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Revisiting An in-depth look at: Revan

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Revisiting An in-depth look at: Revan

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.18.2012 , 10:02 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
KOTOR disagrees with you.

Revan was largely responsible for the Republic success in that war for many reasons.
Let me break down Revan's success for you, and those who think the same as you do.

The Republic was crumbling, the Mandalorians were destroying the Republic military and morale was low. Suddenly, an army of Jedi takes command of the Republic fleet. Morale skyrockets and the Republic begins to recruit a vast number of troops. The Republic's numbers grow exponentially, greatly outnumbering the Mandalorians with the aid of the Jedi.

Command of the fleet is given to Revan, Alek, Meetra Surik, Saul Karath, Kavar, and others. Revan decides upon an aggressive course of action, leaving worlds undefended to make a strike against the Mandalorians. The fleets led by Meetra, Kavar, and Alek secure countless victories and pushed the Mandalorians to the borders of Known Space.

Revan did not win the war alone. If not for his allies, the Mandalorians would have pushed them back. What we can say for Revan is that he was able to rally the Jedi to join the war.

Revan could have easily turned Mandalore's false war strategy against him and strung his forces along in the same way the Mandalorians had done. This would not have only saved lives, but would have brought an easy end to the war. Instead, Revan chose an aggressive tactic (the Mandalorian's tactics) that costed more lives than any other strategy would have.

The reason I say Revan is not a tactical genius is because if he were a genius, he could have easily turned the war around through his own tactics. His use of Mandalorian tactics would have failed if he didn't have the Jedi numbers he had.
Added Chapter 35 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
11.18.2012 , 10:07 PM | #52
Quote:
The reason I say Revan is not a tactical genius is because if he were a genius, he could have easily turned the war around through his own tactics. His use of Mandalorian tactics would have failed if he didn't have the Jedi numbers he had.
I still do not understand how using Mandalorian tactics with larger numbers makes him not a tactical genius.

It was literally an unbeatable strategy.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.18.2012 , 10:17 PM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by khayyinx View Post
1- Yeah, still he was one of the most powerfull force user of his time. Since that in his time there was jedi masters and sith masters, he was as powerfull as them. How can you say that someone is a master of something? You'll say that you know about sidious and luke because George Lucas said that they are SW super-heroes. But what about other characters? Has obi-wan mastered light side? He was a jedi master, but that's only a title too...
The thing is, he was powerfull enough to be considered a master in both sides. Just play Kotor and you'll know that.

2- Yes, it's a character statement but they have no reason to lie about that, and since they are very good warriors and know a lot about war, it's a big deal. You can't say that he's not a skillful tactician or else he wouldn't be praised like this by a clan of WARRIORS.

3- Would have fallen? Could not control himself? What the hell are youtalking about? Have you made the dark side ending? That what would happen if he fallen to the dark side, he'd use the star forge to take the whole galaxy!!
1. How can someone be a master of something? Good question. The answer is not simple. Mastery requires the most serious mind. To show an unparelled control/use of an ability/skill. Being a Jedi Master does not make you a master of the Light Side. Obi-Wan is not a master of the Light Side. Mastering the Force is not something you can do. It requires you to be the picture of peace, tranquility. Mastering the Dark Side is even more difficult. The Dark Side becomes the master in almost every case.

2. They praised his use of tactics. Tactics that they themselves use. He used their own tactics to beat them. That's why they praised him. He used their tactics, not only that, but he bested them with it. No wonder they praised him!

3. What am I talking about? No need to get angry. Revan was absolutely corrupted by the Dark energies of Malachor V. He could not control these energies. They controlled him. Revan can't fathom what it takes to control the Dark Side. The Dark powers that he used would have corrupted him. That is what the Dark Side does. He doesn't have the mental discipline to control Dark powers.
Added Chapter 35 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.18.2012 , 10:21 PM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Warren-Stride View Post
I still do not understand how using Mandalorian tactics with larger numbers makes him not a tactical genius.

It was literally an unbeatable strategy.
It's a good strategy. His use of their strategy makes him a good strategist, but not a genius. A genius creates a tactic that completely outwits and outmaneuvers the enemy. Revan basically hit the Mandalorian's proverbial 3-inch thick Durasteel wall with his own 6-inch durasteel wall.

