Jump to content

Let's Talk Forum Rules


EricMusco

Recommended Posts

  • Dev Post

Hey everyone,

 

As I am sure many of you have noticed, it has been the Community Team's goal to try a new direction in communication. We are aiming to speak with you more, in a more casual way, and with more information.

 

Some of you may have then wondered "what does this new approach mean for forum rules?" Actually, maybe none of you were asking that, but I am going to answer it anyway. The reason? Because that is going to change a bit as well.

 

Before I explain specifics I want to stress what our goals are for these forums. The forums are meant to be a place where people can come, express their opinions and have constructive discussions without fear of attack or harassment. Please always keep this in mind! Let's talk details:

 

Where we will be more lenient:

 

  • General "internet" style chatter. In the past we have been pretty harsh about some things, such as calling someone a "troll" or throwing out a "can I have your stuff?". We would remove these types of posts and they could possibly incur a warning or an infraction. In general, we are going to let this slide a bit more, but honestly you shouldn't be doing this in the first place. Just be respectful to each other.
     
  • Things that are usual forum "nonos" like bumping a thread or "necroing" an old post. We are not going to go as crazy actioning these types of things. That doesn't mean we won't just delete them with no notice. Again, don't do them, because if you are being disruptive, it can still lead to actions being taken against your account.
     
  • Posts that are often reported for trolling. These types of posts are not always the most constructive or involve direct feedback, but as long as they remain harmless and in good spirits we will err on the side of leaving them be.

Where we will continue to be very strict:

 

  • Any type of post or thread that is political or religious and this also includes analogies of the same type. I know some folks will not understand why we have this rule in place. The problem is that when you make a comparison which is religious or political in nature, it almost always derails that discussion into a religious or political one, which is something that just serves no purpose here. So please stay away from these types of posts as they will continue to be removed and will almost always include a warning or infraction.
     
  • Threads and responses that are vulgar or sexual in nature.
     
  • Threads where the only subject is another game or is very off-topic. At the end of the day this is still a STAR WARS: The Old Republic forum and so all threads should revolve around our game.
     
  • Callouts of any kind are strictly not permitted. This includes calling out specific players and guilds. To get one step further, even posts that appear to have good intent ("List of known ninja looters!") are still in violation of this rule and are not permitted. We want everyone to feel that the forums are a safe place for them and this type of post only serves to harass other players.
     
  • Intentionally posting false information in the hopes of "stirring up" the community. If it is very clear you have made a post with the intent of lying about facts in order to create disorder, your post will be removed and you will be actioned for it. This type of behavior only serves to incite negative reactions from our forum users.
     
  • Discussion of moderation is still not allowed.
     

New Infraction/Warning Structure

 

With our new policies in place on *what* we will action against, we are also making similar changes to our warning and infraction system. Although we are giving you a bit more freedom in what you can say, if you continually cross those lines you will be actioned appropriately.

 

In most cases, your first violation will net you a warning. This warning will remind you of what you have done and will act as a friendly reminder to avoid this type of behavior. (For severe violations, a user may skip receiving a warning and go right to an infraction.)

 

After you have received a warning, if you do something else which violates our forum rules, you will receive an infraction. All infractions are now worth 5 points each and suspensions will work as follows:

 

5 points - 3 day suspension

10 points - 7 day suspension

15 points - Permanent ban

 

TLDR: We want to provide the opportunity for all of you to be able to express your opinions, even disagreements, in a way that does not have you in fear of being reprimanded. However, even with this leeway we will not tolerate players making hurtful statements, harassing, or directly attacking each other in a way that is not constructive.

 

One thing I need to make very clear is that even with this change in forum rules, this does not change any warnings or infractions that you received previously. All of those will still stand and will not be reversed based on the new rules.

I hope that all of this makes sense as I tried to spell it out as clearly as I could.

 

-eric and the Community Team

Edited by EricMusco
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 141
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

After you have received a warning, if you do something else which violates our forum rules, you will receive an infraction. All infractions are now worth 5 points each and suspensions will work as follows:

 

5 points - 3 day suspension

10 points - 7 day suspension

15 points - Permanent ban

Just to be clear, a single infraction will result in a suspension?

