Input and evidence are two different things. I didnt start this thread to debAte if they were broke i started it to get a bioware response So far everyone against my argument have provided second hand unverifiable opinions

 

Dos specs are worst in the game. After a 8k maul and 5 k discharge crit once in a blue moon yhat is again completely inconsisten. Even if t were consistent it still would t be comparable to other dps classes.

 

Once again ill ask just why you are against fixing sins when it in no way affects you? There has been a lot of evidence backing up my assertion and no arguments of merit or validity disputing me. Bring something more than second hanf opinions or a parse of your own and then i will take you seriously but if you expect o change my mind it will never happen due to my first hand experiences where you cant disprove something i wtiness myself

If your intent was to evoke a response from bioware you should have used the dev forum, not this one. I have read every post in this forum, and there is a lot of good discussion (mixed with a few unecessary personal shots) about this issue. I am still of the opinion that there are more cons with this tank class than cons in the other classes (and yes, I have them all at max level in 69/72+ gear, and know how to use them all). Healers have to work harder in this class than the other classes (and yes, I have all of the heals classes at max level in 69/72+ gear and I know how to use them all). With that being said, this class should be reviewed and/or modified. The spikes are very pronounced and aren't necessarily tied to big hit mechanics.

I think there has been a lot of first hand information shared in this forum....along with a lot of anecdotal information. Nevertheless, this forum is one of the best discussions I have seen regarding this issue.

Surely they already know its been brought up practically since launch i wss just hoping for acknowledgement. I thougt the devs read more than one

Why hasnt this been adressed its obviously the worst balance issue in the game uet they wont even acknowledge it depsite numerous parses

Hah these are my most recent characters. the older ones that were 50 I deleted a long time ago. But, it still doesn't detract from what I said each tank spec has a different tanking playstyle/ role. Even the mirrored classes for instance assassin/ shadow etc

You do know that you can send in a help ticket to restore deleted characters. BW has been very generous regarding these types of requests.

Multiple players have put up the numbers to show the spikes for Sin/Shadow tanks, so there's really no arguing that. If you're a Sin and you haven't taken a OHK out of nowhere you just aren't playing much. There are a number of threads on this and it is one of the main issues that the Sin representative was putting forward to BioWare. It is to the point that it caused that said representative to give this game the boot and move on to other things. The spikes are real and there needs to be a balance for it.

In response to the lack of DPS ability of Sin's the response from BioWare was that basically Sins should always be doing their damage coming out of stealth. This would be fine if it weren't for the fact that there is a pesky little cooldown on your only means of doing so once you've entered combat so for the majority of the fight you aren't doing jack.

Off on a tangent there but the fact is that Sins/Shadows need adjustments and I along with others who play them and play with them care a lot more about that than same-sex romances and blood red crystals.

Multiple players have put up the numbers to show the spikes for Sin/Shadow tanks, so there's really no arguing that. If you're a Sin and you haven't taken a OHK out of nowhere you just aren't playing much. There are a number of threads on this and it is one of the main issues that the Sin representative was putting forward to BioWare. It is to the point that it caused that said representative to give this game the boot and move on to other things. The spikes are real and there needs to be a balance for it.

 

In response to the lack of DPS ability of Sin's the response from BioWare was that basically Sins should always be doing their damage coming out of stealth. This would be fine if it weren't for the fact that there is a pesky little cooldown on your only means of doing so once you've entered combat so for the majority of the fight you aren't doing jack.

 

Off on a tangent there but the fact is that Sins/Shadows need adjustments and I along with others who play them and play with them care a lot more about that than same-sex romances and blood red crystals.

Yeah a whole one attack that is an opener that can be used once per fight and its supposed to be our main dps thats just proof tjey have no clue about their own game

When a group of Shadow / Assassin Tanks have flooded the Tanking forum with Caps Lock "NERF: Guardian Tanks" with the argument "Shadows are weak, Bioware is not listening to us, so Guardians are strong, nerf them for the sake of balance." and "We created this thread to take attention to our troubles, we actually don't want a guardian nerf" I criticized them for their wrongful approach to their problem which seemed and still seems coming from a childish behavior. We have exchanged our opinions but despite our differences of opinion with Kitru or Knives we agreed that shadows DO need some love to base armor bonus in exchange for an incremental hit in mitigation.

