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Immerision enhancer: Toggle saber core


Tim-ONeil

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Honestly, a toggle makes everyone happy. 1.5.1 - PLEASE.

 

Exactly. It's not something you can argue against as it's an optional thing. They seem to have gotten the hint that vanity is important to making money in the cartel shop. They've embraced the orange gear revolution. this is just a part of that overall give the player options strategy.

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I have yet to see anything you've posted that would lead me to believe that my idea isn't valid. What you are doing is called a red herring because you are trying to invalidate the idea without actually being able to do so, thereby focusing on a part of it that doesn't actually address the issue. If you want to quote obscure comic books be my guest.

 

Anyone that grew up on the original trilogy knows what a lightsaber is and what it looks like. It is one of the iconic pieces of star wars lore. People know what it is even if they aren't a star wars fan.

 

I must be getting old since I can still remember the USA network Star Wars Christmas day marathon and swinging around wrapping paper tubes as a kid while making the humming sound...

That's not what a red herring is at all...

 

Anyway, yes, let's add an option to make all troopers to look like stormtroopers, all jedis like Obi-wan, all Sith like Darth Vader, smugglers like Han Solo, etc.

 

While we're at it, we shouldn't allow girls to be sith or jedi, or troopers. There were no girls doing this in the movies! Absolutely shameful how far Bioware has deviated from the 30 year old movies in their own game. I'm disappointed, Biofail.

Edited by DarkDisturbed
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That's not what a red herring is at all...

 

Anyway, yes, let's add an option to make all troopers to look like stormtroopers, all jedis like Obi-wan, all Sith like Darth Vader, smugglers like Han Solo, etc.

 

While we're at it, we shouldn't allow girls to be sith or jedi, or troopers. There were no girls doing this in the movies! Absolutely shameful how far Bioware has deviated from the 30 year old movies in their own game. I'm disappointed, Biofail.

 

Red Herring

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Which has absolutely nothing to do with anything he said, and does not pertain to deviating from an argument. It has nothing to do with invalidating an idea without being able to do so.

 

Actually it is. The idea is player choice and the medium for determining star wars 'cannon' is the movies as the base for it.

 

When you try to bring in obscure comic books or CGI shows that have contradicted their own source material and even rebooted themselves multiple times that's exactly what it is- an attempt to redefine the argument.

 

The idea itself being player choice can't be debated as right or wrong in this instance. A sweeping change like taking all the black/multicolored cores out of the game for everyone would be debatable. This isn't the same thing at all. I hope you understand that. If not, thanks for the bump at least.

Edited by Tim-ONeil
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Actually it is. The idea is player choice and the medium for determining star wars 'cannon' is the movies as the base for it.

 

When you try to bring in obscure comic books or CGI shows that have contradicted their own source material and even rebooted themselves multiple times that's exactly what it is- an attempt to redefine the argument.

 

The idea itself being player choice can't be debated as right or wrong in this instance. A sweeping change like taking all the black/multicolored cores out of the game for everyone would be debatable. This isn't the same thing at all. I hope you understand that. If not, thanks for the bump at least.

No, because allocating dev resources for a feature that has no real reasoning is debatable. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of small quality of life or optional features they could work on, the question is why is your's one they should? It has no canonical/lore (it's canon, not cannon.) backing. If we're going by just what the movies show, then a total game rehaul has to be done.

 

I mean, god, you can argue purple and green weren't even in Lucas's original vision for Star Wars. Green was included because blue wouldn't show up in the sky in ROTJ and purple was included because Samuel Jackson wanted a unique color and purple was his favorite. You can split hairs all you want, but truth is, this game is built on Extended Universe, and will draw from the EU.

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No, because allocating dev resources for a feature that has no real reasoning is debatable. There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of small quality of life or optional features they could work on, the question is why is your's one they should? It has no canonical/lore (it's canon, not cannon.) backing. If we're going by just what the movies show, then a total game rehaul has to be done.

 

I mean, god, you can argue purple and green weren't even in Lucas's original vision for Star Wars. Green was included because blue wouldn't show up in the sky in ROTJ and purple was included because Samuel Jackson wanted a unique color and purple was his favorite. You can split hairs all you want, but truth is, this game is built on Extended Universe, and will draw from the EU.