Edited to add: Do warnings have a time limit in which they expire?

Edited by iamthehoyden
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Dev Post
Just to be clear, a single infraction will result in a suspension?

Edited to add: Do warnings have a time limit in which they expire?

 

Yes, a single infraction will result in a 3 day suspension. However to reiterate, unless it is a severe violation, you will always receive a warning before receiving an infraction.

 

Warnings do not have a time limit/expire but this doesn't mean you couldn't receive more than one warning before getting an infraction.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, a single infraction will result in a 3 day suspension. However to reiterate, unless it is a severe violation, you will always receive a warning before receiving an infraction.

 

Warnings do not have a time limit/expire but this doesn't mean you couldn't receive more than one warning before getting an infraction.

I see. Well, I'll just have to hope for the best then if I make a mistake or two. Thanks for the clarification.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd just like to note that I do necro threads somewhat rarely (but I make sure that it's constructive and relevant), and those that say "Can I have your stuff?" are really just trying to be funny I guess. I hope you guys are somewhat more lenient on things the previous Community mods weren't able to be lenient on. I swear, it was impossible to make near-bashful remarks. Not that they're bad, but as long as they don't seem to be getting a rise out of anyone (like, getting any persons mad) then leave them be. Some near-bashful threads/posts can be constructive at times.

 

Also—one question. Any previous infractions placed on anyone's account can't message for it to be reversed for any reason whatsoever? :eek:

Edited by HomicidalWhales
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Dev Post
I'd just like to note that I do necro threads somewhat rarely (but I make sure that it's constructive and relevant), and those that say "Can I have your stuff?" are really just trying to be funny I guess. I hope you guys are somewhat more lenient on things the previous Community mods weren't able to be lenient on. I swear, it was impossible to make near-bashful remarks. Not that they're bad, but as long as they don't seem to be getting a rise out of anyone (like, getting any persons mad) then leave them be. Some near-bashful threads/posts can be constructive at times.

 

Also—one question. Any previous infractions placed on anyone's account can't message for it to be reversed for any reason whatsoever? :eek:

 

I guess the short answer here is that if you have already attempted to dispute and if the dispute was denied then yes, the infraction will stand. We are looking to change the rules moving forward and not looking behind.

 

On thread necro: What if the thread is being necro'd because the topic is relevant and creating another thread for it is redundant?

 

Necroing is totally fine, especially when it is relevant.

Edited by EricMusco
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess the short answer here is that if you have already attempted to dispute and if the dispute was denied then yes, the infraction will stand. We are looking to change the rules moving forward and not looking behind.

 

 

 

Necroing is totally fine, especially when it is relevant.

Thank you for the reply, Eric! So helpful, you always are. :csw_yoda:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So long as you don't ban Sir Copperfield, I'm fine with the new rules. (He is one of the few funny thing I see on the site. :D)

Yes! His posts may entice trolling, but it really isn't attacking anyone or pitting any community members against each other. +1 for Sir Copperfield! :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I guess the short answer here is that if you have already attempted to dispute and if the dispute was denied then yes, the infraction will stand. We are looking to change the rules moving forward and not looking behind.

 

Infractions shouldn't have a "never" expiration to it, because that is simply ridiculous and it should be changed. Some of us are on the forums more often then others and there are those folks out there that will report a post just to be a ***** if someone says something they don't like.

 

Your three strike rule can easily be abused by people claiming to be "offended" by something when they're really not.

 

I hope you make the more appropriate decision here.

 

(On a side note: I'm not talking about infractions that are blatantly deserved. IE people racially // sexually harassing someone. I'm talking about infractions that have to do with trying to get a point across and you (the moderator) didn't appreciate it because it's negative feedback towards the development teams decisions. Instead, that feedback should be used as a wake up call. Many players here want this game to succeed and make a gigantic turn around, but if it's viewed that anything negative is just earning someone an infraction... this will not keep the paying subs here.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Dev Post
Infractions shouldn't have a "never" expiration to it, because that is simply ridiculous and it should be changed. Some of us are on the forums more often then others and there are those folks out there that will report a post just to be a ***** if someone says something they don't like.

