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Revisiting An in-depth look at: Revan

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
Revisiting An in-depth look at: Revan

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.18.2012 , 03:34 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Crawelc View Post
Non flame question, every time I have played a grey jedi in a game I have walked the line of using both sides of the force. This game also makes it possible to be grey in affiliation, allthough poorly implemented, so does that just not fit into cannon at all?
The alignment system is a game mechanic. Jedi and Sith can not "walk the line."

Edit: Plus all of Revan's canon deeds in KOTOR are Light side choices.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.18.2012 , 03:39 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
Both Mandolore and Canderous Ordo (soon to be Mandolore) praised Revan's tactics. Take it however you want but it's truth and I believe it means that Revan is a great tactician.

As for the oneness of the force thing - the novel never says that. This means that you are speculating. Does it seem like he was one with the force? Maybe, but the book never says that he was one with the force so you can't assume this.

But you're right about using two sides of the force. No arguments there.

We could go into Revan's dueling skills, force powers, and other stuff, but you didn't mention that in the original post - so I'll stay on topic.
The two Mandalore's praised his tactics? That would be a kind of character statement. He used Mandalorian tactics, combined with his superior Jedi numbers, to gain the victory. He did not create a tactic, or set of tactics, that completely outwitted the Mandalorians. His aggression caught them flat-footed, and that caused their downfall.

The description in the book causes confusion for casual readers who do not know the subtleties of the Force and do not know what is and is not canon. Using both sides of the Force is against G-Canon. Which makes it impossible. Once you have eliminated the impossible, what remains must be the truth.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

Crawelc's Avatar


Crawelc
11.18.2012 , 03:58 PM | #13
Well you should be thrilled Aubere we have D-Canon to look forward to lol.
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Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
11.18.2012 , 04:04 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Crawelc View Post
Well you should be thrilled Aubere we have D-Canon to look forward to lol.
Can't wait...

I'm sure Leland Chee will figure out how to keep everything organized. Unless they fire him. Which would be the worst thing they could do.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"My ultimate goal is the secret of life-that life that gives us consciousness, for without consciousness each of us is nothing. Through science, i will create new life and sustain my own. There is no reason Darth Plagueis could not live forever."

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
11.18.2012 , 04:36 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by MasterMe View Post
As for the oneness of the force thing - the novel never says that. This means that you are speculating. Does it seem like he was one with the force? Maybe, but the book never says that he was one with the force so you can't assume this.
Given that it's the only logical explanation, it is not speculation.

Genuine's Avatar


Genuine
11.18.2012 , 04:58 PM | #16
Is there only me who does not care what G canon says...... do'nt get me going on the upcoming D-Canon lol
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Darth_Urtani's Avatar


Darth_Urtani
11.18.2012 , 06:09 PM | #17
Revan is who you want him/her to be. You'd have to be completely stupid to take anything outside of KOTOR (about any of the characters) seriously/canon.
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khayyinx's Avatar


khayyinx
11.18.2012 , 06:11 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Since I have already given a historical overview of Revan in the first thread of this series, I thought I would dedicate this thread to clearing up those nasty little misconceptions surrounding him. I am so going to get flamed for this, but who cares? Let's get to it.

Mastered both sides of the Force? No. What we have here is people jumping to conclusions. Revan did not master either side of the Force. He did not master any abilities. He did not master any Lightsaber Forms. He was a proficient user in many various abilities, but not a master. Revan could not comprehend how to master either side of the Force, because he could not master himself.

Tactical Genius? No. Another misconception. Revan was not a tactical genius. During the Mandalorian Wars, he used the Mandalorian tactics and superior Jedi numbers to gain victory. During the Jedi Civil War, he had Admiral Saul Karath and several other Republic officials that knew Republic tactics. Revan created tactics with Admiral Karath to counter everything the Republic would do against them. That does not make him a tactical genius. If it did, Thrawn would be a tactical god. Which he is, but a greater one going by that standard.

Used both sides of the Force simultaneously? Not only is that impossible by G-canon, but it is also impossible physically, mentally, and in the Force. And no, Revan is not a special case (an argument I heard recently... you know who you are). It is impossible to use both sides simultaneously, not just because of G-canon, but also because of the toll it would take on the body, mind and spirit. It's been tried before, with disastrous results. What we have here is Revan entering a brief moment of Oneness with the Force. A moment in which Revan was enveloped into the Force and unleashed its full power. But first time readers of that novel (what passes for a novel) will never know that because of the wording, in combination with a lack of knowledge in canon and the Force, casual readers will take it as they see it.

I'm sure I missed some, so any of you that actually know Revan can add to it. So going to get flamed for this.

If you have a topic you would like to see in the future, post them below or PM me.
Ok, here we go again, argue with the most all-knowing of star wars ever...