Andryah, I have respected you for a long time because you in many topics have approached "WE HATE EAWARE THIS GAME SUCKS IT IS DOOMED TO FAIL." topics with criticism within the boundaries of reason. I too have believed and still believe that SWTOR is a very good game that has excellent advantages that are often overlooked with problems that are overhyped by a self-entitled fanbase. But while I do not see myself as a refree on any sort of way in this discussion, the data, first hand experience in many hardcore raiding guilds that play NiM level ops far more often than you and I disagree with your reasoning here. I do understand what you are trying to say but discussion based on player skill or finesse as you point out cannot possibly help in an ability that hits 40k+ and your adrenals and mitigation skills are on cooldown or unable to assist with the problem. We have had the chance to form a 16 man Hard Mode group with a friendly group and the difference in terms of tank damage is staggering. Even simple hits from Terror From Beyond HM tentacles continously kept hitting our tank for 20k+ while same tentacles hit me for around 10k-14k interval. Yes, you are right these two classes are not meant to tank in the same manner or take the same amount of hit, certainly shadows have their own advantages of guardians. But the difference shouldn't be dramatic in this way. I can very easily with my 72 (with few 69) gear tank through the damage Operations chief does on hard mode and solo tank it while shadow demands a switch and runs the risk of being instagibbed if he's below 80%.

Of course there should be variety between tanks, they should play differently and experienced differently. But one should not have to worry about encounter luck when he will take no damage for 4 hits and suddenly take a dip to 10% in the next hit. Spikey too has it's limits. And this is HM. I can't imagine how NiM tanking is, I have only experienced Dash Roode and TWH and those are the easiest.

+1

 

We are raiding with 2 shadows NiM and thats absolutely perfect.

Kiting with speed, vanish at the right time, and other things you can avoid some essential mechanics. Thats what the shadow makes better then every other tankclass.

Let's not forget you can also stealth rez.

When a group of Shadow / Assassin Tanks have flooded the Tanking forum with Caps Lock "NERF: Guardian Tanks" with the argument "Shadows are weak, Bioware is not listening to us, so Guardians are strong, nerf them for the sake of balance." and "We created this thread to take attention to our troubles, we actually don't want a guardian nerf" I criticized them for their wrongful approach to their problem which seemed and still seems coming from a childish behavior. We have exchanged our opinions but despite our differences of opinion with Kitru or Knives we agreed that shadows DO need some love to base armor bonus in exchange for an incremental hit in mitigation.

 

Andryah, I have respected you for a long time because you in many topics have approached "WE HATE EAWARE THIS GAME SUCKS IT IS DOOMED TO FAIL." topics with criticism within the boundaries of reason. I too have believed and still believe that SWTOR is a very good game that has excellent advantages that are often overlooked with problems that are overhyped by a self-entitled fanbase. But while I do not see myself as a refree on any sort of way in this discussion, the data, first hand experience in many hardcore raiding guilds that play NiM level ops far more often than you and I disagree with your reasoning here. I do understand what you are trying to say but discussion based on player skill or finesse as you point out cannot possibly help in an ability that hits 40k+ and your adrenals and mitigation skills are on cooldown or unable to assist with the problem. We have had the chance to form a 16 man Hard Mode group with a friendly group and the difference in terms of tank damage is staggering. Even simple hits from Terror From Beyond HM tentacles continously kept hitting our tank for 20k+ while same tentacles hit me for around 10k-14k interval. Yes, you are right these two classes are not meant to tank in the same manner or take the same amount of hit, certainly shadows have their own advantages of guardians. But the difference shouldn't be dramatic in this way. I can very easily with my 72 (with few 69) gear tank through the damage Operations chief does on hard mode and solo tank it while shadow demands a switch and runs the risk of being instagibbed if he's below 80%.

 

Of course there should be variety between tanks, they should play differently and experienced differently. But one should not have to worry about encounter luck when he will take no damage for 4 hits and suddenly take a dip to 10% in the next hit. Spikey too has it's limits. And this is HM. I can't imagine how NiM tanking is, I have only experienced Dash Roode and TWH and those are the easiest.

