount of time is rubbish.

What can be done? For starters, give us the stat abilities that sorcs have. You know, like powertechs and mercs share stat talent abilities, jugs and maras, ops and snipers.

I shouldn't have to have 600 crit rating to get good numbers.

Surging Charge: This talent should have something with its stance - an increase in accuracy (like Carnage), better internal damage procs. Something.

Saber Conduit: Your surging charge has 100 percent chance to restore 10 force when dealing damage. This effect cannot occur more then once every 10 seconds. This should NOT be a 3 point talent considering it gives us 10 force every 10 seconds. In a sustained boss fight, that is really not much. Drop it to 1 talent, or increase the amount of force regenerated.

Static Charges: This talent makes me think none of the devs actually play a deception in a raid raid environment. How often do you actually use 5 stacks? It's a dps loss to wait, you discharge when its off cooldown. This needs to be changed. Perhaps speed up the process it takes to get 5 stacks? Or make it so 5 stacks gives you an auto crit on maul or shock? This is lackluster, needs to be fixed.

Resourcefulness Force reduction on lacerate...which is pretty useless, and 30 second cool down on Overcharge Saber. Overcharge saber could use a boost, maybe make it increase critical chance of shock and maul for x amount of time while its active? I dunno, but something could make it a better talent.

Low Slash Why do i need low slash to get to Voltaic Slash? WIth free respecs now, if I want to Raid I shouldnt have to take that talent.

Charge Mastery: Why the madness talent gets increased crit and deception gets...9 percent armor pen is beyond me. There's nothing more frustrating in deception then doing your rotation and see your tooltip numbers hit. For a 3 point talent, the Surging charge part needs to be fixed. Increases Force Critical Damage by X amount perhaps? That coupled with an accuracy increase in the stance itself would be nice..

SIDE NOTE: The entire Stalker set of dread masters, implants / ear included - gives you something like +44 accuracy. THATS IT. The heck?

In summation, I love the class but everyday I wonder why i spent so much time RE'n stuff to get all 63's, when I can't even get above 1040 power with having 33 force crit. It's very frustrating....PLEASE please please bioware, fix us!
55 Assassin - 55 Sorc - 55 Jug - 55 Marauder - 55 Sniper
55 Operative - 55 merc - 55 Powertech

NinjaApacHe's Avatar


NinjaApacHe
11.22.2012 , 04:25 AM | #2
/signed. The only viable spec in pvp is always darkness/Hybrid. Decdeption is a waste of time trying to tweak stats and results. It's so sad, because it's the one I like more.

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
11.22.2012 , 05:32 AM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by NinjaApacHe View Post
/signed. The only viable spec in pvp is always darkness/Hybrid. Decdeption is a waste of time trying to tweak stats and results. It's so sad, because it's the one I like more.
I beg the differ about that part. Deception (and deception/madness (DF) ) is quite good for pvp.
It's ridic good against smashers, out of stealth pops + sneak + vanish + sneak = 24 seconds of + 25% dmg reduction.

if you tweak it for pve to give more dps or better energy managment, it will be to OP for pvp and will get mega nerf
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

roestzwiebel's Avatar


roestzwiebel
11.22.2012 , 05:41 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Atramar View Post
I beg the differ about that part. Deception (and deception/madness (DF) ) is quite good for pvp.
It's ridic good against smashers, out of stealth pops + sneak + vanish + sneak = 24 seconds of + 25% dmg reduction.

if you tweak it for pve to give more dps or better energy managment, it will be to OP for pvp and will get mega nerf
/agree

Infiltration got a few tweaks with patch 1.4, that pushed it's survivalbility. Also, Maul is a real hard hitter, if you use it on proc and you have luck with crit I don't see a problem with maul atm. Either push your crit (for PvE) and get more, but a bit lower big hits, or play it with Max. AP and Bonus Damage > 1000.

Playing infiltration since release, I think it's currently very viable.

A Buff regarding to damage will cause a big nerf in 1.7

Groncho's Avatar


Groncho
11.22.2012 , 07:11 AM | #5
with procs it works pretty good
if u time it out u can get 4-5k hits easily in pvp
in fact i have noticed (with the overcrowd of smashmonkeys) that the surv is even better is some scenarios
Ch
LATIN LOVER
Free Transfer??=

Jmenks's Avatar


Jmenks
11.22.2012 , 07:28 AM | #6
Deception/Infiltration is very viable in PvP. Counters PTs and Smashers, if your rotation is right, you'll be pumping out the damage.
Xekshek
Saber of Exar Kun
http://www.twitch.tv/xekshek

nosmos's Avatar


nosmos
11.22.2012 , 07:54 AM | #7
I already stated its fine for pvp. I am talking about a few minor tweaks for sustained damage in PVE, the very basic being talents in tier 1 of the trees to increase mainstat / crit and or accuracy (stance perhaps).
55 Assassin - 55 Sorc - 55 Jug - 55 Marauder - 55 Sniper
55 Operative - 55 merc - 55 Powertech

nosmos's Avatar


nosmos
11.22.2012 , 08:09 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Groncho View Post
with procs it works pretty good
if u time it out u can get 4-5k hits easily in pvp
in fact i have noticed (with the overcrowd of smashmonkeys) that the surv is even better is some scenarios
Again, I was talking about PVE - not pvp. Survivability is better because of entropic field and blackout. Which is great!

