I've never heard "heteronormative" used in that context before. "Patriarchal," yes.

Weird, I hear (read) it all the time. Yes, it is also sometimes in reference to the Patriarchy, which benefits from the enforcement of gender roles like that.

Perhaps you're more scholastic than me.

Weird, I hear (read) it all the time. Yes, it is also sometimes in reference to the Patriarchy, which benefits from the enforcement of gender roles like that.

 

Perhaps you're more scholastic than me.

I doubt that I am, sadly. I've only ever read "heteronormative" used in the context of the specific idea of the superiority/prevalence of heterosexual relationships, which may or may not have anything to do with the participants upholding patriarchal gender roles.

I doubt that I am, sadly. I've only ever read "heteronormative" used in the context of the specific idea of the superiority/prevalence of heterosexual relationships, which may or may not have anything to do with the participants upholding patriarchal gender roles.

It's probably been adopted and expanded, but of course has the undercurrent of heterosexism to it that comes from the original meaning and use, but still it would arguably be applicable not only to relationships with non-binary individuals, but also homosexual relationships, as those gender roles are still being ignored or deliberately refuted. Still then, the cry of "HOW WRITE HETERONORMATIVE GENDER ROLES?!" is applicable to Austin in that they can't write homosexual relationships because the gender roles they're using otherwise aren't necessarily applicable.

It should be noted that Lord Cytharat was written by Alexander Freed before he life Austin to work freelance, and he was the writer responsible for the Imperial Agent story line, which is considered to be the best and, at least to my mind, has some of the most interesting NPCs and companions. Including the oft-cited bisexual Kaliyo.

It's probably been adopted and expanded, but of course has the undercurrent of heterosexism to it that comes from the original meaning and use, but still it would arguably be applicable not only to relationships with non-binary individuals, but also homosexual relationships, as those gender roles are still being ignored or deliberately refuted. Still then, the cry of "HOW WRITE HETERONORMATIVE GENDER ROLES?!" is applicable to Austin in that they can't write homosexual relationships because the gender roles they're using otherwise aren't necessarily applicable.

 

It should be noted that Lord Cytharat was written by Alexander Freed before he life Austin to work freelance, and he was the writer responsible for the Imperial Agent story line, which is considered to be the best and, at least to my mind, has some of the most interesting NPCs and companions. Including the oft-cited bisexual Kaliyo.

Quite frankly, Kaliyo isn't reason enough for me to think any better of this Freed person if she's not actually available for the PC to romance; that's almost worse, really.

Quite frankly, Kaliyo isn't reason enough for me to think any better of this Freed person if she's not actually available for the PC to romance; that's almost worse, really.

Given that there was no SGR in any of the storylines that makes it seem like it was a decision somewhere among the higher ups rather than anything that the writers could choose. I think the next best thing to SGR is having non romanceable gay/bi/whatever characters anyway, so it puts him a step ahead of the other storylines at least.

Quite frankly, Kaliyo isn't reason enough for me to think any better of this Freed person if she's not actually available for the PC to romance; that's almost worse, really.

Oh, of course, you don't know!

During beta, people were asking where the SGRA options were. Bioware, at the time, said they had to be cut from the development schedule due to time reasons, to get the game out for EA's release date. During the Guild Summit of May 2012, Daniel Erikson said that they had companions in mind for who they wanted to make as SGRA-available. However, almost everyone from development was made redundant in April/May and, well, now story content's no longer being supported/written.

So... yeah. That's (part) of the origin of this whole mess.

Right, some old info:

Natashina's FAQ Post

and

Chaac's Timeline for SGRA Information and Events

While it might seem that these are outdated, we have so little information and have had so little communication that, while some of this was posted nearly a year ago, it's unfortunately still current. Natashina also lists a lot of contributors - everyone's left. If you think you're coming into this thread with new ideas like "oh, let's just wait and see" or "why don't they just remove the gender mark on the convo's" or "why don't the put them on CM", it's been discussed. Five or six times, it's been discussed. You will be hard pressed to find a position which has not been discussed, at length, in any of the six iterations of this thread that exist.

He gets really weird with any armour that shows skin. He wear the female one of Darth Sion's I think, but with a weird sort of shirt thing under it, and I know he has at least one other but I can't think of what it is. Mira's jacket maybe? He wears the basic version of any duster that is supposed to show his chest and I think he also has an entirely unique version of the minimalist gladiator chestguard that covers up any exposed skin. I really don't know what's going on with his model at all.

Yeah, and the Relaxed Jumpsuit looks all glitched on him.

Even more so, in all ship (and many off-ship) cutscenes if you put him in the covert energy torso or even no chest item at all he inexplicably has his default starter gear chest piece on.

Anyone played through Oricon yet? There's an interesting line Pub-side.

