Hey I play a DF/Saboteur 2/16/23 (Lethality/Engineering) slinger and pulled some amazing dps before 2.0. What have you tested out so far that gets most dps? I got the expansion too late and don't have early access.

Imho single target on the dummy:

 

0. Engineer

1. Hybrid 5/18/33

2. MM or Lethality

 

Single target sustained in raids

1. Hybrid 5/18/33

 

Lots of adds spawns and target switches

1. MM

 

Bosses with big hit box

1. Engineer.

 

Bosses with lots of clumped up adds

1. Engineer

 

Pick your poison. They all work just fine.

Edited April 10, 2013 by paowee

Engineer isn't near that strong ST unless your fighting a boss with a huge hit box. Without the gimmick of the roll though and bomb drop it dmg drops fast. I haven't tried the hybrid spec but since their trying to kill all of them, don't know that I would trust it. As for Lethality and MM. I think MM has better steady dmg, with Lethality having more burst with cull crits. But with the new energy regen all are easily playable and pretty much comes down to playstyle. Although like I said be careful of the Hybrid as the may not be done trying to kill it. Also might want to watch out on the bomb drop ability. Not sure if its working the way they want it as its another of the 1 moves that make or break a spec. It may have changes comeing.

That's why he put it as zero, because it was great on dummy but it's not the best under certain circumstances

Hey I play a DF/Saboteur 2/16/23 (Lethality/Engineering) slinger and pulled some amazing dps before 2.0. What have you tested out so far that gets most dps? I got the expansion too late and don't have early access.

 

Like B'oarder said, the engineering build will put up the most damage in fights that have large hit boxes. Those will probably be

 

1. Titan 6

2. Thrasher

3. Writhing Horror

4. Operator IX

 

 

I, for one, find that play style kind of stupid and gimmicky, but there isn't a doubt it will be the most effective on those fights. So, go learn that rotation and go engineering on those fights for optimal dps.

 

Now, the Leth/Eng hybrid is best on the majority of everything else.

 

1. Operations Chief

2. Olok the Shadow

3. Cartel Warlords

4. Dread Guards

5. Kephess TFB

 

Finally, Marksman is going to be the best on these:

 

1. Dash'Roode

2. Styrak

3. Terror from Beyond

 

If you are like me, and won't be playing engineering at all, because you don't really like the play style, the hybrid will be better on:

 

1. Titan 6

2. Writhing Horror

3. Operator IX

4 Kephess TFB

 

Marksman will probably be better on.

 

1. Thrasher (If you are on add duty which is likely)

 

TL;DR: The hybrid will still put out great damage. You should be fine on every fight. The one fight where you might have minor problems is Styrak.

Edited April 11, 2013 by bbare

My mistake then I misread that part.

That's why he put it as zero, because it was great on dummy but it's not the best under certain circumstances

 

Good catch CJ:). I think people are not used to the fact that Sniper DPS is now not only limited to the traditional methods of DPSing. Instead of the usual:

 

1) Click boss -> Hit rotation / follow priority list -> (insert math forumulas here) = DPS.

 

With Scatter Bombs and Covered Escape your DPS is tied to how well you are able to position yourself. Something unique to us and is, an ADDITIONAL factor to consider. Due to the extra work and pre-requisites it may or may not appeal to some people and is plastered with the term "gimmicky"

 

2) Click boss -> (large hit box?) -> Positioning good? -> If Yes, Engineering, If No, Hybrid / MM -> Hit rotation / follow priority list -> (insert math forumas here) = DPS

 

What i find curious is if this was intended by the designers. Did they play around and decided to reinvent the wheel.... I don't know of any class or spec in WoW (where this game was supposedly cloned from), where the size of a boss is a determining factor for DPS. I know (in that game) thare are AoE fights (that makes one spec better than the other) but that's it. We do not have cleave-heavy fights like Mt. Hyjal. Most fights in SWTOR involve simple target swaps and single target sustained DPS and we pick our specs depending on what role we feel comfortable doing (aside from perrsonal preference ofcourse). MM great for target resets, Hybrid/Lethality great for patchwork fights. Personally, at least now i have more options and that will be, Engi great for huge size bosses. More choices = good thing

 

Like B'oarder said, the engineering build will put up the most damage in fights that have large hit boxes. Those will probably be

 

1. Titan 6

2. Thrasher

3. Writhing Horror

4. Operator IX

5. Kephess TFB

 

Engi is not the best for Kephess TFBl; Hybrid or MM will be more competitive for this boss. As you can see from the video at most only 2 bombs hit the target. That severely gimps Scatter Bombs. In order for those bombs to be efficient you have to have them hit at least 3, ideally 4 times (with 5 being the best if you have perfect positioning).

Edited April 11, 2013 by paowee

Engineer isn't near that strong ST unless your fighting a boss with a huge hit box.

