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Too Much Damage? What?


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Ok, I'm an enormous fan of this game, and I played WoW before this one, but one thing I've encountered on 2 different bosses has been too much damage. I've been working on going through the HM operations, and I've noticed that both the Zorn and Toth fight as well as the Writhing Horror fight on TFB HM can be basically bugged by doing too much damage. In Zorn and Toth, you can push too many phases too quickly and have him jumping during a red circle phase, and for the Writhing Horror, you can rip aggro off a tank in the first 20 seconds of the fight, causing the adds to spawn prior to the red circles dropping on the flowers.

 

Now, my character has full DG and the other 3 dps in the group had minimum of BH gear with some DG, so we weren't even fully geared, but we have had these issues on both of these fights. How can you create a fight on HM that has a short enrage timer but you can mess the fight up by dealing too much damage too quickly? This has to be optimized to handle the highest level gear. This is an unacceptable bug, even if we were still able to just hold off doing certain abilities.

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I've ran into this issue with Hard Mode Kaon Under Siege. Do not remember the boss. It was the giant Rakghoul that you had to run in a circle.

But this has an easy fix: Fight without a chestpiece or leggings. It was pretty fun to fight him in only underwear, XD

 

The only time this is a problem is with dual bosses. I've seen weird issues arise when the party focuses down one of the bosses then switches around 10%, kills the other boss, then finishes off the original.

But this case has an easy fix as well: Have some of the Damage Dealers focus down the other boss.

And if you still have problems, fight nude.

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Ok, I'm an enormous fan of this game, and I played WoW before this one, but one thing I've encountered on 2 different bosses has been too much damage. I've been working on going through the HM operations, and I've noticed that both the Zorn and Toth fight as well as the Writhing Horror fight on TFB HM can be basically bugged by doing too much damage. In Zorn and Toth, you can push too many phases too quickly and have him jumping during a red circle phase, and for the Writhing Horror, you can rip aggro off a tank in the first 20 seconds of the fight, causing the adds to spawn prior to the red circles dropping on the flowers.

 

Now, my character has full DG and the other 3 dps in the group had minimum of BH gear with some DG, so we weren't even fully geared, but we have had these issues on both of these fights. How can you create a fight on HM that has a short enrage timer but you can mess the fight up by dealing too much damage too quickly? This has to be optimized to handle the highest level gear. This is an unacceptable bug, even if we were still able to just hold off doing certain abilities.

 

Bug? You mean you ought to learn how to play right?

 

First of all, we always push Zorn & Toth, and he doesn't jump during a red circle phase if you go beyond the treshold, but he instantly jumps the moment it ends. It's a non-issue, simply have your tanks anticipate and directly swap along. You can easily time it. Sure there's no big, red, flashing text on your screen indicating it, but little tact comes a long way.

 

As for the Writhing Horror, also, working as intended. The little adds spawn based on the debuff on the tank getting lost. The red circle spawn coincidental with the spawning of the add. So usually that's where a tank swaps, adds come in on a number based on the stack count the tank had, and you go on. If however tanks swap prematurely, or a tank loses aggro and fails to retake aggro prior to his stacks run out (which by the way is roughly 5 ~ 10 seconds or so) you WILL get the adds early.

 

In both scenarios, it's just a matter of learning to tank. Throw guard on your highest threat pulling DPS as both tanks to reduce their threat. Make effective use of your taunts within your rotation. Do a high aggro opener, do your short CD taunt, about 7 seconds later your high CD taunt followed by the short CD taunt directly after the jump. If your group still manages to pull threat, let them more effectively use their threat reduction skills as DPS.

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Ok, I'm an enormous fan of this game, and I played WoW before this one, but one thing I've encountered on 2 different bosses has been too much damage. I've been working on going through the HM operations, and I've noticed that both the Zorn and Toth fight as well as the Writhing Horror fight on TFB HM can be basically bugged by doing too much damage. In Zorn and Toth, you can push too many phases too quickly and have him jumping during a red circle phase, and for the Writhing Horror, you can rip aggro off a tank in the first 20 seconds of the fight, causing the adds to spawn prior to the red circles dropping on the flowers.