 

Your three strike rule can easily be abused by people claiming to be "offended" by something when they're really not.

 

I hope you make the more appropriate decision here.

 

(On a side note: I'm not talking about infractions that are blatantly deserved. IE people racially // sexually harassing someone. I'm talking about infractions that have to do with trying to get a point across and you (the moderator) didn't appreciate it because it's negative feedback towards the development teams decisions. Instead, that feedback should be used as a wake up call. Many players here want this game to succeed and make a gigantic turn around, but if it's viewed that anything negative is just earning someone an infraction... this will not keep the paying subs here.)

 

Your concern over people claiming to be "offended" by something when they're not is something I wanted to touch on. Just because someone reports a post by no stretch means they are automatically warned or infracted. You would be surprised by the volume of posts that are reported that we "no action" as something which did not break any rules.

 

Also, there will not be a time where we simply warn or infract someone because they spoke negatively of our game or a developer as long as that remains constructive. This forum is a place for discussion, and that discussion will of course include things that are negative.

 

What we will not allow, and we will continue to action, is personal attacks against developers, but this rule is no different than anything else as we do not allow that kind of behavior between forum users. You are allowed to be negative as long as you remain respectful and we absolutely will use that feedback to pass on to our development team!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do these rules not apply to the german forums, or is there any specific reason, why these rules are only available in english and not even linked in the german forums ?

 

The board rules posted over there, are dated from Nov. 2011.

 

I am just asking, as many german players were expecting that the german and french parts of the forums would turn into a lawless territory, with the two community managers gone.

 

But if you change the rules, you might want to at least tell the whole community about it.

 

(Or maybe I am to fast, and the text is currently being translated ?)

Edited by JPryde
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your concern over people claiming to be "offended" by something when they're not is something I wanted to touch on. Just because someone reports a post by no stretch means they are automatically warned or infracted. You would be surprised by the volume of posts that are reported that we "no action" as something which did not break any rules.

 

Also, there will not be a time where we simply warn or infract someone because they spoke negatively of our game or a developer as long as that remains constructive. This forum is a place for discussion, and that discussion will of course include things that are negative.

 

What we will not allow, and we will continue to action, is personal attacks against developers, but this rule is no different than anything else as we do not allow that kind of behavior between forum users. You are allowed to be negative as long as you remain respectful and we absolutely will use that feedback to pass on to our development team!

 

Actually, you did, several times. A former player of the game, a friend of mine, spoke out against changes you made, and he was infracted for speaking opinion, which was by no means offensive or an attack on the developers. He was given no justification for it other than he was infracted for speaking negatively of the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, you did, several times. A former player of the game, a friend of mine, spoke out against changes you made, and he was infracted for speaking opinion, which was by no means offensive or an attack on the developers. He was given no justification for it other than he was infracted for speaking negatively of the game.

Do you still communicate with your friend? He can email support at CommunitySupport@swtor.com. He can get in contact with Eric there, as he's the new Community Manager, and they can discuss what happened and what went wrong.

 

If this incidence happened a while back, it was probably Allison or Joveth who kept placing infractions on your friend. They're now long gone, so solving this with Eric is your friend's best bet. And seeing that you didn't say that he didn't appeal this before, it may give Eric good reason to help your buddy out.

 

Good luck. :)

Edited by HomicidalWhales
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your concern over people claiming to be "offended" by something when they're not is something I wanted to touch on. Just because someone reports a post by no stretch means they are automatically warned or infracted. You would be surprised by the volume of posts that are reported that we "no action" as something which did not break any rules.

