Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

The company that changed the game industry

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Community Content
The company that changed the game industry

Rimca's Avatar


Rimca
03.15.2012 , 06:21 AM | #1
Is it possible that gamers feel that preordering has been unfair to them?

Is it possible that after many time that we trusted game company with our money on a game trailer/teaser, that we feel misleaded to some expensive extend?

Obviously, and this has been going on for sometime now, the industry(leading) has became a money machine and it's not anymore about game for gamers but games for the money.

Who cares what the game is ? Certainely not EA (with Bioware in front because they are so cool at EA)

People, Gamers, Girls and Boys ..
You all have been steamrolled by companies promoting game for what it could be and not for what it actually is. Wallet steamrolled !!

In the 80's they did forbid false advertisement for kids where you could see toys flying or doing anything on their own on TV. Kids believe that the toys would actually do that once out of the box. Of course with game it's all artistic because i'm a fan but nonetheless disapointing.

Aren't we the kids of the 80's for that matter, figuratively speaking or not ....
Aren't we disapointed that our games don't fly for real like they showed us in the sneak preview.
Why oh why they always release a cheap copy of the real games, the one i always see in those wonderfull trailers. The real game wil be completed after this patch but first the developper has to speak with a lot of NPC which rob them of hours of work, bloody silly developping quest.

When was the last time you actually bought a game that would deliver a clever and original gameplay instead of a copy of other gameplay from other successfull games ? The industry don't take a gamble anymore, but why do they make games on the first place? money? At this rate it cost ever more that it wil ever return/earn.
Why do they invest in those crazy production with no garantee but only risk and risk assessment, and the only garantee they look for is to make something like other because the other one sell. Sure sound like banking swap...

I can say that financing and helping indy game developpers would actually produce some never seen before gameplay eventually, something the industry wil never achieve on their own.

Anyway like my sensei used to said : "some people deserve a high five ... in the face ... with a chair "
"May the Geek be with you"

shama's Avatar


shama
03.15.2012 , 07:00 AM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Rimca View Post
The industry don't take a gamble anymore, but why do they make games on the first place? money? At this rate it cost ever more that it wil ever return/earn.
Developers make games because they love games. Yes, they want to make money from them too. Otherwise they won't be making games for very long.
And you're wrong that "it cost ever more that it wil ever return/earn" otherwise no company would be making games! Sure it is a high-risk/high-return industry ... if you have a hit you can make a lot of money back. But for every hit there are tens and hundreds of games that did nothing.



Quote: Originally Posted by Rimca View Post
Why do they invest in those crazy production with no garantee but only risk and risk assessment
What?! You say they don't take a gamble, and then that they invest in crazy productions with no guarantees ... that sounds like gambling.

Quote: Originally Posted by Rimca View Post
I can say that financing and helping indy game developpers would actually produce some never seen before gameplay eventually, something the industry wil never achieve on their own.
Sure Indies play a role and have more flexibility to experiment, but you're wrong if you think that the professional industry doesn't come up with innovations.
Just off the top of my head ...
User generated content tools build right into the game itself? Neverwinter Nights, Little Big Planet, many others ....
New control input methods ...
Nintendo (wii), Microsoft (kinect), Sony (move, singstar), Activision (guitars/drums), Sega (Samba Di Amigo)
Going even further back ...
Polygon graphics, synthesised sound effects, real-time lighting.

Remember, everything you are playing now was invented by the games industry in the first place. It is easy to vilify them, but really - take a step back and appreciate the innovation that has happened and will continue to happen.
Quote: Originally Posted by Bertrand Russell
One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision

RebelWeasel's Avatar


RebelWeasel
03.15.2012 , 08:24 AM | #3
I am aware of this trend in video gaming, and especially how it's been in SWTOR.

I've been listening to friends rant about another game this week because it didn't 'deliver what was promised'. The only thing I can say to you, and to the angry people is this:
  • This is a business.
  • These people do not love you, they are not your personal friends.
  • A business exists to make money for its owners.
  • Business advertising has been dishonest for centuries and unlikely to change soon.