1- Well, Revan was a jedi knight, who became a Dark Lord of the Sith, Darth Revan, what to me means that he is a master of the dark side and it is stated that he's one of the most powerfull sith etc. After that he goes to the light side again and became a jedi MASTER (it is stated in the novel), which again, to me, means that he is a master of the light side. So, yes he mastered both sides of the force.
About the lightsaber fighting, it is stated that he was one of the best dualist of his time, wich was a time with a LOT of fighter both from dark and light sides and mandalorians, etc. So, even that we can't confirm that he mastered any lightsaber style, he probably did, and if he didn't, there is no difference, because he's still one of the bests.

2- He was a tactical genius as stated before, praised for a lot of fighters including mandalorians that are all about war. Just because you don't think he is and have no arguments to base this doesn't means he wasn't. You must remember that we don't know the majority of things made by Revan, actually, we know almost nothing about him and there could be situations that aren't shown to players that only canderous have seen.

3- Yes, he used both sides of the force. In the same time? No, not in the same instant but he could, for example, heal his wounds with force heal (light side) and after that kill someone with force lightning or force storm (dark side). This is use both sides of the force.
Also, he isn't the only one to do that. Kyle Katarn could do that too and so luke skywalker. Although they didn't like to use dark side powers fearing to fall to dark side.

Oh, and **** G-canon, **** what George Lucas says, he doesn't even cares for what he says and the repercussion that it would have.

Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Urtani View Post
Revan is who you want him/her to be. You'd have to be completely stupid to take anything outside of KOTOR (about any of the characters) seriously/canon.
This is so true. The novel and the game screwed with Revan character.

Swarlesx's Avatar


Swarlesx
11.18.2012 , 06:36 PM | #19
1- You are acting as if using and mastering are the same thing. They are not. Luke Skywalker had knowledge of and mastered abilities of the darkside but never used them because he was a Jedi. Revan lived two lives and mastered two sides of the force. But because of his light alignment he did not use any powers of the darkside. Once regaining his memories he would have all knowledge of what powers he learned. I think Revan was or possible above the level of Jedi Master. You have little proof that never mastered and force abilities. I don't know about saber forms but he did defeat Malek in one on one combat and Malek was known to be a very good duelist.

2- You say he is not a tactical genius. Characters in the game including some mandolorians say he is. So I am going to take their word over yours.

This isnt very "In-depth". Its obvious that you are sick of people making Revan look god like so you are really underplaying him.

Rayla_Felana's Avatar


Rayla_Felana
11.18.2012 , 06:38 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by khayyinx View Post
Ok, here we go again, argue with the most all-knowing of star wars ever...

1- Well, Revan was a jedi knight, who became a Dark Lord of the Sith, Darth Revan, what to me means that he is a master of the dark side and it is stated that he's one of the most powerfull sith etc. After that he goes to the light side again and became a jedi MASTER (it is stated in the novel), which again, to me, means that he is a master of the light side. So, yes he mastered both sides of the force.
About the lightsaber fighting, it is stated that he was one of the best dualist of his time, wich was a time with a LOT of fighter both from dark and light sides and mandalorians, etc. So, even that we can't confirm that he mastered any lightsaber style, he probably did, and if he didn't, there is no difference, because he's still one of the bests.

2- He was a tactical genius as stated before, praised for a lot of fighters including mandalorians that are all about war. Just because you don't think he is and have no arguments to base this doesn't means he wasn't. You must remember that we don't know the majority of things made by Revan, actually, we know almost nothing about him and there could be situations that aren't shown to players that only canderous have seen.

3- Yes, he used both sides of the force. In the same time? No, not in the same instant but he could, for example, heal his wounds with force heal (light side) and after that kill someone with force lightning or force storm (dark side). This is use both sides of the force.
Also, he isn't the only one to do that. Kyle Katarn could do that too and so luke skywalker. Although they didn't like to use dark side powers fearing to fall to dark side.

Oh, and **** G-canon, **** what George Lucas says, he doesn't even cares for what he says and the repercussion that it would have.



This is so true. The novel and the game screwed with Revan character.
Achieving mastery over an aspect of the force is not the same as a title, that's absolutely ludicrous, if someone achieves mastery over the Dark Side, it would be listed, same for the Light Side, Revan doesn't have this listed nor has he displayed power enough to claim mastery over an aspect of the force.

We know plenty about what happened in the Mandalorian Wars, honestly the whole Revan shtick is beyond overblown, he used the Mandalorian tactics against them(Kreia states exactly this in multiple conversations) but he had six times the manpower and a whole host of Jedi Knights, not only that he had mastermind admirals and great generals like Surik, Alek and Kavar(up to a point), hell Surik led half the Republic fleet on her own and won major victories across the front on worlds like Dxun and Serroco, then led the attack herself on Malachor V, so you see, it wasn't even all Revan to begin with.

We are talking about actively using both sides of the force at the same time, it is not possible, using a few powers affiliated with one side or the other is entirely different.

Revanite logic, if canon doesn't conform to your POV, canon is stupid and nobody should take it seriously.