I never said the game IS dying, I said it WAS dying.

 

You make no sense at all. You are saying my numbers are wrong, yet they were higher than yours. Therefore, you are arguing that the game is doing worse than I surmised it was and calling me a chicken little,

You said:

They only sold around 2-2.5 million I think it was.

 

F2P bought them some time. It's up in the air as to what they will do with that time, but the initial track record is not overly promising. They've still done almost nothing to fix the reasons why they lost those 1.5-2 million subscribers in the first place.

Then you said to another:

Essentially it broke down to they have the income equivalent of 1 million subscribers, or half what they started with.

Then I came back that they never lost 1.5 - 2 million subscribers. I also pointed out that their revenue has more than doubled since F2P. They lost about a million subs between launch and F2P, thus if the new players are spending the equivalent of 1 million subs, that is... about where they started at launch.

Why is a matter of opinion, as it always is when people like or dislike things. Shocking. If you have higher numbers, then they are based on speculation by gamers and so-called "experts" (who are nothing of the sort). If you expected higher numbers, then that's your problem. A MMO is "breaking even" at 500,000 subs (or making at least $7.5 million a month), which as I linked earlier (the BBC article), they were doing before F2P.

You are right about something dying. The sub-only model is on it's way out. I seriously doubt there will ever be another MMO success like WoW, just like there will never be another "Beatles". Since subs are going the way of the dodo, using that as the metric to measure a game's "health" and to be able to speculate as to how long it'll last is also over.

Will SWTOR eventually end? Yes. When? No one knows, and anyone claiming they do is full of it.

FYI: I subbed after the game went F2P; in second week of December, in fact. So my anecdotal experience has been F2P leads to a healthier game.

If your point is that there isn't enough of the content for you (and players like you), then that is purely subjective and applies only to you and players like you. I'm fairly content, and I'll point out that this is the only MMO I've been enthusiastic to make alts for. Three so far, with a fourth soon to come. If you are tired of what's available, then you need to take a break from this game. Go play something else for a while, then come back when you can't recite dialogue from memory. Me, I intend to do what I'm doing now and keep "switching sides" with each character. If I get tired of that, I'll go play Aion or something for a few months and maybe some console or handheld RPGs (still need to get Persona 4 Golden anyway).

Games end. So will this one. MMOs are not the perpetual motion machines so many "experts" thought. Oh well.

The only thing that keeps me from leaping off a tall building is knowing that one day we'll all die in a doomsday or an apocalypse or something and a new species will hyper evolve into the dominant life form and learn from our evolutionary faux pas.

I'm confused. Why would this stop you from leaping off a tall building? You won't be around either way, and I doubt the advanced genius super manatees that replace us will care that one day, one human jumped off a bridge rather than sticking around and dying in the apocalypse.

Personally, I think anyone spending that kind of money on any game is nuts, but to each their own.

 

Someone spending $300 every couple of months is worth about 10 subscribers. Someone spending $0 is worth nothing. You can bet that there are hundreds of thousands spending $0 and at best a couple of thousand spending big dollars. It is not a sustainable model to rely on that amount of disparity.

You are ignoring the group that spends dollars between those values. Lots of people will drop some money on the game now and then.

I'm confused. Why would this stop you from leaping off a tall building? You won't be around either way, and I doubt the advanced genius super manatees that replace us will care that one day, one human jumped off a bridge rather than sticking around and dying in the apocalypse.

Duh, Carbonite freezing.

*jerks thumb at you*

This guy.

Was not expecting this to reach 8 pages. Wow

Well when you make a statement about fearing for the game without doing research this is what you get.

The thing for me is... "Is this revenue system sustainable?" just adding cosmetic stuff (which im very guilty of buying, no excuses) over & over.. without trying to tweak the main issues why players were leaving in the first place would still result in death... albeit just a much much slower one?

Not to sound a drama monkey like the OP but.. every so often I log in and think.. this cartel market is junk, why am I still playing when they're so obviously milking us?

Well when you make a statement about fearing for the game without doing research this is what you get.

Not here to debate on what I said. I created this thread to see the opinions people have about the future of the game. Judging from the responses and debates going on, i'd say I did a good job wording my thread.

Duh, Carbonite freezing.

 

*jerks thumb at you*

 

This guy.

Well excuse me for FOCUSING ON THE ISSUES.

Not here to debate on what I said. I created this thread to see the opinions people have about the future of the game. Judging from the responses and debates going on, i'd say I did a good job wording my thread.

I'm not debating either. I don't like the premise of the thread because the future of the game looks quite brighter to me. But the debates that have ensued are interesting.

New Everquest will kill swtor sorry

What new Everquest?

The thing for me is... "Is this revenue system sustainable?" just adding cosmetic stuff (which im very guilty of buying, no excuses) over & over.. without trying to tweak the main issues why players were leaving in the first place would still result in death... albeit just a much much slower one?

 

Not to sound a drama monkey like the OP but.. every so often I log in and think.. this cartel market is junk, why am I still playing when they're so obviously milking us?

I think that this is true to some degree. One person posted that the reasons for the large drop in subs soon after launch still exist. I think that is true. There was a large pool of people that were excited about a SW themed game before launch and a large pool of people who tried the game when it went f2p. It could well be that those sources of potential players are now mostly exhausted. I do not see another source of new players that would replace them. Makeb has launched and the next expansion will be quite some time in coming. New games will be launching this year or perhaps early next and regardless of any individual's opinion, they will take some players from swtor.

After the sale of about 2.5 million copies and conversion of some f2p accounts to subs the game now stands at a little less than 500K subs. I take the statement that the number of subs has stablilized with a grain of salt and do not see that as an indication of future performance. This does not bode well and if the current subs decline the game will be in a bad place.