IMO.. Guardian and Jugg tanks are a bit over the top right now.. and deserve to be toned down a bit. I'll exaggerate a bit for a moment to make my point.....when you can mail-in your keystrokes or be cooking dinner while tanking... an adjustment is in order. More accurately.. these tanks are playable at very low skill and awareness levels and still do well.. whereas sin/shadow tanks need to bring their A game on the tough encounters.

If you want to talk about making the strength based tanks a bit more then just showing up...I'm there with you (and I play one). That is an entirely different discussion though then "tankasins suck". And no.. I am not suggesting nerf batting any other class to death... so nobody bother going there.

See.. this is the problem when people call their class broken when comparing to another class. It imbalances the discussion as it presupposes the other class is golden and just your class sucks. It's a completely shallow one way analysis and it why players do not get to do the class balance.. only provide inputs and suggestions.

And just to be clear.. since I am often misrepresented on rebuttal..... I NEVER said that sins/shadows do not deserve some care and attention by the devs. I just do not agree that they suck and are broken. But you better be good if you play one.. and I'm OK with that because I do see it as the smart/skilled tank class in the game... it runs counter to "stand and soak damage" style tanking.

IMO.. Guardian and Jugg tanks are a bit over the top right now.. and deserve to be toned down a bit. I'll exaggerate a bit for a moment to make my point.....when you can mail-in your keystrokes or be cooking dinner while tanking... an adjustment is in order. More accurately.. these tanks are playable at very low skill and awareness levels and still do well.. whereas sin/shadow tanks need to bring their A game on the tough encounters.

 

If you want to talk about making the strength based tanks a bit more then just showing up...I'm there with you (and I play one). That is an entirely different discussion though then "tankasins suck". And no.. I am not suggesting nerf batting any other class to death... so nobody bother going there.

 

See.. this is the problem when people call their class broken when comparing to another class. It imbalances the discussion as it presupposes the other class is golden and just your class sucks.

 

And just to be clear.. since I am often misrepresented on rebuttal..... I NEVER said that sins/shadows do not deserve some care and attention by the devs. I just do not agree that they suck and are broken. But you better be good if you play one.. and I'm OK with that because I do see it as the smart/skilled tank class in the game... it runs counter to "stand and soak damage" style tanking.

Ok you make a good point actually but some of the wording you used in this discussion does not really represent your opinions in the manner that you suggest. You seem to think that the problems a lot of prospect and seasoned shadow tanks are facing at the entry to NiM raiding have to do with the level of your execution ability of the skills of your class. I too mostly ignore balance calls as people desperately trying to entitle their own classes to a higher standard than they are at the moment but I was quite frankly shocked at how frequent dying can be for a shadow tank in Hard Mode. At first I thought it as a healing slack issue since I am a tank I don't run through the numbers in Group panels as frequently as a healer does, but the reality is just that I as a guardian tank, so long as I'm properly geared am taking far , and I mean FAR less dramatic dips. Frankly if our shadow tank that's fully 72 gets 28k hits in Hard Mode, one can only worry about the problem in Nightmare Mode. (my server also has a few guilds doing nightmare weekly, while I do not have first hand experience I have a few friends who have stopped using their Shadow classes entirely due to constant heat from their own healers).

I agree with your opinion however that this issue is hyperinflated and overhyped. It is not that shadow tanks suck, but they are unreliable for nightmare mode tanking. Not saying it's not possible to play nightmare with them, but the sheer ability to being able to survive Nightmare Mode rests not on shadow tank's skill but his dedicated healer's. Otherwise we are having few to no troubles so long as we don't go 16 man or do NiM. (But right now being almost 72 NiM is our next natural progression route.)

IMO.. Guardian and Jugg tanks are a bit over the top right now.. and deserve to be toned down a bit. I'll exaggerate a bit for a moment to make my point.....when you can mail-in your keystrokes or be cooking dinner while tanking... an adjustment is in order. More accurately.. these tanks are playable at very low skill and awareness levels and still do well.. whereas sin/shadow tanks need to bring their A game on the tough encounters.

 

If you want to talk about making the strength based tanks a bit more then just showing up...I'm there with you (and I play one). That is an entirely different discussion though then "tankasins suck". And no.. I am not suggesting nerf batting any other class to death... so nobody bother going there.

 

See.. this is the problem when people call their class broken when comparing to another class. It imbalances the discussion as it presupposes the other class is golden and just your class sucks. It's a completely shallow one way analysis and it why players do not get to do the class balance.. only provide inputs and suggestions.