I am not going to jump on a bandwagon to bash BioWare because I see them for what they are. A business, trying to earn money, with some good people, some bad people, some emotionally traumatized people. Sadly, they made it clear at the summit that they still have certain business standards that are less than honest with their customers. Because I see them clearly, I don't have the huge emotional upset that a lot of other people seem to be going through over SWTOR and ME3.

I watched the Marketing Panel of the Guild Leader Summit. Not one single person stood up and demanded higher ethics and truth in their advertising. They wanted cute action figure toys to blow more of their money on, not Truth in Advertising. I do not feel that the ethical and economically thrifty minority was well represented by the participants of this summit. These were people who obviously had a lot of money, and were willing to throw it away at trivial things.

The problem is, my single game purchase or subscription fee isn't enough to hurt them.
This is an economic class-based problem. Those who have the power (money) to hurt BW by withdrawing their support, also don't value their power enough to care about tiny things like being misled or lied to. They're not as seriously hurt by wasting that money as someone on a tighter budget would be. Those who live on less money value it more and are more likely to demand proper value for their coin, but because there are fewer people living lifestyles that demand they count their budget more tightly, this means they then have less power than the ones who don't care because they can afford not to care.

In the end, because the people who actually demand ethic business practices like truth in advertising are fairly powerless to stop this trend from a business, we have to instead look at it as if we're in a dysfunctional relationship rather than as a business. Here's some great advice about how to deal with someone in a relationship who repeatedly hurts and lies to you:
  1. Admit you have no power over them and accept that SWTOR and BioWare are not going to stop doing unfair things just to make the ethical minority happy.
  2. Stop believing the lies. Stop letting youself be jerked around by their con artist marketing practices and your own dreams and desires. Recognize that some lies are our own self-delusions of what we hope we get, versus actual promises made.
  3. Once you stop believing the lies, then you can have a little breathing room to tell yourself to stop building up unrealistic hopes and expectations for any product you look at from BioWare. Start seeing it for what it IS not for what they TELL YOU it is.
  4. Set clear, healthy boundaries. I posted four of mine with BW below.
  5. If you still can't be happy with the end-result of your relationship with their games and their marketing tactics... walk away. Why are you continuing to hurt yourself in this bad relationship? Stop buying their games. Play something else.

The definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over but expect different results. Customers of BW have many years' of history complaining about BioWare marketing tactics. Enough is enough. Some people are literally wasting 5-10 hours a day posting, making videos, and ranting over BioWare. Some of them are becoming irrational and lashing out at people around them.

I don't mean the OP post, but yeah, I've had quite a few friends lash out at me because I can't work myself into enough of a righteous anger over ME3 and SWTOR. I have a healthy and distant relationship with BW, so I'm not as affected. I came within a millimeter of breaking up with my lover over this issue because when he gets worked up over BioWare... he's simply a real jerk and takes it out on people around him. IS YOUR PERSONAL LIFE WORTH RUINING OVER A VIDEO GAME?

No. It's not. So walk away, if you can't control your emotions and handle your powerlessness over it. not to the OP but a blatant reference to my own friends and loves who are being real jerks over this issue to me) then walk away?


So here are the boundaries I set between myself and BW. Please note: I put myself first in that sentence, and I put myself first in my priorities in real life as well. Perhaps you can take this and learn to use them yourself. If enough people really do it, perhaps it can affect them economically enough for them to be willing to open dialogs with us over the discrepancy between marketing tactics versus product released. Heck, perhaps they should hire me as a Philosophical Advisor because they obviously need help sorting out moral choices in their story-lines as well LOL.
  1. I will not buy a collector's or deluxe version of their games again until they have released a minimum of 3 new games where they didn't short-change the purchasers. Why? Because they've repeatedly told buyers they would receive helpful items and exclusive things, then immediately (in the case of SWTOR BEFORE LAUNCH) given those items away at a lesser cost or for free, sometimes even BETTER items than the CE version! Why 3 new games? Because it's been about 3 games released now by BioWare that I've heard this being an issue: Mass Effect, SWTOR, and Dragon Age all had similar complaints against them after releases.
  2. I have STOPPED following all non-event based Tweets and Facebook issues from the game sites. Why? Well first of all, their advertising for ME3 was pure and simple harassment because of the high volume, and unnecessarily repeated content. They were literally pushing their drug so hard it took me 2 hours to clear all their posts off my wall in Facebook. I will no longer give them that emotional opening to me to push and urge and nitpick me to death to buy more of their products based on feeling harassed into it or peer-pressured, rather than critical thinking and an unbiased choice. If you stop opening the door to their marketing department by reading all their garbage.... you take away their power to manipulate you.
  3. I have set a time limit on SWTOR for the issues I feel need to be addressed. These issues consist of 1) Things that should have been/were promised at launch. 2) Fixes of systems which are available but not functioning correctly. 3) Issues which are outright obstructive towards fostering community spirit and fellowship. 4) Issues of misleading people, hyping things up, making promises they can't keep, and even worse, teasing and luring people in with subjects they immediately refuse to talk about as being "a secret surprise".