 

That's an interesting argument about purple and green and I was aware of that. It's not relevant here though. I never implied this needed to happen right now. I'd like to see it happen but I'm not demanding it immediately.

 

The removal of stats from color crystals is one step towards this and they have indicated they are going to be looking into that. There's no reason this can't at least be suggested while are exploring color crystal changes. It's the perfect time to start this debate.

 

One of the reasons they are considering removing the stats is because people are forced into color choices to seek the BIS for their weapons. This is a natural next step to giving additional freedom of choice.

 

You are welcomed to oppose it but at best I'd think being indifferent is all that's warranted.

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I have yet to see anything you've posted that would lead me to believe that my idea isn't valid. What you are doing is called a red herring because you are trying to invalidate the idea without actually being able to do so, thereby focusing on a part of it that doesn't actually address the issue. If you want to quote obscure comic books be my guest.

 

On the contrary, I've been showing you links to actual canon information about lightsaber colors that are very similar to the ones that you are complaining about. That is very relevant to the discussion, as you claimed that these colors were contrary to or dissimilar from colors that were found in Star Wars lore.

 

Anyone that grew up on the original trilogy knows what a lightsaber is and what it looks like. It is one of the iconic pieces of star wars lore. People know what it is even if they aren't a star wars fan.

 

I grew up with the original trilogy. However, I'm not artificially limiting my knowledge of Star Wars to the original trilogy. Let me be more clear:

 

Star Wars is much more than the Original Trilogy. It is more than the Prequel Trilogy.

 

The core Star Wars cannon is Original Trilogy, Prequel Trilogy and Clone Wars cartoon. The Extended Universe, which SWTOR is part of, includes all the books, video games, and non-contradictory comics. While you might only care about the original trilogy, that's irrelevant to the game, as the game is in the EU and uses EU lore. In EU lore, black cores exist, as well as a number of alternate color combinations and saber appearances.

 

Your insistence on thinking that SWTOR must restrict itself to what existed in the Original Trilogy is the red herring, if there is one.

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Yes it is and yes it is.

 

I just think that the toggle seems a bit like a niche need compared to other things, but if that's what the majority want then I am all for it as long as its an optional feature and not mandatory. I would say that I still don't see why a pink lightsaber is much of a jump from the other colors. Even if it is, one of the reasons I love TOR and the KOTOR games is it expands the lore of the Star Wars without damaging the films continuity. It can add new ideas, cultures and styles. :)

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I would rather they spend resources in doing useful stuff.

 

I like having different colours on my sabers. I collect all crystals and keep swapping them around. I want people to view the exact colour I am using at any particular point in time. It reflects what I and hence my character is feeling.

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Are the black core sabers' the most powerful? I'd personally be happy if you could find/buy the equivalent with a white core. That would give players more choice - - that way players aren't forced into having a black core when they want the best gear.

 

Most of these color crystals are bought on the WZ market right? Again just add the same equivalent to the buy menu with white cores.

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Are the black core sabers' the most powerful? I'd personally be happy if you could find/buy the equivalent with a white core. That would give players more choice - - that way players aren't forced into having a black core when they want the best gear.

 

Most of these color crystals are bought on the WZ market right? Again just add the same equivalent to the buy menu with white cores.

 

White-core sabers with equivalent stats already exist for all colors.

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When you try to bring in obscure comic books or CGI shows that have contradicted their own source material and even rebooted themselves multiple times that's exactly what it is- an attempt to redefine the argument.

 

Sorry, but that "CGI show" is more authoritative in SW lore than the game you're playing. That is, if Clone Wars says that the leader of Havok Squad later betrayed the Republic and decided to marry a Hutt and herd monkey-lizards, then that's how it happened.

 

At best, the game is on par with (most of) the obscure comic books.