 

And just to be clear.. since I am often misrepresented on rebuttal..... I NEVER said that sins/shadows do not deserve some care and attention by the devs. I just do not agree that they suck and are broken. But you better be good if you play one.. and I'm OK with that because I do see it as the smart/skilled tank class in the game... it runs counter to "stand and soak damage" style tanking.

You're correct, the Sin/Shadow is not broken... in Story mode and hard mode. In Nightmare mode it is certainly broken and I've witnessed the numbers first hand. I also disagree that Juggs are easy to play. They are extremely underwhelming until they are geared properly. Do you ever PUG? Because that statement about low skill level is very inaccurate. Low skill level Juggs have mobs running all over the place attacking 5 different people. The Jugg does have a lot of tools to help them out in more situations, yes. But only a good player can exploit this. The sin played well can be a great tank IN SM and HM, but at this point is taking far too much damage in Nightmare to the point where we cant take our friend on raids. That's not right.

Tankasins DO NOT suck. They are epic. We get to stealth, use lightning and have a double-bladed lightsaber, but besides the aesthetics if you use overcharge saber and the other defensive barrier thing at the right time you will last very long. Even in pvp I almost always do really good as my tankasin. Also there is a skill tree thing for darkness that when you activate thrash(?)once again can't remember the name you get to use maul for 25 force from the front or back which gives us a ton of burst. Also wither is a great aoe attack. and if your getting beat in pvp just stealth, heal, maul, shock, wither, shock, lightning, etc and they are dead.

You are having perception problems.

Tankasins DO NOT suck. They are epic. We get to stealth, use lightning and have a double-bladed lightsaber, but besides the aesthetics if you use overcharge saber and the other defensive barrier thing at the right time you will last very long. Even in pvp I almost always do really good as my tankasin. Also there is a skill tree thing for darkness that when you activate thrash(?)once again can't remember the name you get to use maul for 25 force from the front or back which gives us a ton of burst. Also wither is a great aoe attack. and if your getting beat in pvp just stealth, heal, maul, shock, wither, shock, lightning, etc and they are dead.

I'm glad you like the class and find its play style appealing. However that has nothing to do with how well they perform.

You're correct, the Sin/Shadow is not broken... in Story mode and hard mode. In Nightmare mode it is certainly broken and I've witnessed the numbers first hand. I also disagree that Juggs are easy to play. They are extremely underwhelming until they are geared properly. Do you ever PUG? Because that statement about low skill level is very inaccurate. Low skill level Juggs have mobs running all over the place attacking 5 different people. The Jugg does have a lot of tools to help them out in more situations, yes. But only a good player can exploit this. The sin played well can be a great tank IN SM and HM, but at this point is taking far too much damage in Nightmare to the point where we cant take our friend on raids. That's not right.

PUGs are irrelevant to any discussion along these lines IMO. There is so much going on (or not going on) in team play in any given PUG as to make it sub-optimal and useless in any discussion about high end raid content in any objective sense. There are good PUGs, bad PUGs, super bad PUGs..and every variation between.

I don't play PUGs.. I play with players I know and trust. But in fairness.. If I did tank a PUG... I would not do it with a sin/shadow.. I'd do it with a Jugg/Guard because if the rest of the group is D grade in skills, gear, attention.. at least I have a chance with all the extra headroom (and as I said a bit over the top IMO) compared to another tank class unless the healer is also a tax write-off.

Heres your proof naysayers oh sins are fine. Read it and weep

07.25.2013 , 12:26 AM | #1

REPORT POST QUOTE

DPS Leaderboard 2.0+

By posting parses in the thread, you are stating that you have read the following rules:

Updated: 8/25/2013

Rules

1. Must be combat logged on the level 55 Operations Training Target MK-5.

2. Must be combat logged over at least a 5 minute duration. Endings may be cut out as long as the parse time remains over 5 minutes still. Beginning CANNOT be clipped: logs must state something like "Claimed enters combat." Actual logs may NOT be editted. Use Torparse's drop down tool to do so.

3. Class buffs/stims/adrenals are permitted.

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5. Nightmare Pilgrim buff is not permitted.

6. No use of Legacy abilities.

7. Only combat logs from http://www.torparse.com/ will be accepted. All claims must be accompanied by a link to their parse.

