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To the biased Sents/Maras defending their OP class

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
To the biased Sents/Maras defending their OP class

Derian's Avatar


Derian
04.28.2012 , 09:00 PM | #441
Quote: Originally Posted by Guioki View Post
Even better, guaranteed damage reduction vs possible damage reduction.
It is. However, we don't have taunt/AOE taunt which lowers multiple enemies damage by 20 (or is it 30?) percent either. We have skills that lower damage done to us. A PT has Skills that lower the damage of multiple attackers.

Which one is OP? Dunno which is more useful in a WZ?
Synion
Shards of Alderaan/Republic Justice

Jedi Sentinel-Watchman
Jedi Conqueror

Xerain's Avatar


Xerain
04.28.2012 , 09:09 PM | #442
Quote: Originally Posted by Guioki View Post
I play a Sorc and a Powertech~ and I've been through the same thing your going though now, which was people believing a class was OP because we scaled well early game, as in we weren't gear dependent at all (sorc).

Both classes who deal on par damage with the other dps classes, but heres the thing...

Sorc has a bubble that scales terribly (taking crits etc into account), powertech (dps) has a 20% damage bubble reduction for like 12 secs.

Mara however gets 20% damage reduction for 6-30 seconds, 50% weapon defense and 25% force/tech defense for 12(?) seconds, force camo with damage reduction on it and GBTF which is for some reason the only thing everyone is claiming is OP.

All of your defenses scale well with the new improved damage increases across the board, which is why your class has become far stronger.

Now all the people defending maras are saying if you do everything perfect then you can counter us, which is true... but at the same time if YOU were doing everything perfect on your mara you would be UN-counterable.
Someone earlier in the thread said that the sorc bubble blocks 4K damage. That's about 25% of your life and sorcs usually cast it on themselves a few times a fight, atleast two. So getting the bubble off twice is 50% or around 8k damage which is a lot. Add in the fact they can pop medacks and maybe heals (i see a ton using innervate now so it's a high probability) and we have to do enough damage to kill them up to maybe 2x which is a bit ridiculous but hey it's how it goes.

doctorfirepants's Avatar


doctorfirepants
04.28.2012 , 09:10 PM | #443
Quote: Originally Posted by Guioki View Post
I play a Sorc and a Powertech~ and I've been through the same thing your going though now, which was people believing a class was OP because we scaled well early game, as in we weren't gear dependent at all (sorc).

Both classes who deal on par damage with the other dps classes, but heres the thing...

Sorc has a bubble that scales terribly (taking crits etc into account), powertech (dps) has a 20% damage bubble reduction for like 12 secs.

Mara however gets 20% damage reduction for 6-30 seconds, 50% weapon defense and 25% force/tech defense for 12(?) seconds, force camo with damage reduction on it and GBTF which is for some reason the only thing everyone is claiming is OP.

All of your defenses scale well with the new improved damage increases across the board, which is why your class has become far stronger.

Now all the people defending maras are saying if you do everything perfect then you can counter us, which is true... but at the same time if YOU were doing everything perfect on your mara you would be UN-counterable.
I don't see how we would be uncounterable if we played perfectly....the whole point of our defensive CD's is that everything we do is counterable. Our only real ability that places our opponent inoperable is force choke, which does minimal damage and roots us in place as well. Any other time our opponent will have control of there character. Even if a carnage marauder specs ravage so that it roots the person in place, you still have the ability to fight back or CC. A sorc playing there character perfectly would be uncounterable by a marauder because they would always be out of range of the marauders attack, but we will always be in the others persons range no matter what. So yea, your argument is pretty pointless.
CE

Guioki's Avatar


Guioki
04.28.2012 , 09:14 PM | #444
Quote: Originally Posted by Derian View Post
It is. However, we don't have taunt/AOE taunt which lowers multiple enemies damage by 20 (or is it 30?) percent either. We have skills that lower damage done to us. A PT has Skills that lower the damage of multiple attackers.

