Hello everybody, please allow me to share my view on the upcoming changes to Trooper DPS specs. Feel free to pitch in with your opinions or offer advice if I misintrepeted something from the datamined notes.

 

The way I see the changes:

 

General:

 

Electro Net: Fires an electro net that ensnares the target, reducing its movement speed by 50% and dealing <<x>> energy damage over 9 seconds. The damage dealt by the electro net increases by 20% for every second that the target remains moving. This effect stacks up to 10 times on enemy players or up to 5 times on any other target. Additionally, the electro net hinders the target, preventing the use of high mobility actions and escapes such as charges, vanishes, and speed boosts. Lasts 9 sec.

 

Big survivability buff, good utility buff, minor damage buff: This is obviously a PvP ability but a badly needed one at that. Finally some protection against lolsmashers. Since PvE bosses don't always move, it's a minor dot that I might use depending on the ammo cost.

 

Into the Fray: Increases the duration of Reactive Shield by <<x>> seconds. In addition, suffering direct damage from area attacks generates <<y>> energy cells and heals you for <<z>>% of your total health. This effect cannot occur more than once every 3 seconds.

 

Survivability buff. Comes in handy in PvP but next to useless in PvE. "Suffering direct damage from area attacks" in Operations is a death sentence. I guess the extra time on reactive shield helps in PvE somewhat but there I have dedicated healers watching over my hp.

 

Mortar Salvo: Explosive Round can now be fired as a salvo, rapidly shooting up to 3 weaker rounds before depleting energy cells and going on cooldown for 6 seconds.

 

I don't even know what to say about this. Depleting energy cells? Are you kidding or trolling me? Wasting my entire ammo reservoir on 3 Explosive Rounds? Seriously, what are you smoking over there?

 

Shoulder Cannon: Deploys a shoulder cannon that gradually loads 4 missiles over time. Once loaded, the shoulder cannon can be triggered again to fire against an enemy target within 10 meters, launching 1 missile that deals <<x>> kinetic damage. A missile can be launched up to once per second. Loading and launching the shoulder cannon does not respect the global cooldown and can be done while controlled.

 

Wow, this sounds awesome! Free, off the GCD missile launcher! Epic, now I can shoot poeple with anti-vehicle weapons? But wait a sec....what was it.....10m range only? Aha...okay.....huge damage buff for Vanguards. Got it. Nice skill, too bad I can't use it.

 

Conclusion: Overall buffs to Commando DPS? 9 second dot from Electro Net! But hey, it's a buff.

 

Assault Specialist:

 

Assault Frame: Reduces the damage taken by all periodic effects by <<x>>%.

 

Nice survivability buff.

 

Hyper Assault Cell: Reduces the cost of Explosive Surge by <<x>> and gives Explosive Surge a <<y>>% chance to trigger your Plasma Cell on all affected targets.

 

Resource/Damage buff. This affects Pryro/Assault Powertechs and Vanguards as well. They are already one of the hardest hitting AC in the game along with Maras/Sents. But hey, lets give them more damage.

 

Hyper Barrels: Reduces the cost of Charged Bolts by <<x>> and the cooldown of Full Auto by <<y>> seconds. Additionally increases the damage dealt by High Impact Bolt, Charged Bolts and Full Auto by <<z>>%.

 

Resource/Damage buff. Because PT Railshots don't hit hard enough already.

 

Riot Augs: Increases the damage dealt by Stockstrike, Incendiary Round, and Assault Plastique by <<x>>%.

 

Damage buff. This tree was clearly lacking damage before.

 

Conclusion: 3 outright damage buffs to Pyro/Assault. Perhaps now Assault Commandos will be slightly more competitive in PvP. I'd like that. But at the same time, these changes apply to Vanguards and Powertechs as well and they are already one of the hardest hitting AC in the game. Rail shots hitting you for 6k every 6 seconds? Let's buff it some more. I'm concerned that these changes (along with the fact that only Vanguards can use shoulder cannon because of the 10m range) will make them insanely overpowered compared to Commandos.

 

Commando - Gunnery:

 

Decoy: Diversion has a <<x>>% chance to intercept and absorb the next incoming direct Force or tech attack. Lasts <<y>> seconds.