 

Now, my character has full DG and the other 3 dps in the group had minimum of BH gear with some DG, so we weren't even fully geared, but we have had these issues on both of these fights. How can you create a fight on HM that has a short enrage timer but you can mess the fight up by dealing too much damage too quickly? This has to be optimized to handle the highest level gear. This is an unacceptable bug, even if we were still able to just hold off doing certain abilities.

 

This has happened to me on EC HM and Kaon.

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Right, completely unacceptable. How dare they let a bug that affects maybe 1 party per server and can be easily avoided and instead focus on those bugs that the other common mortals have???

 

Really? I know at least 3 Guilds this happens to on Harbinger; Momentum, MLP, and EoM (Republic side)

Edited by Toweleeeie
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Ok, I'm an enormous fan of this game, and I played WoW before this one, but one thing I've encountered on 2 different bosses has been too much damage. I've been working on going through the HM operations, and I've noticed that both the Zorn and Toth fight as well as the Writhing Horror fight on TFB HM can be basically bugged by doing too much damage. In Zorn and Toth, you can push too many phases too quickly and have him jumping during a red circle phase, and for the Writhing Horror, you can rip aggro off a tank in the first 20 seconds of the fight, causing the adds to spawn prior to the red circles dropping on the flowers.

 

Now, my character has full DG and the other 3 dps in the group had minimum of BH gear with some DG, so we weren't even fully geared, but we have had these issues on both of these fights. How can you create a fight on HM that has a short enrage timer but you can mess the fight up by dealing too much damage too quickly? This has to be optimized to handle the highest level gear. This is an unacceptable bug, even if we were still able to just hold off doing certain abilities.

 

Well my group simply stops dps at certain times to avoid skipping phases. But yeah it's annoying. You come to a new Operation and you try to do as much dps as possible and it becomes habit, after a while you get experienced and have to try to make less and less dps, or get punished by bugs... makes no sense....

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Well my group simply stops dps at certain times to avoid skipping phases. But yeah it's annoying. You come to a new Operation and you try to do as much dps as possible and it becomes habit, after a while you get experienced and have to try to make less and less dps, or get punished by bugs... makes no sense....

 

The thing though is, increased DPS and skipping phases doesn't punish you, as long as the raiding team is flexible enough to adapt to it and respond more rapidly.

 

For example on Warlord Kephess in EC you can also skip, by downing the giant droid in 2 phases rather than 3. This will make Kephess come down whilst the 2 last droids appear. Allowing for a tank to pull in Kephess on top of the smaller droids, facing away from the raid. And simply having the raid nuke both Kephess and the droids at the same time. Something which only helps further speeding up the kill.

 

Firebrand and Stormcaller you can also pump hard enough in SM to skip DD and the tank armor debuff if the DPS plan their burst phases well.

 

Kephess the Undying in TFB is the same story, in SM when upon entering the last phase if you knock down the pillar at 10% and nuke with overgeared people, you can have him dead before he comes up. In HM you can already bring him down to 3 ~ 4%. A few more gear upgrades and there too you can simply skip the last phase.

 

The real question is, why do additional redundant phases, whilst it's perfectly possible to just pump through them without it running into a situation where the boss can't be killed?

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There have always been bugs due to having too much DPS.

 

Gharj, since beta, has decided that being DPS'd too fast makes him never leave the first island. This may cause your party to get confused and end up in lava.

 

Explosive Conflict: If you kill the walker in 2 attacks instead of 3, you have to fight like Kephess, kephess, kephess, and pulsar droids all at the same time. It's all bugged up.