Which one is OP? Dunno which is more useful in a WZ?
If were looking at a group environment you should be killing a DPS ptech first anyway, they have no escape and are almost as fragile as a sorc. Taunt does nothing if your using it on the person who cast it.

I'm very liberal with my taunts, I cast them almost whenever they are available and at the end of a warzone I might end up with 20k protection points (at most). The maras ability to reduce healing received by enemies by 20% is far more useful in a group environment.

Hell on my sorc I stick a dot on any powertechs around so if they do hit me with an aoe taunt it does nothing.

Basically it comes down to this: To counter a Mara you have to know which spec your fighting to pick which abilities to CC or try avoid. People used to say it was the hardest class to play, but in all honesty you have to know more about the class then the person playing it to be able to counter it.

Derian's Avatar


Derian
04.28.2012 , 09:22 PM | #445
Quote: Originally Posted by Guioki View Post
If were looking at a group environment you should be killing a DPS ptech first anyway, they have no escape and are almost as fragile as a sorc. Taunt does nothing if your using it on the person who cast it.

I'm very liberal with my taunts, I cast them almost whenever they are available and at the end of a warzone I might end up with 20k protection points (at most). The maras ability to reduce healing received by enemies by 20% is far more useful in a group environment.

Hell on my sorc I stick a dot on any powertechs around so if they do hit me with an aoe taunt it does nothing.

Basically it comes down to this: To counter a Mara you have to know which spec your fighting to pick which abilities to CC or try avoid. People used to say it was the hardest class to play, but in all honesty you have to know more about the class then the person playing it to be able to counter it.
No, you should be killing the healer first. Just because an ability may be useless doesn't mean that it is. Rebuke is useless if nobody attacks us. You still have these very powerful abilities. Don't call a Sentinel's abilities OP, when you have the ability to lower the damage of multiple attackers drastically when you are DPS, and you can off tank as well.

"The maras ability to reduce healing received by enemies by 20% is far more useful in a group environment." No, it isn't more useful than taunt. It has a 15 second CD, you can theoretically lower the damage of 8 attackers by 30%.

"Basically it comes down to this: To counter a Mara you have to know which spec your fighting to pick which abilities to CC or try avoid. People used to say it was the hardest class to play, but in all honesty you have to know more about the class then the person playing it to be able to counter it"

That's incredibly obvious by looking at their buff bar. You don't have to know more than the person playing it. I just force stasis any marauder that is near death. They do the same to me, It's very easy to counter GBTF. The lack of people complaining about Force Fade, yet acting like GBTF is the end of the world, is a testament to the lack of understanding the PVP community has.

I have a Vanguard. 20k from straight taunts is great, when you consider who those taunts are used against. Don't pretend like Taunt is useless. Guard/Taunt/AOE taunt are VERY potent abilities. Only bads underestimate this.
Synion
Shards of Alderaan/Republic Justice

Jedi Sentinel-Watchman
Jedi Conqueror

Crawelc's Avatar


Crawelc
04.28.2012 , 09:23 PM | #446
Guioki, grats to you for saying plainly the problem people are having with sent/mara, and not crying about some imaginary 31/31/31 spec. The Sent that put 2 roots on you in a wz is not the same one doting you or doing massive sweeps.
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Guioki's Avatar


Guioki
04.28.2012 , 09:26 PM | #447
Quote: Originally Posted by Xerain View Post
Someone earlier in the thread said that the sorc bubble blocks 4K damage. That's about 25% of your life and sorcs usually cast it on themselves a few times a fight, atleast two. So getting the bubble off twice is 50% or around 8k damage which is a lot. Add in the fact they can pop medacks and maybe heals (i see a ton using innervate now so it's a high probability) and we have to do enough damage to kill them up to maybe 2x which is a bit ridiculous but hey it's how it goes.
Someone earlier in this thread lied? Innervate is not in a dps tree? Maras can use medpacks too and they heal more effective health due to maras having more DR (from abilities and armor)? 20% of 16k = 3200, so with current TTK one single ability of yours is as good as every defensive cooldown a sorc has? You get that 3200, plus your 50% weapon 25% force/tech so theres your double bubble countered, then you have GBTF and Force cammo?

