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Getting forced into Romance: Sorta spoiler


Cartumandua

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It's not an unreasonable comparison. And the fact of the matter is that it's a subject that deserves to be treated seriously. There are many people who would be extremely upset at such a situation because of personal experiences.

 

It is a very unreasonable comparison.

 

For one, you picked the options to get there, you may not have meant to pick those options, but you did. The game only has a linear path to follow.

 

So to the game it checks the lines "Did they say yes? Yup! Go here." "Did they continue to say yes? Yup! go here!"

 

You may have accidently been picking the "Yes" lines, but you were picking them, and so your character very much was saying "yes"

 

I'd say it's much more akin to saying yes to someone and waking up the next day and wondering why you let it get that far.

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It's not an unreasonable comparison. And the fact of the matter is that it's a subject that deserves to be treated seriously. There are many people who would be extremely upset at such a situation because of personal experiences.

 

Considering how it plays out (the player and by extension the character are not interested in the companion in that way) it would most definitely be a trigger for some people, hence my comparison. But, hey, I changed it for the less controversial "unwilling participant in this sexual activity" alternative anyway, largely because I don't want to get into another "conversation" wherein someone decides it's time to talk down to me. Yay.

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It is a very unreasonable comparison.

 

For one, you picked the options to get there, you may not have meant to pick those options, but you did. The game only has a linear path to follow.

 

So to the game it checks the lines "Did they say yes? Yup! Go here." "Did they continue to say yes? Yup! go here!"

 

You may have accidently been picking the "Yes" lines, but you were picking them, and so your character very much was saying "yes"

 

I'd say it's much more akin to saying yes to someone and waking up the next day and wondering why you let it get that far.

 

So...if you act inviting early in the evening, you're asking for anything, and I mean anything, that may happen thereafter. You're the one choosing to send signals; there's an obvious conclusion. When you actually get near the ftb and find that there's a checkpoint where you cannot say no, it's entirely your fault for putting yourself in that position and you've got no one to blame but yourself.

 

That reasoning is unacceptable in real life and I think it excuses nothing in game. "No" should always, always, always, always, always be a permitted answer.

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So...if you act inviting early in the evening, you're asking for anything, and I mean anything, that may happen thereafter. You're the one choosing to send signals; there's an obvious conclusion. When you actually get near the ftb and find that there's a checkpoint where you cannot say no, it's entirely your fault for putting yourself in that position and you've got no one to blame but yourself.

 

That reasoning is unacceptable in real life and I think it excuses nothing in game. "No" should always, always, always, always, always be a permitted answer.

 

Not to mention this situation can occur without having chosen any [Flirt] options, as demonstrated in Bright's linked thread (which is broken, by the way).

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It is a very unreasonable comparison.

 

For one, you picked the options to get there, you may not have meant to pick those options, but you did. The game only has a linear path to follow.

 

So to the game it checks the lines "Did they say yes? Yup! Go here." "Did they continue to say yes? Yup! go here!"

 

You may have accidently been picking the "Yes" lines, but you were picking them, and so your character very much was saying "yes"

 

I'd say it's much more akin to saying yes to someone and waking up the next day and wondering why you let it get that far.

I'll try to clarify what I meant. It's not intended, clearly. I don't think BW wanted their game to create a situation where a companion npc r*pes the player character or pushes them into a romance that was unwanted. In the hidden flirts situation, it's coded incorrectly - leading to people accidentally starting the romance in cases where they didn't intend to.

 

The designers also made some poor decisions in terms of no opt-out options. There's really no excuse for a lack of opt-out options with a ftb. That should NEVER happen.

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So...if you act inviting early in the evening, you're asking for anything, and I mean anything, that may happen thereafter. You're the one choosing to send signals; there's an obvious conclusion. When you actually get near the ftb and find that there's a checkpoint where you cannot say no, it's entirely your fault for putting yourself in that position and you've got no one to blame but yourself.

 

That reasoning is unacceptable in real life and I think it excuses nothing in game. "No" should always, always, always, always, always be a permitted answer.