I understand that. That is also why if you check the post, and i quote

 

What have you tested out so far that gets most dps?

The question was a bit vague so I answered:

Imho single target on the dummy:

 

0. Engineer

1. Hybrid 5/18/33

2. MM or Lethality

A more complete answer would be, and pardon me if i failed to reiterate this..

 

0. Engineer = 1st on the dummy (sitting near a wall); good on bosses with big hit boxes + on fights with clumped up adds and on movement heavy fights.

1. Hybrid = 2nd on the dummy, great on encounters where you get to DPS and"tunnel vision"a single target (meaning tank and spank, single target sustained, little to no target switching)

2. MM = on fights with a lot of target resets, greatly improved in 2.0 for movement heavy fights due to reduced cast time on abilities, best for on demand burst DPS.

2.a Lethality = same as Hybrid, good for heavy movement fights (can't comment more because i did not play with it much)

That's why he put it as zero, because it was great on dummy but it's not the best under certain circumstances

Certain circumstances being:

 

1. Small bosses

2. Instances where you can only get one or two bombs to hit (your mileage may vary)

Edited April 11, 2013 by paowee

Here is a parse:

 

To give people an idea of how much Engineering will do WITHOUT Scatter Bombs, if you tried to roll and not a single bomb hit, or if you roll and the most you can do is only 1 or 2 bombs to hit, or if you decided to roll Engineering on a boss with a small hit box,

 

You will be doing rougly 2300 to 2400 DPS.

Around 100-250 less than MM and Hybrid which are both sitting comfortably at the 2500-2700 Mark.

 

With Scatter Bombs, if you roll and can get 4-5 bombs to hit, if you use Engineering on a boss fight that is "made" for it, meaning big size bosses, then your potential DPS can be http://www.torparse.com/a/151560/time/1362265581/1362265881/0/Overview

 

• 2951 DPS ideally
  
• Note that Scatter Bombs did 600 DPS in that parse, so without it you will be at 2351 DPS
  

 

WITH BOMBS HITTING 5 minutes 2951 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/151560/time/1362265581/1362265881/0/Overview

WITH NO BOMBS HITTING 10 minutes 2457 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/160143/time/1362933693/1362934304/0/Overview

 

===============================

 

Is Engineering in end-game PVE "gimmicky"? My answer to that is a question: is tunnel visioning, single target, on a boss, 100% of the time in a 13 min fight, as Hybrid makes it more pro, and less gimmicky? Isn't that severley gimping and simplifying your role in the raid, which leads to raid composition that is going to be catered and tailor made for you because that is the only role you can fill? Which is limited to "single target -tunnel visioning-100% on the boss" role as a Sniper DPS?

 

We can might as well say all the specs are stupid and gimmicky for the fights where they are exceptional at. Hybrid is gimmicky for patchwork fights, MM is gimmicky for target swapping fights, and Engineering is gimmicky for super-sized boss fights.

 

The 3 specs have their own specializations. CAPITALIZING on their strengths and using one that is best for each boss is min-maxing your role in the raid. Min-maxing is not a gimmick - it is a playstyle.

Edited April 11, 2013 by paowee

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that Hybrid is bad at target switching. It may not be the maximum a sniper can do, but it is far from being bad. You simply don't rely on your full set of DOTs.

 

If I am facing a new target with low health I usually just do CG->Cull->TD or CG->Cull->SoS->TD, it all depends on how many other people are attacking the same target. But generally I just start with a CG toss and then quickly decide what else I will have time to do. When I see a new target that I know will survive a while I just use my normal rotation on it with the full set of DOTs. Starting with CG is useful because it is so low cost and has no CD and has an excellent chance of hitting more than one target.

 

Every enemy is different and you have to make a lot of adjustments on the fly, but the Hybrid has a lot of options that you can mix in based on your needs -- we have a full toolbox at our disposal.

I'm not sure I agree with the idea that Hybrid is bad at target switching. It may not be the maximum a sniper can do, but it is far from being bad. You simply don't rely on your full set of DOTs.

 

Hmm it wasn't mentioned in the recent conversations that Hybrid was bad at all in target switching though. Just that MM excels at it but it does not imply Hybrid is automatically bad.

anyone had any testing in pts or now in live what stat balance should we be aiming?

What is the tree for the hybrid. Sorry if you mentioned it already.

What is the tree for the hybrid. Sorry if you mentioned it already.

 

http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sniper/13/?build=023000000000000000000000000000000023320022101002000000000000000002300221012220210120000000000000&ver=20

Imho single target on the dummy:

 

0. Engineer

1. Hybrid 5/18/33

2. MM or Lethality

 

Single target sustained in raids

1. Hybrid 5/18/33

 

How can you get 5/18/33 if you only have 46 points? Unless you mean 23 points in the dirty fighting tree.

Yes you are right.

 

x/x/23