SW_display_name Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Was going to put this in New Players, but since it's so group-PvE-performance oriented I figured the Raids & Dungeons crowd would be a better match. So, I really like Color Crystals. I like crafting them. I like Collecting them. They are the rare Pokémon of my SWTOR experience — elusive, expensive, but so satisfying to capture the ones you're missing. I used to try to get 1 of each type of Collectible crystal, but lately I've been wondering if there's really a point. Basically — if you have a Hawkeye collected, is there any reason to buy Indestructible or Eviscerating? My thoughts are: Power is always better for HealersPower is always better for DPSAs a Tank it really doesn't matter if you have +/- 41 Endurance since raw Health isn't effective for Tanking the way Power/Crit are for Heals/DPS; ie, -41 Power means a lot more to Heals than -41 End +41 Power to a Tank, because excessive End is basically ~totally useless for Heals/DPS in PvE while extra Power is still beneficial when tanking (bigger defensive effects if applicable + more Threat + more DPS). So I'm thinking of just ditching the Crit and End crystals and focusing on only collecting Hawkeyes. But SWTOR's stat system surprises me sometimes (like how punishing it turned out to be, to wear a full Tank set while DPSing). I guess to summarize, my 2 questions are: Is it 'okay' for a Tank to run with a Hawkeye crystal?Is there ever any reason to use a Crit crystal instead of a Power crystal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THoK-Zeus Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Answers: - Don't take Hawkeye Crystals as a tank. It's generally not okay. - If you don't have enough crit rating (some classes optimally have ~500 crit rating on their gear), a crit crystal is an easy way to get crit rating Edited May 2, 2014 by THoK-Zeus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RikuvonDrake Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) To elaborate a bit regarding crit for DPS, some speccs does benefit from a little crit rating in their gear and instead of using a mod slot, which would give you a total of 75 crit which is too much,, you can use one color crystal which gives you 41. For example, I enjoy playing hybrid slinger/sniper, combat sentinel and there you benefit from a bit of crit and to find the perfect balance you can use color crystals to find that. Edited May 2, 2014 by RikuvonDrake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moradeth Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Answers: - Don't take Hawkeye Crystals as a tank. It's generally not okay. I dunno... it's starting to lean that way for Juggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Interesting question. I have some +power and +endurance crystals unlocked in my collections. I always use +power on my tanks (on my third at the moment) until they reach 55, then switch to +endurance. With taunt fluffing, I don't have problems holding threat, so it's not like I need +power for that. And if we're hitting enrage, it's not because my dps as a tank wasn't enough. So I guess I'd rather go for the endurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AAAAzrael Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) I dunno... it's starting to lean that way for Juggs I use power on my guardian ALT (cleared 4/5 NiM DF) and endurance on my shadow. Guardian threat is worse plus I'm far worse at playing guardian so every little bit more helps plus it improves mitigation. With health pool over 40k I'm not too bothered to get more. Edited May 2, 2014 by AAAAzrael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leafy_Bug Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Answers: - Don't take Hawkeye Crystals as a tank. It's generally not okay. - If you don't have enough crit rating (some classes optimally have ~500 crit rating on their gear), a crit crystal is an easy way to get crit rating Blashphemy! I need my saber crystal to match my outfit of course I will use Hawkeye, all my other classes use it!!! Many swags on white crystals ./shoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loc_n_lol Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 (edited) A tank's main stat is ego, and ego is directly proportional to the size of your HP bar. The more important-looking your tank is, the better they are at their job. True facts. Edited May 3, 2014 by Loc_n_lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) The more important-looking your tank is, the better they are at their job. This is why I picked body type 1 for my main tank -- he's compensating for something ... Edited May 4, 2014 by Khevar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnAskham Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) Usually Hawkeye are the most expensive, and it isn't a bad stat to use for any character so getting these first is a no brainer. And while the others aren't free, you can usually find them for pretty cheap (compared to Hawkeye) and simply pick them up over time. Either way, I not sure even in NiM progression it would really matter that much if you used all Hawkeye on every character, and it certainly won't matter in all other content. Your question does beg two other questions though: Why not remove stats / level requirements from color crystals as originally proposed and let players simply pick the color they want without them worrying about stats or level requirements? Are secondary stats ever going to be re-balanced so min / maxing isn't just 'cap accuracy, stack power' and requires some bit of thought, theory-crafting, and game testing to find the optimal mix? Edited May 4, 2014 by DawnAskham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW_display_name Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) Thanks guys. I'm not really sure what the answer is since almost every reply said different things, and I think a couple were making fun of me, but uh... TY for replying. I guess my reasoning with +Power is that I don't feel like 41 Endurance either way makes any difference when I'm Tanking... I also choose the Lower Endurance / Higher Stat mods for my Tank sets. Am I just undervaluing Endurance? Your question does beg two other questions though: Why not remove stats / level requirements from color crystals as originally proposed and let players simply pick the color they want without them worrying about stats or level requirements? Are secondary stats ever going to be re-balanced so min / maxing isn't just 'cap accuracy, stack power' and requires some bit of thought, theory-crafting, and game testing to find the optimal mix?Oh gosh, but if they make Color Crystals statless they might also make them consumables like Dye. Don't give them ideas! (otherwise I agree ) And I would actually like to see more variety in Crystal stats. It would be much more interesting as Tank for example, to choose between +41 Power and +41 Defense or Absorb. Likewise, to choose among +41 Accuracy, +41 Surge, or even +41 Presence (ah, Presence... the cheapest Crystal). Edited May 4, 2014 by SW_display_name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelefantos Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Well, the +41 Crystals are at a level from launch. Their rating is 136, current armor goes up to 180!!!, so I think it's about time they add new ones. For example some with Endurance and Defense for tanks. Now, are you under-rating Endurance? Maybe a bit. A tank with 42k HP and no mitigation isn't great. A tank with 30k HP and high mitigation could get in trouble on certain boss mechanics, some of them are spiky. It's all about the balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW_display_name Posted May 4, 2014 Author Share Posted May 4, 2014 I