People claim maras are a 1v1 class, but 1v1 a sorc stands more chance then he would in a group enviroment, flat damage protection (sorc bubble) scales worse with more enemies then a damage reduction % would. Maras are the ultimate team DPS.

Guioki's Avatar


Guioki
04.28.2012 , 09:40 PM | #448
"No, you should be killing the healer first. Just because an ability may be useless doesn't mean that it is. Rebuke is useless if nobody attacks us. You still have these very powerful abilities. Don't call a Sentinel's abilities OP, when you have the ability to lower the damage of multiple attackers drastically when you are DPS, and you can off tank as well. "

I should be killing a healer with the current TTK? There is a reason why people can just ignore a healer and focus fire a squishy dps since 1.2. Stun a healer for 4 seconds or throw an interrupt and burst everyone down. You need to adapt to 1.2, maybe that is why you think maras aren't currently the most powerful class (or maras+tanksins cause they are redic too).

Rebuke is useless if you cast it any nobody attacks you, at the same time if nobody has attacked you... why would you complain? I thought every ability your class used had to be countered or you would be guaranteed a win?

I'm sorry are you comparing a DPS mara to a TANK ptech? Because to off tank I would have to go to tank stance and reduce my dps/heat reduction by pretty much half (sexy change they made in 1.2)
Saying aoe taunt is worse then 20% reduced healing because reduced healing has a 15 second cooldown? Ok... I'll spam my aoe taunt that magically lost its cooldown in 1.2...

Seriously I don't think you know enough about other classes to argue that yours isn't OP.

Thundartwothree's Avatar


Thundartwothree
04.28.2012 , 09:45 PM | #449
Quote: Originally Posted by Guioki View Post
Someone earlier in this thread lied? Innervate is not in a dps tree? Maras can use medpacks too and they heal more effective health due to maras having more DR (from abilities and armor)? 20% of 16k = 3200, so with current TTK one single ability of yours is as good as every defensive cooldown a sorc has? You get that 3200, plus your 50% weapon 25% force/tech so theres your double bubble countered, then you have GBTF and Force cammo?

People claim maras are a 1v1 class, but 1v1 a sorc stands more chance then he would in a group enviroment, flat damage protection (sorc bubble) scales worse with more enemies then a damage reduction % would. Maras are the ultimate team DPS.
I agree with some of what you're saying here, but I would like to point out that bubble is indeed castable on others, and while it may not equal the total damage reduction of Rebuke and Sabre Ward over the corse of a fight for the Sorc/Sage alone, the ability to use it on others should not be ignored in the least.
I will reach my field of battle at any means at my disposal, and when I get there I will arrive violently, no one will deny me, no one will defy me.

Xerain's Avatar


Xerain
04.28.2012 , 09:52 PM | #450
Quote: Originally Posted by Guioki View Post
Someone earlier in this thread lied? Innervate is not in a dps tree? Maras can use medpacks too and they heal more effective health due to maras having more DR (from abilities and armor)? 20% of 16k = 3200, so with current TTK one single ability of yours is as good as every defensive cooldown a sorc has? You get that 3200, plus your 50% weapon 25% force/tech so theres your double bubble countered, then you have GBTF and Force cammo?

People claim maras are a 1v1 class, but 1v1 a sorc stands more chance then he would in a group enviroment, flat damage protection (sorc bubble) scales worse with more enemies then a damage reduction % would. Maras are the ultimate team DPS.
I never said innervate is in the dps tree. i said i see a lot of sorcs running around with a hybrid healing/lightning spec. Every single one of my abilities does not hit for 3200, one does and it's on a 10.5 second cool down (7 seconds at lowest and that's if i can keep the annihilate buff up).

And Sorcs are the ultimate team utility. MORE bubble blinds please i love those things and hate them.