 

Having been on the forum from the beginning and being a heavy poster over most of that time... I can in fact say that there have been times where there was pretty clear inconsistency in forum moderation as it pertains to actioning. By this I mean that fairly benign or unintended offense in content in a thread post would be warned or infracted, where in the same thread clearly worse, sometimes significantly worse, content would be left unaddressed even when reported, and sometimes multiple times by the same forum member and multiple reports being done.

 

I understand that there is always a degree of subjectivity involved in forum moderation, and at the end of the day you and your staff make the final call. And in my personal experience the forum staff have always been very fair and professional in addressing appeals. But there have been consistency issues in the past. Some of this is probably simply a result of all the changes in staff, tightening of rules over time, the general nature of the forum membership, phase of the moon probably even gets a few swings into it, etc. But I just wanted to highlight that we as a community have gone through flucutations in consistency on the part of how forum rules have been enforced over the last year, with fairness and clarity being an ongoing issue from my perspective.

 

That said... I personally like the direction you are taking communications and forum management and I do have confidence in what you are endeavoring to do. So props to you and your team for your efforts! :)

Edited by Andryah
Link to comment
Share on other sites

All infractions are now worth 5 points each and suspensions will work as follows:

 

5 points - 3 day suspension

10 points - 7 day suspension

15 points - Permanent ban

 

One comment here....

 

The point scales have changed over time, and points used to expire in many cases (except for a really nasty infraction). So there are forum members with "odd" scores on their accounts compared to the point system you listed above (which I think has been in effect for sometime now... just the penalties are different).

 

Example: 3 points (with never expire on them). From the earlier days when you had different point scales and different rules on expirations of infractions.

 

Not sure how (or if) you intend to address this... but I wanted to point it out... as it does not fit well with your 5/10/15 thresholds and it's bound to trigger some issues for you in the future. Or, maybe not. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Moderators are human and are not immune to making mistakes, or acting based on emotion, though good ones try very hard not to, it is just inevitable at some point. I've been a moderator/admin on some large fansites (for free, not paid positions ;)) and I can tell you it is a very frustrating and draining job to do. There are always groups of people that are completely sure that you're taking sides/being hypocritical with one side while the other feels exactly the same way.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I probably should be taking notes in this thread, as I am guilty more times than not of said behavior.

 

However, for those who do not know me, I am simply not "ultra seriousing you" in replies. :D

 

My day job allows for much time to "play" on the forums, and sometimes when I see /facepalm posts, well it gets the better of me at times lol.

 

That said, I think the current Community Relations manager has made more of an impact than any other CM previously. Sometimes, just by posting in threads and interacting with the community, tends to create a positive rapport with the community (which I think Eric wants to do).

 

Anyhoo, thanks Eric for laying it out, appreciated.

 

;)

Edited by Pistols-GS
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do wonder if the strict enforcement of these rules will affect accounts. Like if we get banned on forums will we be able to use cartel market or change subscription etc without trouble? Will we be blocked from being able to server transfer in the future etc?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I do wonder if the strict enforcement of these rules will affect accounts. Like if we get banned on forums will we be able to use cartel market or change subscription etc without trouble? Will we be blocked from being able to server transfer in the future etc?

No. None of that stuff or anything related will not be blocked. Only forum posting and PMs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Actually, you did, several times. A former player of the game, a friend of mine, spoke out against changes you made, and he was infracted for speaking opinion, which was by no means offensive or an attack on the developers. He was given no justification for it other than he was infracted for speaking negatively of the game.

 

I agree, I've had several warnings for posting simple questions to the dev team which they clearly didn't want asked, so my confidence is not high

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey everyone,

 

As I am sure many of you have noticed, it has been the Community Team's goal to try a new direction in communication. We are aiming to speak with you more, in a more casual way, and with more information.

 

Some of you may have then wondered "what does this new approach mean for forum rules?" Actually, maybe none of you were asking that, but I am going to answer it anyway. The reason? Because that is going to change a bit as well.