 

Toth and Zorn phases can overlap if your dps is too good. Actually I think they fixed that one. But you used to be able to make them Jump mid-yellow-circle-phase and it messed things up.

 

I don't recall playing another game where doing too much damage broke the encounter myself.

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Yeah, and this isn't just a problem only a few guilds are encountering per server. I've been in PUGs on HM EC and TFB and have had this happen even without ever going with them before. And honestly, the endgame should get a high priority because that's where everyone will end up when the eventuality of their leveling is over. Any fight where you have to stop dps for a second because you're dealing too much damage is poorly constructed.

 

And to the person who said the tanks need to learn better aggro rotations obviously hasn't played this game much. If you have a very geared sentinel, their Master Strike ability will rip aggro all the time, even from an absurdly geared tank. The game isn't quite balanced yet on certain classes, so aggro is always a problem. I've had guard put on me before and still ripped aggro on certain phases of fights. It's only a problem 2% of the time, but still annoying nonetheless.

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Right, completely unacceptable. How dare they let a bug that affects maybe 1 party per server and can be easily avoided and instead focus on those bugs that the other common mortals have???

No, he's right. It's dumb that groups are punished for being "too good". It should never be that way where you have to do a complete DPS spot just so the scripted encounter can go through it's motions.

 

I also played in WoW and never had to have a raid say "woah, woah, slow down. Boss X has to do Y Ability before we push him to Z % HP left".

 

It's a bad mechanic.

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No, he's right. It's dumb that groups are punished for being "too good". It should never be that way where you have to do a complete DPS spot just so the scripted encounter can go through it's motions.

 

I also played in WoW and never had to have a raid say "woah, woah, slow down. Boss X has to do Y Ability before we push him to Z % HP left".

 

It's a bad mechanic.

 

To be honest, WoW has had issues with pushing phases too fast in heavily scripted encounters, though not to the extent it seems to be prevalent in SWTOR and most of the time it was more of a 'we must push X before the next Y ability, but not push X while Y ability is in use'.

 

The problem seems to be the use of inflexible rules coupled to fixed timings set in the scripting such that the encounter expects you to do everything the same way at the same speed along a fixed time path, and if you don't complete every single step (or allow the script to complete every single step) in the right order at the right speed, you will run into problems including possible having the entire encounter bug out.

Edited by DawnAskham
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FYI, the Gharj one island bug happens irrespective of dps.

 

But... yea, our guild manages dps based on a percnetage of health. It seems to work well and the tanks sure to appreciate it.

Can't just do percentages. On Toth and Zorn you have to also factor in the Fearful debuffs on the tanks.

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The only actual problem here is the Toth and Zorn fight. If you dps too fast, you could cause a jump before fearful wears off of the tank. This is fine if there isn't much duration later because the tank can just hold with taunt for the last few seconds. If the debuff has significant time left though, the only real out is pull dps a bit.

 

Writhing Horror does not have a problem with too much much dps. Your problem is that you tanks do not produce enough threat. Like any boss anywhere if your tank can't keep up with the threat per second of a dps, the dps is going pull the boss. This boss simply has an explicit mechanical penalty for this. Combat logging can be used to parse threat per second, have your tanks work on their threat rotation just like you would have a dps work on the dps rotation. If that's still not enough, try replacing your tank's endurance color crystals with power. Try having your tank burn an attack adrenal during the boss opening. Make sure your highest threat party members are guarded. Make sure all the dps know to use threat drops and when.

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Writhing Horror does not have a problem with too much much dps. Your problem is that you tanks do not produce enough threat. Like any boss anywhere if your tank can't keep up with the threat per second of a dps, the dps is going pull the boss. This boss simply has an explicit mechanical penalty for this. Combat logging can be used to parse threat per second, have your tanks work on their threat rotation just like you would have a dps work on the dps rotation. If that's still not enough, try replacing your tank's endurance color crystals with power. Try having your tank burn an attack adrenal during the boss opening. Make sure your highest threat party members are guarded. Make sure all the dps know to use threat drops and when.
No, it has to do with getting the little adds with a Jealous Mate at the same time as his <10% HP mechanic where adds just start showing up.
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No, it has to do with getting the little adds with a Jealous Mate at the same time as his <10% HP mechanic where adds just start showing up.