 

Survivability buff. If my memory serves correctly the cooldown on Diversion is 45 seconds. Can come in handy in PvP but I wouldn't dare to use this in PvE. Diversion needs to be used when you're about to rip aggro off the tank.

 

Overclock: Reduces the cooldown of Concussive Round by <<x>> seconds and Tech Override by <<y>> seconds. In addition, Tech Override has a <<z>>% chance to yield a second charge, making your next two abilities with an activation time activate instantly.

 

This is probably the best change to Gunnery Commandos. Lower cooldown on the CC helps in PvP. 2 Tech Overrides helps in PvE. It's a utility buff and an indirect damage buff.

 

Reflexive Shield: When you take damage, you have <<x>>% chance to reduce the active cooldown of Reactive Shield by <<y>> seconds. This effect cannot occur more than once every 1.5 seconds. In addition, when taking damage, you have a <<y>>% chance to emit an Energy Redoubt, which absorbs a low amount of damage and lasts <<a>> seconds. This effect cannot occur more than once every 10 seconds.

 

You're going overboard with survivability buffs now. It helps in PvP, I know, addresses the concerns with low Commando survivability. But in PvE survivability is the concern of the healers mostly.

 

Conclusion: 2 survivability buffs and one indirect damage buff. What can I say? Extremely lackluster compared to the buffs Assault spec is getting.

 

Vanguard - Tactics:

 

Advance the Line: Increases the duration of Hold the Line by <<x>> seconds.

 

Nice utility/survivablity buff.

 

Charged Loaders: Increases ranged critical chance by <<x>>%. Additionally increases the damage dealt by Shoulder Cannon by <<y>>%, and immediately loads <<z>> additional missiles.

 

Big, big damage buff. More off the GCD missiles.

 

Triumph: Increases the damage you deal to bleeding targets by <<x>>%.

 

Another damage buff.

 

Conclusion: Some good damage buffs. While arbitrarily I would say that buffs Assault is getting is bigger, nevertheless Tactics is getting much bigger damage buffs than Gunnery.

 

Overall conclusion:

 

- If you're a PvE Commando (Gunnery): You can expect minimal damage increase (9 second dot from electro net, which doesn't even stack since most bosses are stationary; another instant skill when you use Tech Override.) At the same time, your Demolition Round is getting a 5% nerf, your Grav Rounds are getting a slight nerf (wider min/max damage range and your Reserve Powercell is getting nerfed. Lots of survivability buffs. Verdict: nerf or no difference at best

 

- If you're a PvE Vanguard (Tactics): You can expect some pretty serious buffs. Shoulder cannon gives you off-GCD missiles which you can spec into for more damage. Electro Net dot buff and more damage overall to bleeding targets. Survivablity buffs. Verdict: buff.

 

-If you're a PvP Commando (Assault): You can expect some pretty nice damage and survivability buffs. This coupled with the Electro Net can actually make you a successful contender on the battlefield. Verdict: buff.

 

-If you're a PvP Vanguard (or using Assault in PvE): You're getting an incredible amount of buffs in terms of damage, utlity and survivability. Electro Net to your already formidable array of utlity tools. Shoulder Cannon and various Assault buffs to bolster your already insane damage output. You are the king of the Trooper class. Verdict: buff.

 

So...can anyone answer why Bioware hates Commandos and Gunnery Commandos in particular so much?

Edited February 9, 2013 by CommanderKeeva

So...can anyone answer why Bioware hates Commandos and Gunnery Commandos in particular so much?

 

Good assessment. As for why BW hates gunnery commandos so much, it's because we're super overpowered dps gods, and .... oh wait, we're not.... I seriously have no idea then. But given what has happened in past patches, I'm not at all surprised that they decided to buff every other class but commandos (i.e. a relative nerf). The survivability increases are nice in PvP, but as the OP said, we have heals for that in PvE and if you're getting hit by the boss, it's likely that something has gone wrong and your minimally increased survivability won't save you.

So...can anyone answer why Bioware hates Commandos and Gunnery Commandos in particular so much?