 

No. What I'm saying is comparing a horrible real life experience to a game play mechanic that can only be started off by how you pick the chat options, is two completely different things.

 

The game goes "Do you want this storyline or not" You select yes or no. It then gives you the storyline. The game doesn't know if you've changed your mind. The game doesn't know if you misclicked and didn't press ESC in time to redo the whole scene.

 

The fact that something so terrible gets used as an example for a game that, like I said before, has a pretty much linear storyline, is sad on so many levels.

 

This isn't to say don't ask for chat options that allow you to back out if you change your mind, this isn't to say dont ask for the questions to be properly labeled *Flirt...will start off the romance storyline by selecting this option* but it's a terrible comparison.

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For those curious: This Youtube playlist shows all possible paths through Elara Dorne's ftb conversation, Personal Effects. It's a fairly simple conversation; all three options on the first wheel lead to the second wheel, all three options on the second wheel lead to a ftb, there are no choices after the ftb.

 

The relevant can't-say-no option comes up at 0:49 in the first, 0:42 in the second, 0:52 in the third. Note that the most discouraging response the player can give is "Uh...I'm not sure?" and that leads to the exact same result as the positive responses.

 

If you [Flirt]ed with her earlier, (though at least with her you must have explicitly [Flirt]ed), you cannot finish her conversation line and unlock legacy buffs without going through this.

 

I feel very strongly that the game should account for the player changing his or her mind, especially in light of the companions that drop horrific backstory or plot actions on you mid-line.

Corso, Quinn, and Ensign Temple

all gave me staggeringly unpalatable reveals immediately before Progressing The Romance Plot, or trying to. To progress a linear storyline that involves repeated sexual advances long after the player has asked to stop is...well, sick.

Edited by bright_ephemera
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You're deliberately ignoring the fact that someone can be put into this situation without choosing options to initiate the romance. As was explained in the thread that Bright linked.

 

But you always do that.

 

No I wasn't. I even mentioned it. I said "don't stop asking it to be fixed" But it's still the game going "You selected the I want this storyline option" It's very much different than the real life situation.

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For those curious: This Youtube playlist shows all possible paths through Elara Dorne's ftb conversation, Personal Effects. It's a fairly simple conversation; all three options on the first wheel lead to the second wheel, all three options on the second wheel lead to a ftb, there are no choices after the ftb.

 

The relevant can't-say-no option comes up at 0:49 in the first, 0:42 in the second, 0:52 in the third. Note that the most discouraging response the player can give is "Uh...I'm not sure?" and that leads to the exact same result as the positive responses.

 

If you [Flirt]ed with her earlier, (though at least with her you must have explicitly [Flirt]ed), you cannot finish her conversation line and unlock legacy buffs without going through this.

 

I feel very strongly that the game should account for the player changing his or her mind, especially in light of the companions that drop horrific backstory or plot actions on you mid-line.

Corso, Quinn, and Ensign Temple

all gave me staggeringly unpalatable reveals immediately before Progressing The Romance Plot, or trying to. To progress a linear storyline that involves repeated sexual advances long after the player has asked to stop is...well, sick.

 

Something else I've kept mentioning before. For TOR being the storyline mmo, it's no different than any other mmo, except each class has a storyline and not every character has the same storyline.

 

This isn't a choose your path storyline. It just gives the illusion of choice, and all end up in the same basic place, having gotten there basically the same way.

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No I wasn't. I even mentioned it. I said "don't stop asking it to be fixed" But it's still the game going "You selected the I want this storyline option" It's very much different than the real life situation.

The situations where there are no options other than ftb in a conversation are not acceptable. Not in the least. And that isn't a bug, that's a choice the designers made. My assumption is that they didn't realize the implications of it, but it does create a situation where the player character literally cannot say 'no.'

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The situations where there are no options other than ftb in a conversation are not acceptable. Not in the least. And that isn't a bug, that's a choice the designers made. My assumption is that they didn't realize the implications of it, but it does create a situation where the player character literally cannot say 'no.'