An effective strategy, but not the best strategy. He's a great strategist, but not a tactical genius.
Added Chapter 35 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
11.18.2012 , 10:22 PM | #55
Quote:
2. They praised his use of tactics. Tactics that they themselves use. He used their own tactics to beat them. That's why they praised him. He used their tactics, not only that, but he bested them with it. No wonder they praised him!
The Echani respected him as well, so it's not because the Mandalorians were biased.

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
11.18.2012 , 10:30 PM | #56
Quote:
An effective strategy, but not the best strategy. He's a great strategist, but not a tactical genius.
"Strategy" and "Tactics" are synonyms.

"Great" and "Genius" both mean above average.

I have to point out that Revan was both a great strategist and a tactical genius, seeing as they mean the same thing.

Swarlesx's Avatar


Swarlesx
11.18.2012 , 10:31 PM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Let me break down Revan's success for you, and those who think the same as you do.

The Republic was crumbling, the Mandalorians were destroying the Republic military and morale was low. Suddenly, an army of Jedi takes command of the Republic fleet. Morale skyrockets and the Republic begins to recruit a vast number of troops. The Republic's numbers grow exponentially, greatly outnumbering the Mandalorians with the aid of the Jedi.

Command of the fleet is given to Revan, Alek, Meetra Surik, Saul Karath, Kavar, and others. Revan decides upon an aggressive course of action, leaving worlds undefended to make a strike against the Mandalorians. The fleets led by Meetra, Kavar, and Alek secure countless victories and pushed the Mandalorians to the borders of Known Space.

Revan did not win the war alone. If not for his allies, the Mandalorians would have pushed them back. What we can say for Revan is that he was able to rally the Jedi to join the war.

Revan could have easily turned Mandalore's false war strategy against him and strung his forces along in the same way the Mandalorians had done. This would not have only saved lives, but would have brought an easy end to the war. Instead, Revan chose an aggressive tactic (the Mandalorian's tactics) that costed more lives than any other strategy would have.

The reason I say Revan is not a tactical genius is because if he were a genius, he could have easily turned the war around through his own tactics. His use of Mandalorian tactics would have failed if he didn't have the Jedi numbers he had.
Revan defied the council, brought the Jedi to the republic, put tactics into play the no other republic general thought to use, and defeated Mandalore in one on one combat. Revan did a lot for the war. Without his actions republic probably would have lost.

Joronas's Avatar


Joronas
11.18.2012 , 10:47 PM | #58
A tactician fights battles, a strategist fights wars.. Revan was both, but that doesn't excuse sloppy thinking; they are different.

Likewise, a 'great' will have the goal of winning.. and a few others in mind.

Generally, conserving troops and equipment is high on the list.
Usually preventing civilian casualties (but that is cultural -- Republic will consider it a requirement, Sith .. the opposite requirement)
Winning the respect of your opponents, possibly
Preventing further incursions/wars, usually.

But, the greats will have multiple purposes besides 'winning'.

A 'genius' would be a great.. who is also creative. They won't simply use tried and true methods, they will come up with new ones, that work.

So... is Revan a great? Doubtful. He won the respect of the Mandalorians, but he didn't appear to be looking for it. He didn't preserve troops, equipment OR civilians. And the Mandalorians are fighting against the Republic. All he did was win battles... so, a good tactician and good strategist, but not a great.

He wasn't creative, or great, so definitely not a genius.

Warren-Stride's Avatar


Warren-Stride
11.18.2012 , 10:59 PM | #59
Quote:
A 'genius' would be a great.. who is also creative. They won't simply use tried and true methods, they will come up with new ones, that work.
Does anyone have a source of him being actually uncreative and using the Mandalorian's tactics? I think what everyone is refering to is the fact that lots of people died, like the Mandalorians were dying.... not that he used the same exact battle formation as the enemy.

The Mass Shadow Generator certainly seemed original and creative to me....

Darth_Urtani's Avatar


Darth_Urtani
11.18.2012 , 11:30 PM | #60
ITT: People who take Star Wars canon seriously.
HAHAHAHA Wow you're all so pathetic.
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