Some players spend quite a bit on the CM and some none and many are between the two extreams. I would think that CM sales is a function of the number of players. That functon would have to facator variables such as new f2p (initial unlocks), continuing f2p and subs for continuing unlocks and fluff sales. Clearly, if the number of players decreases so will CM sates. There is also the question in the quoted post of increasing resistance to and decreasing interest in CM offerings. That exists and the combinaion of decreasing pop and decreasing sales in existing pop will have a negitive effect on the volume of CM sales.

There will always be those who love this game and will continue to play. To them I wish the best of luck and hope that the game lives on for a while for their sake.

Having over 6 million copies sold when this game came out and only having around 500k subs scares me.

 

F2P doesn't bring in as much money compared to subs, even with the Cartel market.

 

Anyone else fear for the future of the game?

First off they never sold 6 million copies. it was a little over 3 million. If EA is staing 6 million its 3 million more downloads from F2p. Secondly the future of this game is its cartel market it simply wont get quality content updates unless they nickel and dime you to death at the CC market with DLC. Im disappointed in this very bleak big buisness devolpment of MMO's the new thing is kick starter some of these uber talented devs that were the actuall brains behind the MMO genre have broken away from big publishers and are making their own games .

No, they sold 2 million units, period. And only ever had a maximum of 1.7 million players, pre-F2P.

 

No one knows the exact number of subscribers lost between this point of over 500,000 but under a million and the two million new players since the introduction of F2P. Thus there never could have been a "[loss of] 1.5-2 million subscribers". They never had 2 million in the first place before they went F2P. If they lost 1.5 million, that would have placed them at 200,000, which is less than 500,000. That would be a direct contradiction of their own statements.

 

Those are the sources for my numbers, please state yours CosmicKat. I saw articles stating that SWTOR was in trouble, but ALL of them were almost a year old. The "newest" being August 2012.

 

Personally, I'm really sick and tired of the Chicken Little-like behavior going around.

2.57 million "sold"

They never said "2 million new players" - it was 2 million new "accounts" since F2P - words mean things.

Clearly they have lost around 2 million "subscribers" if they have steadied out around 500k subs.

But this is all moot - people are foolishly assuming F2P people are accounting for the revenue increase - they add some, but they surely aren't the bulk of the increased revenue. Subscribers buying cartel market items are mainly why revenue is doubled, not F2P folk.

edit: I'd also be very curious to see where the Makeb revenue was allocated.

2.57 million "sold"

They never said "2 million new players" - it was 2 million new "accounts" since F2P - words mean things.

Clearly they have lost around 2 million "subscribers" if they have steadied out around 500k subs.

 

But this is all moot - people are foolishly assuming F2P people are accounting for the revenue increase - they add some, but they surely aren't the bulk of the increased revenue. Subscribers buying cartel market items are mainly why revenue is doubled, not F2P folk.

 

edit: I'd also be very curious to see where the Makeb revenue was allocated.

First, who is VGCharts, and where do they get their numbers? But for now I'll accept those numbers. Question: How many of those copies were used? And...see next point.

Two, "units sold" usually means what's sold to retailers, not players.

Third, source of your certainty that it's subs supplying most of the revenue from the Cartel Market, please. I can't find any reliable sources for any spending numbers.

This isn't directed at you, TUXs, but I'm tired of seeing these threads, filled with "facts" that are nothing more than opinion and speculation.

What new Everquest?

It was a joke.

Was not expecting this to reach 8 pages. Wow

Of course you were. You knew the topic was "hot" when you posted your OP.

First, who is VGCharts, and where do they get their numbers? But for now I'll accept those numbers. Question: How many of those copies were used? And...see next point.

 

Two, "units sold" usually means what's sold to retailers, not players.

 

Third, source of your certainty that it's subs supplying most of the revenue from the Cartel Market, please. I can't find any reliable sources for any spending numbers.

 

This isn't directed at you, TUXs, but I'm tired of seeing these threads, filled with "facts" that are nothing more than opinion and speculation.

As am I - which is why I replied to your post which stated numbers as "fact". I don't really know how accurate VG Charts is, but I know it's more accurate than your guessing.

As for proving to you that Subs are buying the bulk of the CM items, I can't "prove" that to you, nor can you prove me wrong. I have no "source" other than seeing what is obviously happening in-game. You are free to disagree, but I'm certain I'm correct. My observations may be limited, but I'm quite confident in my assumption being accurate. To me, the idea that someone who is F2P would go ahead and spend $15 on armor, is quite silly - I'm sure a few do, but not enough to make up 500K worth of subs.

I fear for the future of threads raising moot points.

No need to fear for that.

TOFN is alredy down to standard even on sundays, but this game have always lost pvp subs 10 times faster.

Goes without saying when there is no reason to pvp in this game then laggy warzones.

No need to fear for that.

I lol'd.

It was a joke.

 

Everquest: Next is the official title, I believe.

You're so sure? Girl on my server spends almost 300 dollars per new pack, I spend roughly 80-120 per new pack depending on how bad an item is in there I would want in the packs. and there are people who buy a few hypercrates(more than 50 dollars worth) who sell the packs on the GTN for credits aswell on Jung ma. If it is the same on the other servers, I think its safe to say the money flow is roughly the same, and noting. a lot of people quit after the first month, so 6 million subscribers were just the hype mode of launch, and can't really be used to compare to the rest of the games existence.

lol its just funny seeing you ppl spend your hard earned money on vanity crap. BW/EA love you for it.