 

I was more replying to the people talking about pulling off the tank and getting adds without a pool.

 

The 10% burn is not really a problem of too much dps. If you had good dps, you'd have downed him before the fourth Jealous Mate phase. If you claim to get the twisted spawns during your third Jealous Mate, I'd express severe doubt until you could prove it with a combat log. After seeing such a log, I would concede you have problem of having too much dps. If you get them during your fourth Jealous Mate, your party in no way has too much dps. The boss hits his hard enrage very shortly after the fourth mate shows.

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This is not an issue of our tanks not being able to keep aggro enough, at least not the way it has been stated. Both tanks are highly geared and hardly ever miss a taunt or mess up their rotation. But with popping inspiration right in the beginning of the fight to coincide with the power use relics and my Flyby, tanks aren't given enough ability to sustain threat through that kinda of dps output, especially with 2 sentinels hitting master strike during that phase. Threat generation simply hasn't been balanced well to keep up with Dread Guard level gear for DPS.

 

That being said, we had to wait to use Inspiration and wait to use the power use relics until tanks could generate enough threat. There should be absolutely no concept of "too much dps." This should be something that's impossible to do, especially with a boss that has an enrage timer. The Zorn and Toth fight is way worse, I agree, but the Writhing Horror fight is bugged when you do too much damage too quickly and rip aggro off the tank.

 

And honestly, if you aren't encountering these issues, you might want to make sure your dps are doing the proper rotations. I've had to leave the flyby completely out of my rotation in order to not bug the fight. That is just not acceptable.

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This is actually a common bug on a lot of their bosses, if the DPS hits too hard on HK in the foundry he bugs, Malgus also bugs, the pipe boss in Lost Island (this one is funny if you hit too hard he doesn't do his chest pounding and just jumps straight to the pipes making this boss much easier) to neame but a few.

 

In the Operations the only main bug I have seen is with Bonecrusher where he can do an insta-enrage and swipe for 20k+ dmg causing an insta-wipe.

 

For the tank aggro issue, we usually have to get our main dps to give the tank 3 seconds to build up enough aggro (oh what we do for an aggro meter in this game)

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This is not an issue of our tanks not being able to keep aggro enough, at least not the way it has been stated. Both tanks are highly geared and hardly ever miss a taunt or mess up their rotation. But with popping inspiration right in the beginning of the fight to coincide with the power use relics and my Flyby, tanks aren't given enough ability to sustain threat through that kinda of dps output, especially with 2 sentinels hitting master strike during that phase. Threat generation simply hasn't been balanced well to keep up with Dread Guard level gear for DPS.

 

That being said, we had to wait to use Inspiration and wait to use the power use relics until tanks could generate enough threat. There should be absolutely no concept of "too much dps." This should be something that's impossible to do, especially with a boss that has an enrage timer. The Zorn and Toth fight is way worse, I agree, but the Writhing Horror fight is bugged when you do too much damage too quickly and rip aggro off the tank.

 

If your start off a fight with Inspiration Bloodlust, Adnreal and relic, then your tank should be using DPS relics (2 x power) , Adrenal, and DPS gears. The alternative is DON'T BE STUPID and wait after the first tank swap.

 

Ripping aggro off the tank is not a bug. It's a feature of the encounter.

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Yeah,

 

This type of thing happens on the Foundry as well. If you beat-the-**** out of HK-47 to quickly he will glitch and not come out of that big metal dome he hides in.

 

I'm new to MMO's but, punishing some one for doing excellent DPS seems.....well......Just wrong.:confused:

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