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Viable Build yes or no?


allexj's Avatar


allexj
01.03.2012 , 03:15 PM | #1
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Kitru
01.03.2012 , 03:42 PM | #2
What exactly are you trying to do? I'm going to assume you're building a tank since you put so many points into Kinetic Combat. Is it a PvE Tank? PvP Tank?

Assuming you're going for a PvE tank, I wouldn't say it's all that viable. Going up from the bottom...

Expertise is absolutely worthless. Combat Technique at level 50 provides roughly 30-40 DPS. Increasing that damage by 9% (Expertise only increases the damage dealt explicitly by Combat Technique, Force Technique, and Shadow Technique) is going to have no appreciable effect on either your threat, damage, or survivability when you consider that Project is going to be doing ~1000 damage a shot.

Elusiveness is an amazing talent as I see it. The benefit for reduced CD Force Speed is marginal at best, but the reduction in Resilience's CD is *amazing*. Since Resilience provide *full immunity* to Force and Tech powers for its 5 sec (talented) duration, getting that up more often means you can laugh your way through Project Storms, Force Storms, and all of the other obscene Force/Tech nastiness that gets thrown your way.

Mind Over Matter is amazing for much the same reason as Elusiveness: removing movement impairing effects with Force Speed is nice (especially for PvP), but the big money-maker is in the extended duration of Resilience. 3 seconds to 5 seconds means you're getting 66% more benefit out of Resilience over the long run, and it gives you *way* more leeway in when to use it to avoid spectacularly huge boss casts.

Shadowsight should always get the full 2/2 treatment. 1% defense is 1% less damage taken, especially since the "defense" provided by Shadowsight is actually 1% *resist chance* as well (meaning it applies to Force/Tech powers, not just melee/ranged). Since Force/Tech powers have this nasty habit of completely ripping through any tank's defenses, the chance to ignore these attacks is always nice.

Pinning Resolve is, honestly, not that useful for a tank. First off, Force Lift for Shadows is essentially a joke (8 sec incapacitate on a 1 min CD) and getting a second, generally unimportant target with a cast isn't that useful. It's also a 2 second cast, which isn't going to be useful when you're the primary target for a group. The 5 sec reduction in Force Stun's CD is also pretty minor. 60 secs to 55 secs isn't really what I would call an appreciable benefit, especially when it doesn't work on a vast majority of the big hard targets (re: the stuff you need a tank for).

If you're taking Force in Balance, you most definitely need to invest both points into Mental Potency. Without it, Force in Balance will demolish your Force pool.

Mind Ward is not particularly useful. There aren't really sufficient DoTs in the game compared to the direct damage caused to justify putting points into it as a tank. Also, keep in mind that Resilience (/angelicchorus) purges you of all debuffs, including DoTs, so, if you are getting destroyed by DoTs, Resilience will take care of them.

If you want to go with a Kinetic/Balance hybrid, use this spec. You get all of the important Kinetic talents (Bombardment is amazing, as are Stasis and Force Pull) as well as the important Balance ones (FiB and Force Strike, largely). It's not going to be the best tank (the self healing provided by FiB is vastly less than the 5% less damage you and your group will take with the Slow Time debuff; similarly, FiB may deal more damage, but it hits fewer targets than Slow Time, so you'll have a harder time with AoE threat than Shadow tanks already do), but it will largely suffice.

If you want the "pure" Shadow tank (best survivability, best threat), this is the spec.
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Keeroe
01.03.2012 , 04:35 PM | #3
It looks like it could work, one suggestion I would make is this: 18/2/16

Basically take 2 out of Mind ward and put them in Shadow's Respite. I haven't come across many MoBs that deal bleed damage, that I was worried about, nor have I seen it too much in PvP to use it in a talent tree.

I think the incresed force regen might be better for you.

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Kitru
01.03.2012 , 05:00 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by Keeroe View Post
I think the incresed force regen might be better for you.
The additional Force Regen only works for the first 6 seconds of a fight. Without Masked Assault, this means that Shadow's Respite only provides 24 Force for the entire duration of a fight, which, with One With The Force, amounts to only 2.3 seconds of additional Force for the entirety of the fight. Since *short* fights last about 30 seconds, an additional 2.3 seconds worth of Force is largely worthless within the confines of an optimized build.
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Fende
01.03.2012 , 05:14 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
The additional Force Regen only works for the first 6 seconds of a fight. Without Masked Assault, this means that Shadow's Respite only provides 24 Force for the entire duration of a fight, which, with One With The Force, amounts to only 2.3 seconds of additional Force for the entirety of the fight. Since *short* fights last about 30 seconds, an additional 2.3 seconds worth of Force is largely worthless within the confines of an optimized build.
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Kitru
01.03.2012 , 05:21 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Fende View Post
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VanorDM
01.03.2012 , 05:27 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
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allexj's Avatar


allexj
01.03.2012 , 06:13 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
What exactly are you trying to do? I'm going to assume you're building a tank since you put so many points into Kinetic Combat. Is it a PvE Tank? PvP Tank?