    If those issues are not dealt with within the time period I set for them, I'm done with the game and end my subscription. This is called "setting a boundary". Yes, I want to support them, but faith in promises, charm, personality, broken promises, and false advertising do NOT belong in a business or personal relationship.

  4. I tell anyone else who has a similar interest in my concerns and the boundaries I've set for BioWare, as a company, and SWTOR as a game.

I know this was a huge post. I hope it gives the OP and anyone else with similar concerns some direction toward solving the feeling of hurt and disillusionment that so many people seem to be feeling right now.

Once again, let me stress that I do not want to be "BioWare bashing" here. I think they have great potential, make some great games, and seem to be genuinely happy sincere people. I also think a lot of the anger and rage I see right now against them is based on ignorance, mob-thinking mentalities, and people who have way too much emotional investment in their video games to be considered healthy. This controversy is a two-way street.

I do wish BioWare would be willing to take a gamble. They should take a step forward into an ideal future of business and marketing. Drop the old dinosaur business tactics in advertising. They put themselves out in their social media as trying to be friends with their customers, etc etc. Let's see if they can take a challenge, and put their money on the line by trying to be more ethical in their marketing too. If they pulled it off... they could end up being the un-contested leader of video game production. There's no need for so much controversy and bitterness from their customers. They should be the better business and take a leap.
My curiosity is stronger than your security measure.
Game Revolution Radio

Rimca's Avatar


Rimca
03.15.2012 , 03:55 PM | #4
Thank you for your reply, you brought a lot of deph to my clumsy post. thanks

Money is indeed the destructive luxury of not caring, i mean for those who can affort it

Money is the buisness of profesional, amateurs do it for the pleasure of doing it.

Given that, I can only imagine the creativity of someone trying to create something to make money.
While i can dream of someone showing is creativity for the sake of it.

In a more swtor way I don't play it anymore. I'll check it out sometime in the future.
I don't think about it much either, I just wanted to post some thoughts I had in the back of my head a while ago. no big deal.
I'm really impress by the sheer size of your reply, man i got the be carefull.
"May the Geek be with you"

RobNightfall's Avatar


RobNightfall
03.15.2012 , 04:33 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by RebelWeasel View Post

  1. I will not buy a collector's or deluxe version of their games again until they have released a minimum of 3 new games where they didn't short-change the purchasers. Why? Because they've repeatedly told buyers they would receive helpful items and exclusive things, then immediately (in the case of SWTOR BEFORE LAUNCH) given those items away at a lesser cost or for free, sometimes even BETTER items than the CE version! Why 3 new games? Because it's been about 3 games released now by BioWare that I've heard this being an issue: Mass Effect, SWTOR, and Dragon Age all had similar complaints against them after releases.
  2. I have STOPPED following all non-event based Tweets and Facebook issues from the game sites. Why? Well first of all, their advertising for ME3 was pure and simple harassment because of the high volume, and unnecessarily repeated content. They were literally pushing their drug so hard it took me 2 hours to clear all their posts off my wall in Facebook. I will no longer give them that emotional opening to me to push and urge and nitpick me to death to buy more of their products based on feeling harassed into it or peer-pressured, rather than critical thinking and an unbiased choice. If you stop opening the door to their marketing department by reading all their garbage.... you take away their power to manipulate you.
  3. I have set a time limit on SWTOR for the issues I feel need to be addressed. These issues consist of 1) Things that should have been/were promised at launch. 2) Fixes of systems which are available but not functioning correctly. 3) Issues which are outright obstructive towards fostering community spirit and fellowship. 4) Issues of misleading people, hyping things up, making promises they can't keep, and even worse, teasing and luring people in with subjects they immediately refuse to talk about as being "a secret surprise".