 

I think the answer to that is Austin Peckenpaugh. He just hates us.

 

From the looks of it, an overall nerf to PVE gunnery DPS, with none of the new skills adding anything there.

 

While every other AC gets a change that helps out their PVE dps in someway (as well as PVP boosts).

 

Thanks Austin!!!!

I had assumed the mortar salvor thing meant that it didn't cost ammo until it had completed (as opposed to costing it up front), not that it used up every cell. The other way around would be so horrendous it'd be funny.

 

That said - and yes, this is just data mined information and as such not especially reliable - but as it stands? My vanguard is looking more tempting by the minute.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Bleeters

I had assumed the mortar salvor thing meant that it didn't cost ammo until it had completed (as opposed to costing it up front), not that it used up every cell. The other way around would be so horrendous it'd be funny.

 

Knowing BW, I wouldn't be surprised...

For the Tech Override, I have to question how that is going to effect our ammo regeneration. Two instant abilities is great, unless it causes you to dip down deeply into sub-optimal regeneration rates.

 

This is especially worrisome with the Reserve Powercell nerf.

For the Tech Override, I have to question how that is going to effect our ammo regeneration. Two instant abilities is great, unless it causes you to dip down deeply into sub-optimal regeneration rates.

 

This is especially worrisome with the Reserve Powercell nerf.

Eh, there aren't that many abilities you can really combine with tech override as gunnery anyway. Full auto doesn't work, demolition round and high impact bolt are instant, which just leaves grav round, a medical probe and possibly this mortar salvo thing, depending on how it works.

 

If you use it for grav round at least, you won't be using up any more ammo than just casting them normally. Global cooldown, and all.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Bleeters

Eh, there aren't that many abilities you can really combine with tech override as gunnery anyway.

 

Plasma Grenade. But I only use that with reserve powercell.

 

Oh the irony.

Eh, there aren't that many abilities you can really combine with tech override as gunnery anyway. Full auto doesn't work, demolition round and high impact bolt are instant, which just leaves grav round, a medical probe and possibly this mortar salvo thing, depending on how it works.

 

If you use it for grav round at least, you won't be using up any more ammo than just casting them normally. Global cooldown, and all.

 

In PvP I can see how it would be helpful, but PvE? Not so much. Maybe a couple healing probes, if you're really in a tight spot, or a Plasma Grenade and something else to kick off your DPS, but all in all, I'd have to say that it isn't much of a buff for PvE and sorta a "meh" for PvP.

Plasma Grenade. But I only use that with reserve powercell.

Oh yeah, that. Still, the same applies: you're not losing any more ammo combining that with tech override than if you just cast it normally.

 

The PvE application is fairly simply, it lets you cast two grav-rounds-of-whatever whilst moving rather than one. Which is alright, given how often we have to move around for ops bosses. It's a buff, even if it's not exactly making my nether regions tingle with excitment.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Bleeters

Oh yeah, that. Still, the same applies: you're not losing any more ammo combining that with tech override than if you just cast it normally.

 

If you use it with GR you'll lose a bit since it normally only use up ammo "after" the 1.5 sec cast as opposed to before, which will be the case with TO, not sure how much of a difference though. But regardless, it's not gonna improve DPS.

i think it's too early to comment on all of this. the mortar salvo thing could end up costing 3 ammo total, but only uses up the ammo at the end, becomes an uninterruptable channel, all sorts of things.

 

overclock may end up being the replacement to reserve round, meaning we get two tech overrides at the cost of ammo management from more reserve powercells, and not an actual shorter cooldown on CR (as its reduction from reserve round may simply cross over to the new skill), and tech override is not a skill for PVE, it is a skill for PVP

 

also explosive surge is a vanguard skill, so hyper assault cell doesn't 'also affect vanguards/PTs' it would only affect them.

 

and i seriously doubt that hyper barrels is a vg/pt skill considering it specifically mentions charged bolts.

 

 

 

all of that said, until we know these are the actual changes, and until we know exactly (or mostly) how they actually work from testing rather than reading some datamined source codes, and seeing the changes across the board so we can look at things holistically, i think it's a bit too early to start weighing in.