 

I'm sorry if that annoys you, but that's the way it is. That's the universe you're playing in. You're not playing a game based on the Original Trilogy. The Troopers? Those are inspired by Clone Wars (even more than Attack of the Clones or Empire). The Bounty Hunters? Clone Wars and comics, again. Smugglers? They get a lot of inspiration from the books. Inquisitors? Those are based more on the books/comics, too (with visuals obviously borrowed from Darth Maul). Remember that Sith Blade you start off with at the beginning of the Sith Warrior story? Yeah, that's from the books and comics. And Ragnos, Kresh, Sadow, etc? Books and comics. Tukata, Kath hounds, Advozse? Comics. Rattataki? Clone Wars. Pureblood Sith? Comics and books.

 

If you're insisting on following just the Original Series, then we should ditch all of those things to protect your immersion, yes?

 

The idea itself being player choice can't be debated as right or wrong in this instance. A sweeping change like taking all the black/multicolored cores out of the game for everyone would be debatable. This isn't the same thing at all. I hope you understand that. If not, thanks for the bump at least.

 

Actually it can. As a software developer one of the first things that needs to be learned when designing a user experience is: "Making it an option is not always a good solution" Especially in a game that is based on the established lore of a universe --where the game itself is building and expanding that lore-- there is a strong motivation to create a single, authoritative view of the world. Having an option to turn off weather would be fine. Having an option to make Dromund Kaas sunny is not.

 

To that end: Continuing the pre-existing pattern of multiple colors and alternate core colors that was set up by the lore at the same canon level as the game would be a default behavior. Providing an option to go against the current surrounding canon would actually run contrary to immersion.

 

...that is, assuming you define immersion to be "matching the lore of the universe the game is set in" rather than "matching the lore of just the part of the universe that I like".

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Are the black core sabers' the most powerful? I'd personally be happy if you could find/buy the equivalent with a white core. That would give players more choice - - that way players aren't forced into having a black core when they want the best gear.

 

Most of these color crystals are bought on the WZ market right? Again just add the same equivalent to the buy menu with white cores.

 

White-core sabers with equivalent stats already exist for all colors.

 

Then to Op,

 

I suggest next time you see someone wielding a black-core saber, don't let it bother you like it should bother them.

 

Sincerely,

Grant

 

P.S. - Yes black core sabers bother me too. Nothing beats how annoyed I was at all the pre-order black-yellow sabers running around at launch. Thanks for that Bioware.

Edited by OMGrant
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Sorry, but that "CGI show" is more authoritative in SW lore than the game you're playing. That is, if Clone Wars says that the leader of Havok Squad later betrayed the Republic and decided to marry a Hutt and herd monkey-lizards, then that's how it happened.

 

At best, the game is on par with (most of) the obscure comic books.

 

I'm sorry if that annoys you, but that's the way it is. That's the universe you're playing in. You're not playing a game based on the Original Trilogy. The Troopers? Those are inspired by Clone Wars (even more than Attack of the Clones or Empire). The Bounty Hunters? Clone Wars and comics, again. Smugglers? They get a lot of inspiration from the books. Inquisitors? Those are based more on the books/comics, too (with visuals obviously borrowed from Darth Maul). Remember that Sith Blade you start off with at the beginning of the Sith Warrior story? Yeah, that's from the books and comics. And Ragnos, Kresh, Sadow, etc? Books and comics. Tukata, Kath hounds, Advozse? Comics. Rattataki? Clone Wars. Pureblood Sith? Comics and books.

 

If you're insisting on following just the Original Series, then we should ditch all of those things to protect your immersion, yes?

 

 

 

Actually it can. As a software developer one of the first things that needs to be learned when designing a user experience is: "Making it an option is not always a good solution" Especially in a game that is based on the established lore of a universe --where the game itself is building and expanding that lore-- there is a strong motivation to create a single, authoritative view of the world. Having an option to turn off weather would be fine. Having an option to make Dromund Kaas sunny is not.

 

To that end: Continuing the pre-existing pattern of multiple colors and alternate core colors that was set up by the lore at the same canon level as the game would be a default behavior. Providing an option to go against the current surrounding canon would actually run contrary to immersion.

 

...that is, assuming you define immersion to be "matching the lore of the universe the game is set in" rather than "matching the lore of just the part of the universe that I like".

 

*slow clap*

 

Well done, sir.