    If those issues are not dealt with within the time period I set for them, I'm done with the game and end my subscription. This is called "setting a boundary". Yes, I want to support them, but faith in promises, charm, personality, broken promises, and false advertising do NOT belong in a business or personal relationship.

  4. I tell anyone else who has a similar interest in my concerns and the boundaries I've set for BioWare, as a company, and SWTOR as a game.





Nice boundaries list.
Edited because the devs appear to have fixed at least 80% of the crap that was pissing me off.

Darth_Gao_Gao's Avatar


Darth_Gao_Gao
03.15.2012 , 05:02 PM | #6
i agree OP. the problem is this trend is very strong, and will only get worse. see: mass effect 3.

the fact is, we, the consumer, have allowed companies to pander to our lowest common denominator with great success. this is why games like cod13 continue to exist. we have nobody to blame but ourselves.

Caseygarland's Avatar


Caseygarland
03.16.2012 , 12:53 AM | #7
Bioware used to be what is considered an "A" grade gaming company but in recent years the company has been rapidly degrading. They have taken a new direction in attempting to create an MMO, which happens to bring in the most revenue if you can pull it off. This game is a complete embarrassment for both EA and Bioware. For the corporates, this game is a success because they made income, but for the consumers, this game is a complete disappointment for hundreds of thousands.

It's completely obvious that the Bioware development team has never created an MMO. The game is completely missing several key pillars required. Im not going to go into detail about what could be done to improve their game because to the high and mighty's, I'm just a grain of rice in the bowl. To those of you who have opinions and suggestions, continue to give ideas because in the end, it makes you feel better.

What you guys have to realize is that most of the big industry gaming companies's top priority is creating revenue. Anything after that is a bonus. So, 1) Make money. 2) Make an "A" grade MMO. 3) Purchasing new home on beach front. 4) Your ideas.

I know you guys want something new. Something not WoW. Something not Indy free-to-play. Something not Asian even. Something QUALITY and ENTERTAINING. Honestly though, your going to have to look somewhere else, that's not EA. It's sad to say it, because a company like EA / Bioware with so much potential and money, could create the next best thing. They just choose MONEY over ENTERTAINMENT.

A company tied down to strict deadlines and release dates is a company limiting their creativity and innovation, which also means money. Because IN THE END, better entertainment = better money. If you take stabs in the dark like they did with TOR and bring in other development companies 6 months (rumor) before the release to rush loads of extremely important content. Your going to get what we have today. Completely half-***'d end game content. In case they forgot, end game is where most people will be spending 90% of their gaming experience over the long run (mmo).

Let's not forget the NEW patch 1.2! Yes, lets release patches for content that SHOULD have been in the game at release.

Did any of you watch the summit? Most of the questions people asked were pretty dull to be honest. Most of them trivial, some of them good, and one of them hilarious. ( The RP'er asking about PvP fixes) Some of the questions asked that were decent, the dev's had no clue how to answer other than, we are looking into that or we have some ideas. How can you not know how to fix your game!?! Your BIOWARE! Again it comes back to the corporate mentality. 1) Money 2) fixing/finishing game after release.

I myself am a designer in the making. I have an incredible love for MMO's and video games in general and can't wait for more Indy companies and people like me to shock the giants into realizing that they should focus more on quality and kill these silly deadlines and nonsense. You can't rush quality, no matter how fat your wallet is.

Honestly, I don't see a way to get the corporate's attention. Boycotting EA products doesn't do a lot of good unless you have millions who are willing to do it. Not having many options as to which games to play these days, it's almost criminal for companies to create sub-par games and almost being forced into purchasing them.

All that being said, I personally am looking forward to GW2. I'm also looking forward to patch 1.2 sadly. I want to see what they can pull out of the hat before everyone heads for the life boats and turns the game into Warhammer 2.0.

Please feel free to add thoughts. I always like reading what other people think. One day I will be helping to develop games. So I've been listening to the community. Not just SWTOR, but the mass majority of MMO communities alike
[RUIN] Obolisk
R u i n G a m i n g