Edited February 11, 2013 by oaceen

Hyper Barrel sounds like a pure Commando talent, because Vanguards don't have Charged Bolts, neither do they use Full Auto. So that buff looks solely for the Commando and Vanguard HiB will not be doing even more damage, as you claim.

 

Also, Shoulder Cannon can be used on people who have charged you (marauders, juggernauts), so it's not a pure Vanguard skill.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Zakmonster

Nobody said Shoulder Cannon wouldn't have its occasional use. But with a range of 10m it becomes completely useless on Flashpoint and Operations bosses. It doesn't seem the least fair to me anyway that they get to use this skill whenever they want whereas ours is restricted to PvP and only certain bosses (like Operator IX, Heavy Fabricator; Stormcaller and Firebrand).

 

The last thing Vanguards need is more direct, front-up damage. I'm not saying they shouldn't get damage buffs, but if Vanguards do get more damage, Commandos should get equal or more to compensate. The changes for Commando seem to primarily affect PvP. The changes to Vanguards seem to benefit them in both aspects equally.

Edited February 9, 2013 by CommanderKeeva

Well these changes look depressing...

 

More excessive buffs for lolrauders

Nobody said Shoulder Cannon wouldn't have its occasional use. But with a range of 10m it becomes completely useless on Flashpoint and Operations bosses. It doesn't seem the least fair to me anyway that they get to use this skill whenever they want whereas ours is restricted to PvP and only certain bosses (like Operator IX, Heavy Fabricator; Stormcaller and Firebrand).

 

The last thing Vanguards need is more direct, front-up damage. I'm not saying they shouldn't get damage buffs, but if Vanguards do get more damage, Commandos should get equal or more to compensate. The changes for Commando seem to primarily affect PvP. The changes to Vanguards seem to benefit them in both aspects equally.

 

And even the buffs for PVP aren't gonna make us all that good there considering the buffs coming to other classes.

And even the buffs for PVP aren't gonna make us all that good there considering the buffs coming to other classes.

 

Very true.

 

If the changes go live as is, my merc and commando will never be used in pvp again. I'll switch to my gunslinger and PT (well my PT is going to be my main PVP toon anyway, once I finish getting it to 50).

 

Right now I'm more worried about any negative PVE changes that happen as a result of PVP balance changes.

Because I don't want to stop using my merc and commando and my main PVE toons.

I'd like to point out that I only PvP and have never experienced any of the endgame PvE content. As such, I do not know what the class balance is in that regard. In fact, I was under the assumption that Commandos were very competitive in PvE DPS and needed few buffs in that area.

 

I know that Commandos needed help in PvP, however, and they've received some solid buffs in that regard. Whether those buffs can match up to the buffs that other classes got is still up in the air - we won't know until we play.

 

I'd also like to point out that I don't know what the buffs to the other classes are, because I can't find a comprehensive list of them (and I don't really care what they are).

Edited February 10, 2013 by Zakmonster

I'd like to point out that I only PvP and have never experienced any of the endgame PvE content. As such, I do not know what the class balance is in that regard. In fact, I was under the assumption that Commandos were very competitive in PvE DPS and needed few buffs in that area.

 

I know that Commandos needed help in PvP, however, and they've received some solid buffs in that regard. Whether those buffs can match up to the buffs that other classes got is still up in the air - we won't know until we play.

 

I'd also like to point out that I don't know what the buffs to the other classes are, because I can't find a comprehensive list of them (and I don't really care what they are).

 

Commandos are generally better at PvE than PvP (Gunnery anyway) because in PvE your rotation doesn't get interrupted. But that doesn't mean they're the best DPS in that regard, actually far from it.

 

No class can match the damage potential of Sentinels/Marauders and Vanguards/Powertechs. They do so much damage in both PvE and PvP that I'm beginning to think that Bioware's claims about a 5% overall grace window are false. Generally they are followed by Guardians/Juggernauts, place melee classes firmly in the top 3 damage spots.

 

At equal skill and gear, Gunslingers (especially hybrids) will out-dps Commandos. Against a Sharpshooters, it might be close to a tie. Commandos will generally out dps Sages/Sorcerers and Shadows/Sins (of both specs) by a small-to-medium margin and Scoundrels/Operatives by a large margin.

