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Revisiting An in-depth look at: Revan

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Revisiting An in-depth look at: Revan

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.18.2012 , 07:39 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by khayyinx View Post
Ok, here we go again, argue with the most all-knowing of star wars ever...

1- Well, Revan was a jedi knight, who became a Dark Lord of the Sith, Darth Revan, what to me means that he is a master of the dark side and it is stated that he's one of the most powerfull sith etc. After that he goes to the light side again and became a jedi MASTER (it is stated in the novel), which again, to me, means that he is a master of the light side. So, yes he mastered both sides of the force.
About the lightsaber fighting, it is stated that he was one of the best dualist of his time, wich was a time with a LOT of fighter both from dark and light sides and mandalorians, etc. So, even that we can't confirm that he mastered any lightsaber style, he probably did, and if he didn't, there is no difference, because he's still one of the bests.

2- He was a tactical genius as stated before, praised for a lot of fighters including mandalorians that are all about war. Just because you don't think he is and have no arguments to base this doesn't means he wasn't. You must remember that we don't know the majority of things made by Revan, actually, we know almost nothing about him and there could be situations that aren't shown to players that only canderous have seen.

3- Yes, he used both sides of the force. In the same time? No, not in the same instant but he could, for example, heal his wounds with force heal (light side) and after that kill someone with force lightning or force storm (dark side). This is use both sides of the force.
Also, he isn't the only one to do that. Kyle Katarn could do that too and so luke skywalker. Although they didn't like to use dark side powers fearing to fall to dark side.

Oh, and **** G-canon, **** what George Lucas says, he doesn't even cares for what he says and the repercussion that it would have.



This is so true. The novel and the game screwed with Revan character.
^^ Well said (with the exception of what you said about G-canon).

I'd like to talk about the whole "mastery" thing though. Did he master the force? No. But who has mastered the force? Not many. Revan displayed a great understanding of the force by becoming a powerful user of both sides (at different times). It's obvious that Revan had a great understanding of the force. Didn't Darth Bane himself say that Revan was a very powerful being?

Also - would someone explain to me why the following quote from Kreia ISN'T reliable?
"Looking at Revan was like looking into the heart of the force."
- yes, Kreia lies a lot, but there isn't a good reason for her to lie on this subject. She doesn't lie aimlessly. There's always a purpose, and I can't see the point in lying in this since.
- could she have been stretching the truth here? Possibly. Revan was her apprentice so she must have had great pride in him. But all this means is that she was exadurating a bit. So perhaps looking at Revan wasn't like "looking into the heart of the force", but he still must have been something for Kreia to say such a thing.

I honestly don't know why you guys refuse to believe that Canderous's and Mandalore's praise means nothing. I can't recall the exact quote in KOTOR #1, but I know that Canderous says something about swift counter-attacks and mass deceptions (there's a lot more). Who does Canderous say is responsible for this stuff? Revan. Not Surik, not Karath, and not Alek. Revan. Seriously, you guys have played the game. You'll remember that Ordo PRAISES Revan. No just a compliment, a PRAISE. This is coming from a guys who studied war his whole life. So please for pete's sake admit that Revan was a skilled tactician.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.18.2012 , 07:42 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by khayyinx View Post
Ok, here we go again, argue with the most all-knowing of star wars ever...

1- Well, Revan was a jedi knight, who became a Dark Lord of the Sith, Darth Revan, what to me means that he is a master of the dark side and it is stated that he's one of the most powerfull sith etc. After that he goes to the light side again and became a jedi MASTER (it is stated in the novel), which again, to me, means that he is a master of the light side. So, yes he mastered both sides of the force.
About the lightsaber fighting, it is stated that he was one of the best dualist of his time, wich was a time with a LOT of fighter both from dark and light sides and mandalorians, etc. So, even that we can't confirm that he mastered any lightsaber style, he probably did, and if he didn't, there is no difference, because he's still one of the bests.