7. When posting please use the following format: Character Name-Class-Spec -DPS.

Example: Treehugger-Guardian-Focus 5/5/36-2000

9. Prestacking buffs using in-combat related moves is not allowed. However, buffs that can be replicated in an operations setting is permitted. For example, scoundrels respeccing from scrapper to dirty fighting to preload flachette round is permitted.

10. Two counterpart parses from the same person/account are not permitted. For example, I cannot have both my sniper and my gunslinger on the same top 5 leaderboard. Additionally, one person may not have multiple specs on the same leaderboard. You can however have two parses up from separate (advanced) classes.

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*Ensuring that all of these rules are followed can be difficult endeavor so please post with reasons if you have concerns about a claim's validity.

Parses with some discrepancies and/or more thorough checking will have an asterisk assigned to them.

Republic

Empire

Commando/Mercenary

1. Pizza'dah'hutt - Mercenary Arsenal - 6/36/4 - 3179.33

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/398227/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

AMR Profile: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...cyCompCount=20

2. Healingbot - Mercenary - Arsenal - 6/36/4 - 3078.65

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/382967/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

AMR Profile: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...b-bc8be2362b6c

3. Knopik - Mercenary - Arsenal - 6/36/4 3072.53

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/337341/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

4. Faddey - Mercenary - Arsenal 6/36/4 - 3034

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/318863/23/0/Damage+Dealt

5. Fascinate - Mercenary - Arsenal 6/36/4 - 2971.45

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/322669/tim...845/0/Overview

Guardian/Juggernaut

1. Loufucai - Juggernaut - Vengeance - 4/36/6 - 3039.94

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/378642/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

2. Vepres - Guardian - Vigilance - 4/36/6 - 3031

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/387853/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

AMR Profile: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...6-f066f2f39d5e

3. Kishekzun - Guardian - Vigilance - 4/36/6 - 3029.73

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/396443/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

AMR Profile: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...4-4c315d492289

4. Álec - Guardian - Vigilance - 4/36/6 - 2985.18

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/376436/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

5. Arrow's - Juggernaut - Vengeance - 4/36/6 - 2942.98

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/381734/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

AMR Profile:

Gunslinger/Sniper

1. Nithnuro - Sniper - Marksman 36/3/7 - 3265.68

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/365907/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

2. Evrydayimsmggln - Gunslinger - Hybrid 5/18/23 - 3238.05

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/362147/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

3. Tianna - Sniper - Marksman - 36/3/7 - 3229.16

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/379172/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

AMR Profile: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...2-47a2a7cea8eb

4. Red'october - Gunslinger - Hybrid 5/18/23 - 3207.38

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/377263/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

5. Alishee - Sniper - Marksman - 36/3/7 - 3192.26

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/393866/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

AMR Profile: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...6-4d7fd43c7223

Engineering/Saboteur

1. Claimed - Gunslinger - Saboteur 7/36/3 - 3629.42

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/333880/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

2. Aeralos - Gunslinger - Saboteur 7/36/3 - 3560.45

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/323863/tim...637/0/Overview

3. Carlenix - Sniper - Saboteur 5/36/5 - 3519.20

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/358651/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

4. Rhuarc - Gunslinger - Saboteur 7/36/3 - 3415

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/297089/tim...307/0/Overview

5. Fûsrodah - Gunslinger - Saboteur 5/36/5 3412.95

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/356383/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

Sage/Sorcerer

1. Handcuff - Sage - 3/36/7 Telekinetics - 3164.89

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/375362/tim...166/0/Overview

AMR Profile: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...c-6d1a97f52e67

2. Kindran - Sage - Balance - 5/5/36 - 3000.96

Log Link:http://www.torparse.com/a/385460/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

AMR Profile: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...d-34bb47e5abad

3. Lordbazuka - Sorcerer - Lightning - 2939

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/294514/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

4. Gardein - Sage - Telekinetics - 3/36/7 - 2888 POINT FIEF SEEX

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/395922/tim...084/0/Overview

AMR Profile: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...3-423c099af110

5. Milas - Sorcerer - Madness- 3/7/36 - 2871.94

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/388008/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

AMR Profile:

Sentinel/Marauder

1. Noo'dles - Marauder - Carnage 5/36/5 - 3221.21

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/365787/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