guess that makes sense. +41 End may not be 'great' but it's still making you 'Tankier' than +41 Power, right? Something > nothing. This goes back to me wishing the Crystals had more variety, like more interesting defensive stats than bland Health. And this also (as a derailment) makes me wonder what happens to all our expensive +41 Cartel crystals if they update Artifice to craft higher-rated Crystals, or introduce new stat combinations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainot-keel Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 A crit crystal maybe useful when you want to make a "clean" trade between power and crit, without touching another stat, like it could happen when you swap an enhancement or ear/implant. True, for heals/dps is a lot more common using power crystals but still having the option available is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCaliban Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 This is why I picked body type 1 for my main tank -- he's compensating for something ... This is why I only tank on my commando. She's compensating for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TACeMossie Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 As some people have said before, Crit Crystals are sometimes useful in DPS specs when you have to choose between extra crit or extra power. I even coded an optimizer for Vanguard Assault that tells me how much crit I need and what pieces to make crit for the best average, and for Dread Forged gear I need 1 crit crystal, and Dread Masters gear I needed 2. As such, the use for crit crystals are for when you need exact crit ratings, as sometimes you can get there more easily by using a crit crystal than trying to juggle mods/enhancements/earpieces/implants, and you dont have to augment either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ItachiZaku Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Endo for my shadow tank, but.... it's cuz I didn't want to spend the 30 mill for a white power crystal, the 750K for a white endo suited me just fine. But... I'd have gone with endo anyways, I have some cool enough L10 +41P crystals as is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlrikFassbauer Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 (edited) All of my Lowbies get that +41 health crystal I once luckily got through a Cartel Pack long, long ago (in a galaxy far, far away) of course ! Edited May 6, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCaliban Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Because the hawkeye crystal in the color you want is too damn expensive. >.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khevar Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Because the hawkeye crystal in the color you want is too damn expensive. >.< Ha! So true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morfius Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Well, the +41 Crystals are at a level from launch. Their rating is 136, current armor goes up to 180!!!, so I think it's about time they add new ones. For example some with Endurance and Defense for tanks. Now, are you under-rating Endurance? Maybe a bit. A tank with 42k HP and no mitigation isn't great. A tank with 30k HP and high mitigation could get in trouble on certain boss mechanics, some of them are spiky. It's all about the balance. So all those payed real money for current CM crystals going to get one big - screw you, pay again for new ones? Don't see how it is going to happen, even those +41 on level 10 was too much of P2W, new ones (180 rating) will make this worst. Same reason they most probably not going to drop stats from crystals also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marstrike Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 So all those payed real money for current CM crystals going to get one big - screw you, pay again for new ones? Don't see how it is going to happen, even those +41 on level 10 was too much of P2W, new ones (180 rating) will make this worst. Same reason they most probably not going to drop stats from crystals also. I have a funny feeling the next level of crystals will drop with the "main" expansion end of this year. Probably level 60 which will help compensate with the new 4k DPS benchmark. They will probably be available from the CM and CM packs at level 10. I wouldn't call it P2W myself but i can understand why people might see it that way. Anyway like people pointed out they are always good to get for alts and personally i'm glad they are available in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnAskham Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 I guess that makes sense. +41 End may not be 'great' but it's still making you 'Tankier' than +41 Power, right? Something > nothing. This goes back to me wishing the Crystals had more variety, like more interesting defensive stats than bland Health. And this also (as a derailment) makes me wonder what happens to all our expensive +41 Cartel crystals if they update Artifice to craft higher-rated Crystals, or introduce new stat combinations. Back sometime in the 1.x patch cycles, they did a post stating tying stats to color cyrstals was a mistake and if they had the chance to design it over again, color crystals would not have stats. There was some back and forth about removing stats from existing crystals, with the last post I recall stating they just wouldn't increase the stats in future content and that over time the stats remaining would become mostly irrelevant. Looking back through all the gear increases for the last several 1.x patch cycles after the post, and all the 2.x patch cycles, they have kept to their statement of not increasing the stat levels on color crystals. So I wouldn't expect to see new higher stat color crystals, but since they rarely go back and clean up fully when they change their minds, I don't expect them to remove stats for existing crystals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marstrike Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Back sometime in the 1.x patch cycles, they did a post stating tying stats to color cyrstals was a mistake and if they had the chance to design it over again, color crystals would not have stats. There was some back and forth about removing stats from existing crystals, with the last post I recall stating they just wouldn't increase the stats in future content and that over time the stats remaining would become mostly irrelevant. Looking back through all the gear increases for the last several 1.x patch cycles after the post, and all the 2.x patch cycles, they have kept to their statement of not increasing the stat levels on color crystals. So I wouldn't expect to see new higher stat color crystals, but since they rarely go back and clean up fully when they change their minds, I don't expect them to remove stats for existing crystals. I do actually remember this now but i wonder if that statement would still stand. Surely with the RNG involved in packs and the ever present possibility of people buying multiple packs for that "one special item" they may actually go back on that statement. Like pointed out throughout the thread, some crystals are more sought out than others so from EAware's point of view they can make money from that. Maybe not, and lets hope i didn't give them any ideas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jade_de_aguilera Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 A tank's main stat is ego :D:D I use end crystals on tank, you get enough power from all this secondary stats augments. Secondary stat augments is to be used, couse ego augments are not available atm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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