 

As you can see, while Commandos certainly have more opportunities to shine in PvE than in PvP, the majority of the ACs still outshine them. They out dps bursty classes (like Sins and Ops) and can tie with Gunslingers on a good day. But they still can't hold a candle to Sentinels, Juggernauts and especially their mirror class, Vanguards. Which is funny, to say the last, given that Commandos have the largest gun in the game, yet Powertechs do so much more damage with their one puny pistol.

 

Virtually every damage spec, besides Gunnery is getting direct damage buffs. I'm not kidding, look it up, it's on Darth Hater, every single damage spec in existence is getting more direct damage whereas Gunnery is getting a second instant attack, which is a minor indirect damage buff that's more useful in PvP anyway. I don't really see how we're supposed to stay in 5% of each other. Vanguards and Sentinels are already ahead of us by a very largin margin and it will only increase if they get more damage buffs.

 

Hence....Bioware hates Gunnery.

Mortar Salvo: Explosive Round can now be fired as a salvo, rapidly shooting up to 3 weaker rounds before depleting energy cells and going on cooldown for 6 seconds.

 

This ability seems to be good when you are very low on ammo or full heat.

Edited February 10, 2013 by Chrisarn

Elctro Net and into the fray will not last, they will get nerfed heavily after release. Its ok for other classes to put dots on us or stun lock us, but its never acceptable for a trooper to be able to do the same. I like those abilities but the fact is people will go freaking bazerk over Elctro Net. Some dps trys to kill a commando and into the fray gets in the way, they will be on the forums ************ up a storm. The problem I see here is people have gotten used to stunlocking troopers and casting them aside. I think Electro Net and into the Fray would give them a taste of their own medicine, and they will not like that. Hell look at what happened to blitz, cry grenade, and stock strike. We used to be able to knock people back with a good punch. Well that did not last long. Now people just seem to be able to run out of cryo grenade most of the time.

 

As for the rest they may let us keep those abilities without massive nerfing.

 

As for assault being useless I am not convinced of that. I have been using gunnery for the longest time, but ever sense people started grav round spamming until it was nerfed, its sort of turned into the joke of swtor. Every time I use grav round I hear spam grav round or some other stupid statement about it. So I went to assault picked up some points in gunnery for charged bolts. Seems to work better in pvp, I got allot more mobility, and I am no longer a sitting target. As long as I get that dot on them, their health drops fast. I also went to assault on my level 44 vanguard, with some tanking spec, seems to do the trick in non 50 pvp bracket. It also comes down to numbers for me. I hate numbers but sometimes it does. In gunnery I have to sit there and stack grav round 3 times for max damage. In assault one shot my dot is up, the rest is charged bolts, or full auto. If they get too close high impact bolt.

 

Just my thoughts.

I just want to point out that something listed under the basic class on Darth Hater doesn't mean it is for both classes. Dual saber throw is listed under JK, but it requires 2 sabers to use so it's clearly a sentinel only ability. I'm 90% sure the net is only for commandos and not for VGs, which means commandos will provide a unique ability to bring to RWZs.

I just want to point out that something listed under the basic class on Darth Hater doesn't mean it is for both classes. Dual saber throw is listed under JK, but it requires 2 sabers to use so it's clearly a sentinel only ability. I'm 90% sure the net is only for commandos and not for VGs, which means commandos will provide a unique ability to bring to RWZs.

 

Okay, that would make sense actually. Though, I'd still trade it for Shoulder Cannon as I have no interest in PvP anymore as a Commando.

Okay, that would make sense actually. Though, I'd still trade it for Shoulder Cannon as I have no interest in PvP anymore as a Commando.

 

Well maybe we'll get shoulder cannon too, and not just VGs. But I doubt it since it says 10m.

Well maybe we'll get shoulder cannon too, and not just VGs. But I doubt it since it says 10m.

 

Maybe, the possibility exists that we will get it and it will be 30m range for us since commando AC makes explosive round 30m, so there is precident for it. I'm not going to hold my breath tho.