2. Ranick - Marauder - Carnage - 5/36/5 - 3195.29

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/385111/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

AMR Profile:

3. Alor - Sentinel - Combat - 5/36/5 - 3137.63

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/377320/1/0/Damage+Dealt

AMR Profile: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...f-e6ebbee4044f

4. Aredun - Sentinel - Watchman - 36/8/2 - 3090.86

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/394597/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

AMR Profile: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...5-ef66e9b659ab

5 El'ethon - Sentinel - Combat 5/38/3 - 3090.57

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/353757/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

Scoundrel/Operative

1.Invinc - Operative - Lethality - 4/6/36 - 3248.72

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/353755/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

2. Dizella - Operative - Lethallity 3/7/36 - 3149

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/342539/4/0/Damage+Dealt

3. Kelaeon - Operative - Lethality - 4/6/36 - 2992.77

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/362479/tim...719/0/Overview

4. Bednica - Operative - Lethality 3/6/37 - 2968.96

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/286633/tim...987/0/Overview

5 Thorriin - Scoundrel - Dirty Fighting - 3/7/36 - 2962 dps

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/364103/tim...832/0/Overview

AMR Profile: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...1-c1e49edc09d3

Shadow/Assassin

1. M-knightrider - Shadow - Balance - 8/2/36 - 2836.74

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/395977/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

AMR Profile: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...7-c98ef2f12ee6

2. Wild-berry - Shadow - Balance - 8/2/36 - 2772.97

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/381118/tim...606/0/Overview

AMR Profile: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...d-16e02394559e

3. Darrokk - Shadow - Infiltration 5/36/5 - 2710.69

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/320990/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

4. Jaberse - Shadow - Hybrid - 18/0/28 - 2702.67

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/380914/tim...360/0/Overview

AMR Profile: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/characte...9-6dfa7d64dbd4

5. Ketupa - Shadow - Infiltration 5/36/5 - 2700

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/309448/1/0/Damage+Dealt

Vanguard/Powertech

1. Mruniverse- Vanguard- Hybrid 2/22/22- 3134.83

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/363979/tim...252/0/Overview

2. TruBlood - Powertech - 2/22/22 Hybrid - 3122.98

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/375789/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

3. Tan'qu - Vanguard - Hybrid 2/22/22 - 2887.01

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/365606/tim...962/0/Overview

4. Pyro'n - Powertech - Hybrid - 8-22-16 - 2822.79

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/376624/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

5. Blackbox - Vanguard - Hybrid - 8/11/27 - 2778

Log Link: http://www.torparse.com/a/373008/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

Here I will be noting the various classes in descending order of DPS and as a percentage of the number one spot. This list will only serve as a point of reference against the other classes ON THE COMBAT DUMMY. In actual raid settings, many classes will rise or fall. The presense of armor debuffs, inspiration, executes and other variables present in raid settings makes this an arbitrary list only useful for the purposes of this thread.

Spoiler

The Harbinger

Claimed - Thirteenth - Falver

<Incursio> is recruiting for hard mode and nightmare ops. Apply at http://incursio-swtor.enjin.com

Yeah sins are 500 lower than the rest but they are fine according to others here

If you buff the DPS sin to parse the same numbers as the other classes, you create a GOD class in PvP. Sins are designed with stealth in mind. BW either needs to leave them as is, or somehow make it where they are buffed in PVE but not PvP, and I have no idea if that's even possible.

If you buff the DPS sin to parse the same numbers as the other classes, you create a GOD class in PvP. Sins are designed with stealth in mind. BW either needs to leave them as is, or somehow make it where they are buffed in PVE but not PvP, and I have no idea if that's even possible.

We Arent the only class with stealth so why should others do more dmg and have more armor. Stealth is crap in pvp cu cant avoid gettif pulled out beforec u attack cause aoe spam

If you buff the DPS sin to parse the same numbers as the other classes, you create a GOD class in PvP. Sins are designed with stealth in mind. BW either needs to leave them as is, or somehow make it where they are buffed in PVE but not PvP, and I have no idea if that's even possible.

dont see anyone complaining about dps ops

dont see anyone complaining about dps ops

And they have a lot more dps and better defense. Either buff us or nerf everyone else wer are way outside the 15% range