It's a small thing but I like it a lot. The ability to make our avatars queer is, of course, hugely important, impossible to overstate in its impact, but when your PC and her love interest are the only gays in the galaxy it still feels alienating and weird. It's like playing as a black Cousland in Dragon Age; sure, the game will let you do it, but your parents are white, every NPC you meet in the entire game is white, and it gets to the point where you might as well have installed a mod that lets you play as a Moogle, you couldn't be more obviously totally foreign to the actual lore. Any sense that you and your minority status actually have a place in this fantasy world is destroyed because there's no continuity to it, no evidence beyond your own completely unique PC status. So something like this, as small and offhand as it is, feels so powerful to me. It's queer characters who exist on their own, who have nothing whatsoever to do with you the player, who are just part of the natural texture of the game world.

I mean. Still waiting on the actual PC relationship that it supports, of course. But I do like that they seem to have committed to making better new content, anyway, even if they don't show any evidence of ever planning to fix the old stuff.

Wait, Quething? Am I insane, or do I know you?

Also, it sounds very possible that that, while nice, might have been slipped in beneath the noses of upper management, so I'm not sure if it's a sign of hope. Even so, it's nice to know that some people in Austin are okay.

While describing how the soldiers are growing more and more crazy due to the Dread Masters' influence, your main NPC contact mentions that a fellow soldier "thinks he shot his husband."

Or if you want to look at it more darkly they are saying that the fact that "He" had a "Husband" is part of the madness.

Or if you want to look at it more darkly they are saying that the fact that "He" had a "Husband" is part of the madness.

I think that's overly cynical. That being said, I didn't see it as anything more meaningful than "hey, they mentioned a SGR".

Not sure if you all had looked into datamining at all and talked about this, but supposedly each class gets a new set of companions for the new SSSP ships. Of course, this could all turn out to be completely false fed info (though most of the datamining track recordds have been pretty good), but if it is true, there is some hope for new romance options coming.

Pretty sure they're tagged or said to be space PvP/SSSP-specific 'companions' that assist with space combat, aren't they?

Pretty sure they're tagged or said to be space PvP/SSSP-specific 'companions' that assist with space combat, aren't they?

At this point, who knows - I don't doubt that they are completely SSSP specific, however it sounds like the SSSP may have some PVE aspects as well, and it wouldn't surprise me if those companions do have some kinds of story and conversation. They may not, but I think there is a possibility. I did see at least one thing in the datamining that suggested a particular crew member could only be obtained from story missions.

As much as I'd like to be hopeful about SSSP and companions... I can't.

All I can think is that we'll have a droid, a non-humanoid and two female companions, one of which is straight and the other obligatory-bisexual and, because story content is no longer a priority, they'll all have bland characterisation and three conversations over the course of 10k affection.

I wouldn't expect a lot either - not like there is all that much involved in the original companions, but something is better than nothing.

I just...

It's unlikely that they will add these companions with SGRA to them because, well, look at the companions they put on the CM. HK and Treek. They're not doing near-human/human companions any more, it seems.

Well, out of the 5 per faction being added (allegedly), I'm guessing at least one on each side will be human or near human. Damion Schubert is the one that said that he wanted to punch his screen after hearing too much alien speech.

10 new companions?

What is this?

An expansion?

D:<

Off topic of what we're currently talking about, but:

The most toxic formulas in our cultures are not pass down in political practice, they’re pass[sic] down in mundane narratives. It’s our fiction where the toxic virus of sexism, racism, homophobia, where it passes from one generation to the next, and the average artist will kill you before they remove those poisons.

~ Junot Diaz speaking at Word Up Bookshop, 2012

Because anyone who says "It's just..." either is utterly unaware how culturally effective and reflective art and media are, or is aware of the power of the two, but refuses to allow equal access and representation on the basis of their own bigotry.

I just...

 

It's unlikely that they will add these companions with SGRA to them because, well, look at the companions they put on the CM. HK and Treek. They're not doing near-human/human companions any more, it seems.

I don't think HK and Treek are an indication of what type of companions they're doing in the future. HK's a fun callback to the earlier KotOR games and Treek is basically "Hey, wouldn't it be cool to have an ewok?" It's not anything about whether or not to make human companions. Besides, the human ones would be much less work to make as they already have the character creation system in place.

As much as I liked the quick acknowledgement of SGR being a thing in the Oricon dialogue, I'm tired of being thrown bones when we were promised steak.

Let's be optimistic and assume that this is a subtle plan to soften up the opposers before they throw in full-fledged SGRAs.

As if.

Yeah I won't hold my breath.

Mostly because I'd need a lung transplant from some kind of deep sea whale to not asphyxiate whilst I waited.

10 new companions?

 

What is this?

 

An expansion?

 

D:<

I wouldn't be surprised if this was the next DLC. However, it could also be incorrect or false fed info and all this is pointless, I suppose.