 

I'd still call that the linear storytelling of "You chose YES" from the start. Though thinking on it, can't one just press esc, and not run that storyline untill "I want to back out" becomes an option or just never run it?

 

Still think it's a terrible comparison.

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I'd still call that the linear storytelling of "You chose YES" from the start. Though thinking on it, can't one just press esc, and not run that storyline untill "I want to back out" becomes an option or just never run it?

 

Still think it's a terrible comparison.

That's your option to think it's a terrible comparison. I happen to think it is valid.

 

The idea that saying 'yes' early on negates any choice when it comes to sexual matters is unsupportable. End story. If you can't understand that...well...

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That's your option to think it's a terrible comparison. I happen to think it is valid.

 

The idea that saying 'yes' early on negates any choice when it comes to sexual matters is unsupportable. End story. If you can't understand that...well...

 

If you can't see the difference between a click yes or no option for a simple game storyline and real life tragedy...well...

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If you can't see the difference between a click yes or no option for a simple game storyline and real life tragedy...well...

The point is that there is enough similiarty in the two that it is a potentially serious trigger for someone who has had that real life tragedy to find something like that in game.

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That's probably one of the reasons for the fear of same-gender options. These bugs just create some truely awful situations. .

 

If I may back the conversation up a little, I'd like to address this. As far as being afraid to be 'forced into an SGR' I'd like to point out that Makeb will only have SGR options with NPCs. In order to get any romance progression or the possibility of a FtB with an NPC, you have specifically follow the [Flirt] options that are presented. Usually they are the second option on the conversation wheel. (Or first a lot in the case of Smuggler.)

 

If an NPC of the same sex flirts with your character, I'm very sure Bioware will have a "Uh... yeah, no thanks buddy" or a "That's real sweet sister, but no. Now, about my mission..." option. NPCs will not get around to a FtB if the [Flirt] options aren't chosen. I know early in my Smug quest I riled the crap out of Corso by flirting with another smuggler NPC. But in the conversation preceding the one that would seal the deal, I shut him down by choosing a non-flirt.

 

Another way to avoid seeing a same sex FtB in a non class setting is to level with a friend. Even flirts that have the option to go to FtB will not if there are two or more people in the group.

Such as Darth Lachris on Balmorra. Rather than FtB with a male who flirts with her at the end, she'll give him a kiss on the cheek and a farewell if there are more than one in the party.

 

 

As far as companions go, when SGRs are enabled for companions there absolutely needs to be a 'No' option for every romantic conversation. There should already be a way to tell Jorgan there will be no nookie on the Thunderclap. Nadia's little sister romance needs to have a 'I'm sorry, I got carried away, this can't happen" option for people who change their minds. This unfortunately means a bit of revoicing, but what better time than at an expansion when new voice is being added?

 

This post got long. Sorry.

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Link (the one to an earlier BW response on the topic) is fixed, Tatile, thanks for pointing that out.

 

The sad thing is that people still have to complain about an 8 month old issue. This is why so many have concerns about how BW desires to handle sgr. We have no proof that they have changed they're thought process about romance arc story lines and available opt outs. They certainly are not in any hurry to clarify for anyone either

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I feel very strongly that the game should account for the player changing his or her mind, especially in light of the companions that drop horrific backstory or plot actions on you mid-line.

Corso, Quinn, and Ensign Temple

all gave me staggeringly unpalatable reveals immediately before Progressing The Romance Plot, or trying to. To progress a linear storyline that involves repeated sexual advances long after the player has asked to stop is...well, sick.

 

 

So, even after Quinn betrays you, if you are already romancing hm, you totally forgive him and can't be like "Dude, I'm not killing you but you try to get in my bed, and I'll cut it off"? That's kinda lame. Makes me hate him even more, and wish killing him was an option like it was in beta. I seriously hate Quinn. and on m 100% light sider Sith Warrior I would have gladly taken a 10,000 point dark side hit just to kill him!!!! In fact, that's why usually I am doing a male and a female of each class (one being each AC) but warrior I'll be doing two males... my light side male romanced vette, my dark side male will go for Jaesa.)

