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Kaggath Tournament: The Dark Imperium vs the Alliance of Worlds


Beniboybling

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The entire game happened because BioWare wanted to make money. If it hadn't had happened, they would have made much money would they? We unfortunately can't use logic like this, we have to accept the facts.

 

That post was worded poorly, I'm sorry. Like I said to Aubere, the Republic and Imperial fleets were unable to match the firepower of Malgus' fleet. When I said "gameplay" I meant our characters actions. Without the characters actions, the stealth fleet would have won. The fact that they would have won that fight without interference, means that ship to ship, Selenial has the advantage.

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It tipped the scales, indicating the gap was not colossal chasm of certain doom as you suggest.

 

However according to your assessment, the battle would have been over before Revan even reached the Star Forge.

 

Noting that before Bastila used her BM, which must have been a good few hours, the Republic held the line. And of course in this instance the enemy actually has a numerical advantage, and probably a big one, and superior tacticians.

 

And one would assume that the entire fleet was destroyed in the end, there was no mention of a retreat.

 

"Green Squadron, We've broken through the line"

"Red Squadron, into the breach"

"Now's our chance, the Sith Fleet is in Dissarray, hit the Star Forge with EVERYTHING we've got"

 

"The Sith are Routed" - Fled...

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Rakata tech was the best of the lot, only slightly rivalled by Gree technology, not only that, but these ships have advanced Stealth Systems not based on the typical Stygium Cloaking Devices, but Adegan Crystals fashioned by the advanced Schism Collective into Stealth systems.

 

Malgus' fleet was capable of facing off both the Imperial Navy and the Republic Navy in simultaneous battles, far far larger fleets, but not nearly as advanced.

 

I really hope you aren't actually going to try and argue that your ships are just as advanced.

 

EDIT: Having just done a bit more research, it is stated that Malgus' fleet wasn't just capable of facing both the Galactic Republic Navy and the Sith Empire Navy, but it was winning.

 

Where is it stated that Malgus was winning?

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I'm not sure that's true, I can't recall the dialogue explicitly but the Republic and Empire seemed to be holding their own (as the Republic did against Malak's forces) and after the battle there is no mention of them suffering significant losses. In fact its implied most of their fleet remains intact. It may be down to lack of suprise, but it should be considered.

 

I can't remember the exact lines, but they were Definitely getting demolished... I don't want to play through the entire thing again just to get quotes, take my word for it? :p

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"Green Squadron, We've broken through the line"

"Red Squadron, into the breach"

"Now's our chance, the Sith Fleet is in Dissarray, hit the Star Forge with EVERYTHING we've got"

 

"The Sith are Routed" - Fled...

Fine, fine. But it still doesn't change the fact that they held their own. And in this situation the Rakatan ships are outnumbered 6 to 1. Can a stealthed ship with Rakatan tech really take out 4-6 vessels alone without being destroyed?

 

Even with OCF backup? I'd cap at three. With critical damage.

 

EDIT: So they could probably take out roughly half before being routed. Leaving the remaining 17 vessels outnumbered over 2 to 1 by 45 ships and probably a Viscount. A scenario which they most likely lose.

Edited by Beniboybling
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Assassin Time!

:jawa_evil:

 

 

 

"Sewed Terror into Republic ranks"

"Horrifying Sight"

"Striking fear into the hearts of their enemies everywhere"

"The only thing scarier than seeing a Sith Assassin, -clad in black robes with glowing red eyes- is not seeing one"

"The presence of a Vibroblade protuding from one's chest is often the alternative"

"Surreptitious Butchers"

"They drain the force from their targets to augment their own powers, and expertly turn captives into sith, with a combination of Torture, Sith Poisons, and the Dark-Side-Drenched masks they wear."

"Most elite of these Assassins are the Bladeborn, Sith Blademasters who sometimes use lightsabers but more often wield Dreaded Tremor Swords."

Powers of Sith Assassins:

Dark Rage, Force Surge. Able to perform devastating Sneak attacks, very Acrobatic, trained in Disarming opponents, Hand to Hand combat, trained in all Melee weapons, Lightsabers, and Pistols.

They utilize Force Pikes, Hold-Out blasters, Infra-Goggles, (Low light vision) Prototype Vibroblades, sith masks, and stealth field generators.

Bladeborn powers:

Rapid strikes, often use Dirty tricks, use the force to inspire fear in targets. Trained in Dual Weapons, have In depth Force ability training, Trained in martial arts and weapon use beyond that of the normal Assassins. They often use Double Bladed Sabers, Hold out Blasters, Infra goggles, Sith mask, Tremor Swords, and stealth field generators.

These Bladeborn gain ranks on How many jedi they have single handedly slain.

 

Edited by Selenial
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If i feel like it i will do a long post about all the stuff thats being underestimated about my faction AGAIN.... seriously some of this is the same stuff i have to defend every time like no one remembers the other Kaggaths this faction was in. I will cover this later if i feel like it, kind of out of it right now.
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Fine, fine. But it still doesn't change the fact that they held their own. And in this situation the Rakatan ships are outnumbered 6 to 1. Can a stealthed ship with Rakatan tech really take out 4-6 vessels alone without being destroyed?