2- He was a tactical genius as stated before, praised for a lot of fighters including mandalorians that are all about war. Just because you don't think he is and have no arguments to base this doesn't means he wasn't. You must remember that we don't know the majority of things made by Revan, actually, we know almost nothing about him and there could be situations that aren't shown to players that only canderous have seen.

3- Yes, he used both sides of the force. In the same time? No, not in the same instant but he could, for example, heal his wounds with force heal (light side) and after that kill someone with force lightning or force storm (dark side). This is use both sides of the force.
Also, he isn't the only one to do that. Kyle Katarn could do that too and so luke skywalker. Although they didn't like to use dark side powers fearing to fall to dark side.

Oh, and **** G-canon, **** what George Lucas says, he doesn't even cares for what he says and the repercussion that it would have.



This is so true. The novel and the game screwed with Revan character.
1. A title does not make you a master. Darth Revan was the servant of the Dark Side, not the other way around. The only man who can claim mastery of the Dark Side is Darth Sidious. And Revan was made Jedi Master at the request of the people. Had it been up to the Jedi Council, they would have exiled him because of his teachings.

2. *cough* character statement *cough* Read my review of his tactics.

3. Revan could not control the Dark powers and would have fallen eventually. He could not even control himself, how could he control the corrupting powers of the Dark Side.

Just because G-Canon doesn't conform to your views doesn't make it non-canon.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.18.2012 , 07:46 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Swarlesx View Post
1- You are acting as if using and mastering are the same thing. They are not. Luke Skywalker had knowledge of and mastered abilities of the darkside but never used them because he was a Jedi. Revan lived two lives and mastered two sides of the force. But because of his light alignment he did not use any powers of the darkside. Once regaining his memories he would have all knowledge of what powers he learned. I think Revan was or possible above the level of Jedi Master. You have little proof that never mastered and force abilities. I don't know about saber forms but he did defeat Malek in one on one combat and Malek was known to be a very good duelist.

2- You say he is not a tactical genius. Characters in the game including some mandolorians say he is. So I am going to take their word over yours.

This isnt very "In-depth". Its obvious that you are sick of people making Revan look god like so you are really underplaying him.
Revan did not "master" any sides. Mastering either side of the Force requires conviction. Revan has no conviction in the Force. He constantly flip-flops on what side he uses, never being capable of mastering any side. Very few Jedi/Sith have mastered an aspect of the Force. Revan will never reach that goal either.

2. CHARACTER STATEMENT!

I think I covered the misconceptions very well. That's what i set out to do. You're just upset that I haven't conformed to the "Revan is god" ideal yet.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.18.2012 , 07:48 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
^^ Well said (with the exception of what you said about G-canon).

I'd like to talk about the whole "mastery" thing though. Did he master the force? No. But who has mastered the force? Not many. Revan displayed a great understanding of the force by becoming a powerful user of both sides (at different times). It's obvious that Revan had a great understanding of the force. Didn't Darth Bane himself say that Revan was a very powerful being?

Also - would someone explain to me why the following quote from Kreia ISN'T reliable?
"Looking at Revan was like looking into the heart of the force."
- yes, Kreia lies a lot, but there isn't a good reason for her to lie on this subject. She doesn't lie aimlessly. There's always a purpose, and I can't see the point in lying in this since.
- could she have been stretching the truth here? Possibly. Revan was her apprentice so she must have had great pride in him. But all this means is that she was exadurating a bit. So perhaps looking at Revan wasn't like "looking into the heart of the force", but he still must have been something for Kreia to say such a thing.

I honestly don't know why you guys refuse to believe that Canderous's and Mandalore's praise means nothing. I can't recall the exact quote in KOTOR #1, but I know that Canderous says something about swift counter-attacks and mass deceptions (there's a lot more). Who does Canderous say is responsible for this stuff? Revan. Not Surik, not Karath, and not Alek. Revan. Seriously, you guys have played the game. You'll remember that Ordo PRAISES Revan. No just a compliment, a PRAISE. This is coming from a guys who studied war his whole life. So please for pete's sake admit that Revan was a skilled tactician.
Character statements... This post is full of them.