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I would rather they spend resources in doing useful stuff.

 

I like having different colours on my sabers. I collect all crystals and keep swapping them around. I want people to view the exact colour I am using at any particular point in time. It reflects what I and hence my character is feeling.

 

Well that's where the cartel coin market comes in handy. New things like this can be added to the market and pay for themselves so it's never a waste of development resources.

 

Actually a conversion script wouldn't be that hard. If I was a bioware dev I could even do it over a weekend. One of the coolest additions in the bounty hunter system with missions that spawned really difficult NPC's in SWG was done by one of the devs by working on the weekend for something they wanted to make themselves.

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All lightsabers have a white core. Now you know what we are discussing and you can choose to respond on the same page as the rest of us.

 

My Sith Warrior has a lightsaber with black core.

 

SWTOR is canon. Of the extended Universe. It has objects six movies don't have. Like different gear. A lot of people like it, myself included.

 

I think the ability to tweak what you see would be wonderful. In fact, if they had open API, someone could make an addon for that. There was an addon for WoW that made every character go naked, for example (even without the underwear). So it's doable!

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Pink/Purple is not Star Wars.

 

So with the release of the cartel packs these terrible looking sabers are EVERYWHERE because of their high stats. For the people that actually appreciate the holy grail of Star Wars immersion, I.E the lightsaber, this is really an eye sore. Last night I did a BT run on a new BH and the other 3 people in the party all had the hideous saber. It's everywhere because it's best in slot for level 10-50 :(

 

I'd like to see a toggle system (and I'd be willing to pay to unlock with coins it to cover dev costs) that will change all saber cores on my screen to a white internal core. This allows the person who thinks that the purple/pink or red/black saber looks awesome to see it on their screen without reminding me how silly it looks every time I see it. To me it would look purple with a while core or red with a while core. They still see the red/black that they wanted to see. I think this is might be quite popular as many people enjoy Star Wars lore and having the toggle appeases both audiences.

 

I realize that ugly sabers are here to stay but it really takes away from the connection with Star Wars. Swinging a saber from Candyland isn't inspiring.

 

 

To further clarify what I mean:

 

Examine this image from Dulfy. http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/colorcrystalspanel3.jpg

 

The lightsabers on the left are star wars based, all lightsabers in the movies and star wars lore have a central white core with a colored outer glow. This is the case in each of the 6 movies.

 

The lightsabers on the right are NOT star wars, they are exactly what I would do if I wanted to have an item similar to a lightsaber in a non Star Wars licensed game if I was a game designer.

 

Notice how each of the black or colored cores has an opposite "cannon" version. The toggle I'm requesting will change the lightsaber on the right to the lightsaber on the left for people that desire it.

 

 

What it means to you if you like the ugly sabers. Absolutely nothing. You still see your awesome pink/purple popsicle and the people that don't want to look at it don't have to. It's a win win and will allow us to at least pretend that keeping a game 'Starwarsy' (one of the biggest complaints about SWG was it wasn't starwarsy enough ironically) is important to a portion of the fan base.

/Signed

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Your canon argument doesn't hold since there are so many things in the game that are under black core sabers in terms of canon. (as a matter of fact, the darksaber appears in the clone wars CGI and this is of much much higher canon than this game).

 

Besides, if they'd add a toggle like you ask with this tantrum of yours, then people will start to ask toggle for things that are even more ridiculous : jedi in BH armors, BH in undies, Inquisitors in commando armors, deployable carbonite contraption whereas in the movies it's risky and require a whole building and a crew, and so much more...

 

Look : saber colour blades annoy you, but yet seeing BH running naked with an easter bell on the head doesn't ?

 

Immersion wise they are many many things that are worse... Hood toggle is already on the backburner and you really think they're going to listen to you and work on adding a saber colour toggle at a time they even are not able to fix sabers that stay lit on companions ?

 

Are you serious ?

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I love it when people try to set their own rules for what "is" and "isn't" Star Wars. This isn't the first game/movie/book/cartoon that has used more exotic colors...and it won't be the last.

 

Unless you're George Lucas or Walt Disney, deal with it.

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