 

Before I explain specifics I want to stress what our goals are for these forums. The forums are meant to be a place where people can come, express their opinions and have constructive discussions without fear of attack or harassment. Please always keep this in mind! Let's talk details:

 

Where we will be more lenient:

 

  • General "internet" style chatter. In the past we have been pretty harsh about some things, such as calling someone a "troll" or throwing out a "can I have your stuff?". We would remove these types of posts and they could possibly incur a warning or an infraction. In general, we are going to let this slide a bit more, but honestly you shouldn't be doing this in the first place. Just be respectful to each other.
     
  • Things that are usual forum "nonos" like bumping a thread or "necroing" an old post. We are not going to go as crazy actioning these types of things. That doesn't mean we won't just delete them with no notice. Again, don't do them, because if you are being disruptive, it can still lead to actions being taken against your account.
     
  • Posts that are often reported for trolling. These types of posts are not always the most constructive or involve direct feedback, but as long as they remain harmless and in good spirits we will err on the side of leaving them be.

Where we will continue to be very strict:

 

  • Any type of post or thread that is political or religious and this also includes analogies of the same type. I know some folks will not understand why we have this rule in place. The problem is that when you make a comparison which is religious or political in nature, it almost always derails that discussion into a religious or political one, which is something that just serves no purpose here. So please stay away from these types of posts as they will continue to be removed and will almost always include a warning or infraction.
     
  • Threads and responses that are vulgar or sexual in nature.
     
  • Threads where the only subject is another game or is very off-topic. At the end of the day this is still a STAR WARS: The Old Republic forum and so all threads should revolve around our game.
     
  • Callouts of any kind are strictly not permitted. This includes calling out specific players and guilds. To get one step further, even posts that appear to have good intent ("List of known ninja looters!") are still in violation of this rule and are not permitted. We want everyone to feel that the forums are a safe place for them and this type of post only serves to harass other players.
     
  • Intentionally posting false information in the hopes of "stirring up" the community. If it is very clear you have made a post with the intent of lying about facts in order to create disorder, your post will be removed and you will be actioned for it. This type of behavior only serves to incite negative reactions from our forum users.
     
  • Discussion of moderation is still not allowed.
     

New Infraction/Warning Structure

 

With our new policies in place on *what* we will action against, we are also making similar changes to our warning and infraction system. Although we are giving you a bit more freedom in what you can say, if you continually cross those lines you will be actioned appropriately.

 

In most cases, your first violation will net you a warning. This warning will remind you of what you have done and will act as a friendly reminder to avoid this type of behavior. (For severe violations, a user may skip receiving a warning and go right to an infraction.)

 

After you have received a warning, if you do something else which violates our forum rules, you will receive an infraction. All infractions are now worth 5 points each and suspensions will work as follows:

 

5 points - 3 day suspension

10 points - 7 day suspension

15 points - Permanent ban

 

TLDR: We want to provide the opportunity for all of you to be able to express your opinions, even disagreements, in a way that does not have you in fear of being reprimanded. However, even with this leeway we will not tolerate players making hurtful statements, harassing, or directly attacking each other in a way that is not constructive.

 

One thing I need to make very clear is that even with this change in forum rules, this does not change any warnings or infractions that you received previously. All of those will still stand and will not be reversed based on the new rules.

I hope that all of this makes sense as I tried to spell it out as clearly as I could.

 

-eric and the Community Team

 

As this is a discussion of moderation, may we assume you will be perma banning yourself at this point :rak_02:

 

Other than that, as long as there is some consistency and a method of appeal I cannot see a problem. Oh unless any negative postings about EA/BW or the game will be counted under the "scare story" clause.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As someone who has been warned a fair few times I find some of this reasonable.

Sometimes though I got a warning and I dont agree with it.

 

My last warning involved a phrase quite often used. Yes it contained profanity but I thought the profanity filter would take care of that (in hindsight I can see why it doesnt)

Now this gave me a warning, my question is this: all my warnings Ive yet so far received are either a) lost in cybertranslation (sometimes the things I say sound very different in my head) b) naming/shaming or c) being "rude"

How well can I defend myself? Ive send several emails so far regarding a few of my warnings since I didnt agree or would like to address another issue regarding the warning but I didnt get a reply.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...