Assuming you're going for a PvE tank, I wouldn't say it's all that viable. Going up from the bottom...

Expertise is absolutely worthless. Combat Technique at level 50 provides roughly 30-40 DPS. Increasing that damage by 9% (Expertise only increases the damage dealt explicitly by Combat Technique, Force Technique, and Shadow Technique) is going to have no appreciable effect on either your threat, damage, or survivability when you consider that Project is going to be doing ~1000 damage a shot.

Elusiveness is an amazing talent as I see it. The benefit for reduced CD Force Speed is marginal at best, but the reduction in Resilience's CD is *amazing*. Since Resilience provide *full immunity* to Force and Tech powers for its 5 sec (talented) duration, getting that up more often means you can laugh your way through Project Storms, Force Storms, and all of the other obscene Force/Tech nastiness that gets thrown your way.

Mind Over Matter is amazing for much the same reason as Elusiveness: removing movement impairing effects with Force Speed is nice (especially for PvP), but the big money-maker is in the extended duration of Resilience. 3 seconds to 5 seconds means you're getting 66% more benefit out of Resilience over the long run, and it gives you *way* more leeway in when to use it to avoid spectacularly huge boss casts.

Shadowsight should always get the full 2/2 treatment. 1% defense is 1% less damage taken, especially since the "defense" provided by Shadowsight is actually 1% *resist chance* as well (meaning it applies to Force/Tech powers, not just melee/ranged). Since Force/Tech powers have this nasty habit of completely ripping through any tank's defenses, the chance to ignore these attacks is always nice.

Pinning Resolve is, honestly, not that useful for a tank. First off, Force Lift for Shadows is essentially a joke (8 sec incapacitate on a 1 min CD) and getting a second, generally unimportant target with a cast isn't that useful. It's also a 2 second cast, which isn't going to be useful when you're the primary target for a group. The 5 sec reduction in Force Stun's CD is also pretty minor. 60 secs to 55 secs isn't really what I would call an appreciable benefit, especially when it doesn't work on a vast majority of the big hard targets (re: the stuff you need a tank for).

If you're taking Force in Balance, you most definitely need to invest both points into Mental Potency. Without it, Force in Balance will demolish your Force pool.

Mind Ward is not particularly useful. There aren't really sufficient DoTs in the game compared to the direct damage caused to justify putting points into it as a tank. Also, keep in mind that Resilience (/angelicchorus) purges you of all debuffs, including DoTs, so, if you are getting destroyed by DoTs, Resilience will take care of them.

If you want to go with a Kinetic/Balance hybrid, use this spec. You get all of the important Kinetic talents (Bombardment is amazing, as are Stasis and Force Pull) as well as the important Balance ones (FiB and Force Strike, largely). It's not going to be the best tank (the self healing provided by FiB is vastly less than the 5% less damage you and your group will take with the Slow Time debuff; similarly, FiB may deal more damage, but it hits fewer targets than Slow Time, so you'll have a harder time with AoE threat than Shadow tanks already do), but it will largely suffice.

If you want the "pure" Shadow tank (best survivability, best threat), this is the spec.
im really going for pvp/pve tank with a bit of elevated damage that what i really want
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Kitru
01.03.2012 , 06:28 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by allexj View Post
im really going for pvp/pve tank with a bit of elevated damage that what i really want
Well, either of the specs I gave you are going to be viable for that. In PvP, the 31/0/10 spec is going to manage better survivability and group assistance while the 25/0/16 spec is going to be better at node defense. Neither spec is really going to have what would be described as "elevated damage". You'll still drag behind DPS noticeably. Force Strike and FiB are going to help with that somewhat (Force Strike mainly), though the main additional utility is going to be in the extended range.

The main problem with trying for a "tank spec with elevated damage" is that you pay for the elevated damage in lower survivability (losing Harnessed Shadows and Slow Time is a big loss, as I said before). In PvE, the biggest concern for a tank is in survivability. Sacrificing survivability for range and damage makes some sense in PvP, but it isn't something that will be useful in PvE.

If I were you, I would decide to either stick through PvP with the 31/0/10 so you can tank effectively in PvE or decide just go with PvP so you can use the 25/0/16 with abandon.
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Fende
01.03.2012 , 06:39 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Can I quote you on that?
Yes. Yes you can.