Lets look at Carnage: Carnage gets, in its stance a what...6 percent increase to accuracy or something? On top of that, a tier 2 talent to increase force and melee accuracy (along with critical force accuracy talent in the rage tree).

Carnage is kind of like deception. Carnage uses Massacre as its filler, Deception uses Voltaic Slash, Carnage has berserk that refunds rage when used on a cooldown, deception has no such cooldown.

Carnage gets a proc that auto crits force scream - deception gets no such proc that increases crit chance or auto-crits. Carnage also gets gore, 100 percent armour pen. Deception gets...9 percent armour pen if you spec into it.

Then toss all of the other stuff the mara has in there (i play one too).

In a raid environment I can keep up with the maras and powertechs in our group - depending on the fight. On 16 man HM dread guard, I usually (after my opening burst) fall back to 3rd or so come phase 2, simply because i have to run circles around the bosses to ensure i can maul when it procs, and force speed is not as instant 'to the boss' as charge.

On the droid puzzle boss, I can if luck is with me in crits, come out on top. Same with TFB.

Last night I spend over 2 mill on a couple willpower /. power mods to complete my 63's, which with a stim brought my force power up to 1040...but my force critical down to 34....and i do believe its a dps loss.

As a deception assassin in sustained PVE fights, it is a DPS loss if you are not around 40 percent Crit melee and 39 or so force. So that is around 550 crit rating. I have tried more crit with BM surge / crit relics, adding anymore crit past 38 percent or so barely moves your percentage up. at 550 crit, adding 44 more would bring your melee percent to around 41 percent. Keep in mind when doing this, your power is around 970 or less (depending on how geared you are).

Our mercs? My marauder? Our powertechs? In equal gear of 63's, they can push 1100+ power and still have 38 percent crit or so. Why? Because they have talents in their trees to increase mainstat / accuracy and or crit. This allows them to drop mods for other things.

Deception is that hardest spec to itemize, I have spent countless hours swapping mods out and relics etc, on the dummy. Which btw is a terrible source to parse for a deception.
55 Assassin - 55 Sorc - 55 Jug - 55 Marauder - 55 Sniper
55 Operative - 55 merc - 55 Powertech

Atramar's Avatar


Atramar
11.22.2012 , 08:35 AM | #9
Well, if compare to mara - mara needs to build his rage, assasin regen while kiting aoe.
black out is good for force regen, and can be reseted. (force regen is not a big issue any way, you can't derp spam voltanic/trash all the time, but don't need to much filler saber)
force speed is not as good to get to boss, ofc, but it's much better to get away from him if needed.
force cloak is better then maras derp stealth.
madness does good dmg while kiting and has more range for dots then mara anni.
we have +9% to mele crit if force crit if specced.
comparing assa to merc is just wrong.

what we stated before, was, if they make assas a bit better, it will make them to OP for PVP which will end in nerf.
Tracer Legacy, The Red Eclipse.
Not reading colored text, it hurts my eyes. Sorry (unless it's a dev post)
L55:Sniper,Operative,Juggernaut,Assassin,Marauder, Powertech,Guardian,Commando,Scoundrel
to finish:Shadow(41),Sage(53),Merc(39). 29.07.2013

nosmos's Avatar


nosmos
11.22.2012 , 08:36 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Atramar View Post
Well, if compare to mara - mara needs to build his rage, assasin regen while kiting aoe.
black out is good for force regen, and can be reseted. (force regen is not a big issue any way, you can't derp spam voltanic/trash all the time, but don't need to much filler saber)
force speed is not as good to get to boss, ofc, but it's much better to get away from him if needed.
force cloak is better then maras derp stealth.
madness does good dmg while kiting and has more range for dots then mara anni.
comparing assa to merc is just wrong.
I was more or less comparing carnage to deception since the spec play in a similar style - otherwise, im comparing STAT talents that every class gets that we do not
55 Assassin - 55 Sorc - 55 Jug - 55 Marauder - 55 Sniper
55 Operative - 55 merc - 55 Powertech