 

Even with OCF backup? I'd cap at three. With damage.

 

90 vs 34...

 

Not a 6-1 disadvantage, even if the AOW is stupid enough to commit their entire fleet.

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Even without the BM, the Sith ships were still Rakata tech no? So did the BM also weaken the Rakata Tech too?....I don't think so, so even then you still had the Republic fleet at the Starforge doing damage to Rakata tech Sith ships.

 

So taking away the BM...I think the Republic fleet would have been able to do some damage.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Even without the BM, the Sith ships were still Rakata tech no? So did the BM also weaken the Rakata Tech too?....I don't think so, so even then you still had the Republic fleet at the Starforge doing damage to Rakata tech Sith ships.

 

So taking away the BM...I think the Republic fleet would have been able to do some damage.

 

Not Rakata Tech, augmented by Rakata Tech. We don't even know what that means, could be engine, energy transfer, interior design... Anything.

 

The Larger republic fleet held it's own, but when the Battle Meditation turned to the Republic's favor, the Sith let holes in their lines, holes that the Republic used to break through and attack the Star Forge, they didn't take the sith ships down.

 

Compare it to the Battle of Endor, with the smaller force winning because the big one went into disarray. Palpatine's great influence left the Imperial Forces, and they were stunned and unable to think straight because of it. Same thing happened to the sith.

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Not Rakata Tech, augmented by Rakata Tech. We don't even know what that means, could be engine, energy transfer, interior design... Anything.

 

The Larger republic fleet held it's own, but when the Battle Meditation turned to the Republic's favor, the Sith let holes in their lines, holes that the Republic used to break through and attack the Star Forge, they didn't take the sith ships down.

 

Compare it to the Battle of Endor, with the smaller force winning because the big one went into disarray. Palpatine's great influence left the Imperial Forces, and they were stunned and unable to think straight because of it. Same thing happened to the sith.

 

Well...even so! Personally me thinks Rakata stuff is too overhyped.

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90 vs 34...

 

Not a 6-1 disadvantage, even if the AOW is stupid enough to commit their entire fleet.

70% of the fleet is not the entire fleet. Its an invasion force planning on victory.

 

Unfortunately a difference of 10 ships won't change much. That means the Alliance will be left with 45 instead of 55 after the stealthed ships are routed, and the OCF will still be outnumbered 2 to 1, outgunned and outmaneuvered. The stealthed ships would have to eliminate roughly 5 vessels each before going down to make it numerically even.

 

And even then, they could still lose.

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I'm not sure that's true, I can't recall the dialogue explicitly but the Republic and Empire seemed to be holding their own (as the Republic did against Malak's forces) and after the battle there is no mention of them suffering significant losses. In fact its implied most of their fleet remains intact. It may be down to lack of suprise, but it should be considered.

 

Erm what? they are about to be destroyed by the fleet, so each commander requests the players to turn the Flux Cannons on Malgus' fleet to save them, that is a major part of the quest.

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70% of the fleet is not the entire fleet. Its an invasion force planning on victory.

 

Unfortunately a difference of 10 ships won't change much. That means the Alliance will be left with 45 instead of 55 after the stealthed ships are routed, and the OCF will still be outnumbered 2 to 1, outgunned and outmaneuvered. The stealthed ships would have to eliminate roughly 5 vessels each before going down to make it numerically even.

 

And even then, they could still lose.

 

You're failing to take into account Fighters here, even with Superior Numbers, I'd quite easily outnumber their fighters by a lot. 497 (if I remember right) fighters per Venator, 16-or So Venators and that's 8000 fighters.

 

That's A LOT. That means tune's Ships need 90 Fighters per Capital Ship to equal the OCF, which wasn't how much they generally used.

 

Then of course, I've got a helluvalotta Tie Fighters etc from the Santhe/Sienar company, AND another 1270 fighters from my Harrowers Alone....

 

Ok, that can be confusing, so let me put it like this. with all the ships of that class that I have...

Venators - 8000 fighters.

Harrowers - 1270 fighters

Acclamator - 480. That's Standard, though they can replace ground Vehicles with Starfighters, so that menas they can hold an extra 1452 if they want.

I dont know Terminus Numbers, so let's factor those out.

 

Then theirs God knows how many from Sienar.

 

And the fact that any fighters from the Stealth fleet, are, you know, Stealthed...

 

I think my fighters hold an advantage you are not taking into account.

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No... It's not. I play Republic, You do the Flux Canons as well. I think.

 

If not, that means in Canon, both probably happened.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhYBMMYj20c#t=4136 Hm? Or was it other instance with the cannons? I can't remember really, haven't done the FP in so long.

 

But ya they could just do both for canon sake.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Erm what? they are about to be destroyed by the fleet, so each commander requests the players to turn the Flux Cannons on Malgus' fleet to save them, that is a major part of the quest.
The Flux Cannons on the Emperor's Space Station, something that does not exist in this scenario. However my point was that they did not suffer colossal losses, so I doubt Malgus was steam rolling them.

 

Of course without hijacking the space station, he would have won.

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