/sigh

Character statements are non-canon...
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

steaktrooper's Avatar


steaktrooper
11.18.2012 , 07:48 PM | #25
Brace yourselves friends, the Revan fanboys are coming
Lembar Romdoro Agenros Cavteff
Sith Covenant / Jedi Covenant @ The Harbinger

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.18.2012 , 07:50 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Rayla_Felana View Post
Achieving mastery over an aspect of the force is not the same as a title, that's absolutely ludicrous, if someone achieves mastery over the Dark Side, it would be listed, same for the Light Side, Revan doesn't have this listed nor has he displayed power enough to claim mastery over an aspect of the force.

We know plenty about what happened in the Mandalorian Wars, honestly the whole Revan shtick is beyond overblown, he used the Mandalorian tactics against them(Kreia states exactly this in multiple conversations) but he had six times the manpower and a whole host of Jedi Knights, not only that he had mastermind admirals and great generals like Surik, Alek and Kavar(up to a point), hell Surik led half the Republic fleet on her own and won major victories across the front on worlds like Dxun and Serroco, then led the attack herself on Malachor V, so you see, it wasn't even all Revan to begin with.

We are talking about actively using both sides of the force at the same time, it is not possible, using a few powers affiliated with one side or the other is entirely different.

Revanite logic, if canon doesn't conform to your POV, canon is stupid and nobody should take it seriously.
That is not our logic at all. You are generalized BIG time. Know what generalizing is? It is a logical falacy. Quit using it. Just because I'm arguing for Revan doesn't mean my logic is poor (although there are many who argue for Revan using bad logic).

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.18.2012 , 07:55 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Revan did not "master" any sides. Mastering either side of the Force requires conviction. Revan has no conviction in the Force. He constantly flip-flops on what side he uses, never being capable of mastering any side. Very few Jedi/Sith have mastered an aspect of the Force. Revan will never reach that goal either.

2. CHARACTER STATEMENT!

I think I covered the misconceptions very well. That's what i set out to do. You're just upset that I haven't conformed to the "Revan is god" ideal yet.
Constantly flip-flopped? He flip-flopped #1 time.

Revan has no conviction in the force? Sounds like speculation.

MasterMe's Avatar


MasterMe
11.18.2012 , 07:58 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Character statements... This post is full of them.

/sigh

Character statements are non-canon...
Okay, teach me. What is the canon level of character statements? Why wouldn't they be canon? Are you telling me we should just totally forget everything that characters ever said in all of Star Wars? Wow. If that's the case, then why are we debating this?

Seems like you're just trying to discredit my quotes because they contradict your argument. I'll make sure and point it out next time you quote someone. Let's see how you like it.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.18.2012 , 08:03 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Constantly flip-flopped? He flip-flopped #1 time.

Revan has no conviction in the force? Sounds like speculation.
Flip-flopped may be the wrong word, but he does lack conviction. He sacrifices Jedi teachings during the Mandalorian Wars for victory. Other generations of Jedi in his position would not. The truly powerful will protect all lives, not just the important ones. Revan sacrificed worlds for victory. Other Jedi would have devised a strategy that would gain victory, but save the most lives.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.18.2012 , 08:05 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Okay, teach me. What is the canon level of character statements? Why wouldn't they be canon? Are you telling me we should just totally forget everything that characters ever said in all of Star Wars? Wow. If that's the case, then why are we debating this?

Seems like you're just trying to discredit my quotes because they contradict your argument. I'll make sure and point it out next time you quote someone. Let's see how you like it.
I'll ignore the tone for the sake of knowledge...

Character statements are non-canon because they do not come from an official source. Official meaning George, Chee etc. Written Characters are not official sources.

Refer to a sourcebook for more accurate information on certain characters.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"You felt it; the power of hate. The power of the Dark Side. Your eyes are opened. You see now. The power burns more brightly, stronger on the Dark Side. Despite what the Council had taught you, you now know the truth."- Count Dooku