 

Edited by AbsolutGrndZero
said "Gender" instead of "class"
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So, even after Quinn betrays you, if you are already romancing hm, you totally forgive him and can't be like "Dude, I'm not killing you but you try to get in my bed, and I'll cut it off"? That's kinda lame. Makes me hate him even more, and wish killing him was an option like it was in beta. I seriously hate Quinn. and on m 100% light sider Sith Warrior I would have gladly taken a 10,000 point dark side hit just to kill him!!!! In fact, that's why usually I am doing a male and a female of each class (one being each AC) but warrior I'll be doing two males... my light side male romanced vette, my dark side male will go for Jaesa.)

 

RE: Sith Warrior Act 3:

You can tell Quinn you're breaking up. He will still trigger future romance conversations. He tries to kill you, you say "Of course you can rejoin the crew but stay the hell out of my quarters," you both return to the ship and he'll turn around and profess his love (or whatever was due next on the romance conversation progression). When you finish the conversation line, even if you turn him down at the love and the sex and the marriage conversations, he will send you the "we're married" romance letters.

 

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Bugs like these make the male companions in this game look like the "Nice Guys" from OKCupid (and other dating sites).

 

I'm wondering if anyone's reported this as a bug through the in-game portal? Anything come of it?

I know I reported the Tharan bug (where he seems to think that you had a fling and all your conversation options also indicate that YOU think you had a fling but no fling was had). Response: "has been forwarded to the department, thank you...blah blah" Closed. I would be willing to bet that these other ones have been reported too.

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I know I reported the Tharan bug (where he seems to think that you had a fling and all your conversation options also indicate that YOU think you had a fling but no fling was had). Response: "has been forwarded to the department, thank you...blah blah" Closed. I would be willing to bet that these other ones have been reported too.

 

I reported it and some others did as well.

 

I'm not sure if it's fixed...I'm rerolling another Consular now but I don't plan on talking to Tharan tbh. That seems to be the only 'fix' for this atm (don't speak to them)...now that I've read this thread, I won't be talking to Jorgan when I roll a Trooper for sure, Legacy unlock be damned!!

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I reported it and some others did as well.

 

I'm not sure if it's fixed...I'm rerolling another Consular now but I don't plan on talking to Tharan tbh. That seems to be the only 'fix' for this atm (don't speak to them)...now that I've read this thread, I won't be talking to Jorgan when I roll a Trooper for sure, Legacy unlock be damned!!

Ah, don't do that, Jorgan's a cool guy :)

If you don't want the romance, just make sure that on any conversation where there's a Flirt option or that sounds flirty, pick the option that is clearly 'no.' Edited to add: The writers don't seem to get the whole 'letting someone down gently' thing, so cold rejection is what you need here.

Jorgan conversation spoilers:

From what I understand, the problem conversation is the one where he offers you a necklace he'd had made from a stone he'd been carrying around for years. It's incredibly sweet. Don't take the necklace, lol. The conversation options for that conversation are all screwed up. Goes something like this:

1. I love it

2. [Flirt] It's kinda girly.

3. That's not appropriate.

The "I love it" is an unofficial flirt. It seems that if you accept the necklace, that's the trigger for the romance. But seriously, talk to Jorgan, one of the better companions in the game, romance or not, IMO.

 

Edited by iamthehoyden
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My pure eternally celibate Knight managed to shake his sinful wench of an apprentice off fine enough. Rest of the game just assumes I didn't. Towards end of lord Scourge's storyline, he talks about my coming offspring. Dialogue wheel player gets is something along the lines of

 

/ I have humped many a lady

- I sure love humping them ladies

\ I cant wait to start humping them ladies

 

WHAT LADIES IM IN CELIBACY AAARGHH

Edited by Stradlin
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