Hi

With the crit changes affecting all class in 2.0 patch which relic would work best for Commando Gunnery?

Currently i have matrix cube with old Battlemaster relic giving 103 to power, and i was thinking about changing pvp relic for Dread Guard relic with proc of some kind. Ive read many posts saying that best relic is kinetic while others are saying that best is internal because it crits more on commandos.

But since they are lowering crit cap from 35% to around 25% and taking away pvp relics with alot of power (new pvp relics got proc and stats like 109 to expertise and 19 to power/endurance) im curious what should i do atm - farm wz for EWH relic before they will be gone or maybe buy one of Dread Guard ones from daily vendor?

With the crit changes affecting all class in 2.0 patch which relic would work best for Commando Gunnery?

Currently the best relics for a Gunnery Commando are the DG power use relic and the DG kinetic proc relic. The reasons are relatively simple and get misread, misinterpreted, and misconstrued with regularity. Suffice it to say that the DG use relic, when you use it on or near CD, provides substantially more Power than the PvP passive relic, and the reason you use the kinetic proc relic rather than any of the other 3 is because, as Gunnery, you have a lot of global armor penetration (through Armor Piercing Cell; the presence of the global ar pen means that you get more out of the damage procs that are affected by armor, energy and kinetic, than you do out of those that are unaffected by them, internal and elemental) and are a Tech using class (which means that you need to use the relics that use your Tech crit chance, kinetic and internal, rather than your Force crit chance, energy and elemental). It's actually pretty simple unless you want someone to show you the math and validation.

As to what will happen for relics in 2.0, I highly suggest you calm yourself and wait. The devs are pretty much guaranteed to put out a new tier of relics, both PvP and PvE, to go with the new tiers of everything else. The ones that currently exist are pretty much guaranteed to be placeholders with early development stats and will likely change before the xpac is actually released (hell, the developers have actually said that a 1.7.3 patch is planned, which means that we shouldn't expect 2.0 to drop any time soon). As it stands, just looking at the relics that we currently know are available in their current (likely-to-be-changed) form (since all of them have the same passive stats except for a single new tank relic that has Defense instead of Power which doesn't jive with how the devs have done things thus far), the DPS relics are most likely to be the Power proc relic and a damage proc relic (though whether they fix the F/T crit rates thing which even the devs didn't know about until players hammered it out remains to be seen); for Gunnery Commandos, the safe bet is still the kinetic damage proc relic since, even if the F/T difference is fixed, it'll still be the appropriate choice based on ar pen.

internal and kinetic proc relics both use the tech crit rating, for gunnery pve the dg kinetic proc and the dg power activation relic are the bis relics. WH/EWH is right there though and are very good relics as well.

For 2.0 it's going to be hard to tell until it goes live, for one the stats could change. When the DG relics were on pts for whatever patch that was, they didn't have the static power stat on them which made it so the pvp relics were better without contest. But when they went live they suddenly had the power stat on them.

More interestingly, when I was on the PTS for 2.0 I noticed a new type of proc relic that adds +power when it procs, but has an internal cooldown of 20 seconds.

there is no new static power relic, so i wouldn't be surprised if they'll be phased out completely.

in addition to the relics mentioned above, there is a new power proc relic that adds a substantial amount of power (currently, 510 for 6s, 20s lockout) that shares its effects lockout with healing and damaging abilities.

basically, what i believe the intention is, that you will have a clicky relic and a proc relic.

the only real decision you'll be making is whether or not you have the power proc or damage proc relic.

this, of course, is all subject to change, and it could very well be an oversight that there's no passive power relic.

basically, what i believe the intention is, that you will have a clicky relic and a proc relic.

the only real decision you'll be making is whether or not you have the power proc or damage proc relic.

The use relics all have bad conversion rates compared to the new Power proc relic, and I doubt that the new Power proc relic is going to be on the same ICD as the damage proc relics, mainly because they've got different ICDs (the Power proc has a 20 sec ICD and the damage proc relics have a 4.5). Unless something really weird happens with them, for DPS, the best combo is going to be a pair of proc relics: one power relic and one damage relic.

The use relics all have bad conversion rates compared to the new Power proc relic, and I doubt that the new Power proc relic is going to be on the same ICD as the damage proc relics, mainly because they've got different ICDs (the Power proc has a 20 sec ICD and the damage proc relics have a 4.5). Unless something really weird happens with them, for DPS, the best combo is going to be a pair of proc relics: one power relic and one damage relic.

The wording's a little unclear, because it has the same text as the other proc relics - "shares this cooldown with similar healing and damaging effects." I'm unsure if that means you can only use one of *any* proc relic at once, or if that's just to keep you from using two Power proc relics at once.

The wording's a little unclear, because it has the same text as the other proc relics - "shares this cooldown with similar healing and damaging effects." I'm unsure if that means you can only use one of *any* proc relic at once, or if that's just to keep you from using two Power proc relics at once.

Unless they're changing everything, only proc relics with similar effects trigger the same ICD, meaning that you could have the power proc relic and a damage proc relic working in sync, but 2 power proc relics or 2 damage proc relics (regardless of what type of damage type they deal) would interfere with each other. Right now, the only class that actually has a reason to do this is Shadow tanks, through the heal proc relic and the absorb proc relic (they're both 20 sec ICDs, but they don't interact with each other). From the way it looks, there are going to be 4 different proc "categories": the power proc relic (in a category of its own), the damage proc relics (unique in having a 4.5 sec ICD), the tanking proc relics (they're adding a Defense rating proc relic in addition to an upgraded version of the existing Abs proc relic), and the healing proc relic (it's entirely possible this might actually interfere with the power proc relic since the power proc relic mentions "healing effects" and is on the same ICD so /shrug).

and I doubt that the new Power proc relic is going to be on the same ICD as the damage proc relics

for PVP, no, they don't share a cooldown. not even if they're the same type or even the exact same relic, but that's most likely due to the fact that the only new relics available for PVP are proc relics.

but the new pve power proc shares a timer with healing and damaging proc relics. it's not a wish or guess or anything of mine that they share a lockout timer. it's listed on the relic itself, and given that they took it away completely from the PVP relics, i'd say they're changing their minds about how the lockouts will work.

it's listed on the relic itself

It's been listed on the relics since the relics were first released, though the question is how "similar XXX effects" is defined, not to mention that it says "shares this cooldown". The 4.5 sec ICD of the damage proc relics isn't the same duration as the 20 sec ICD of the power proc relic so it doesn't really stand to reason that they would be considering "similar XXX effects". Just looking at the item entry doesn't really explain much because most of that can be interpreted pretty openly. As it stands, I'm standing by the ICD categories as I explained them earlier. Unless there's some serious weirdness coded into the ICDs with the ICD itself being variable based upon the procing device, that's most likely how they're gonna land.

the question is how "similar XXX effects" is defined

the simplest solution is that it works as it's stated. damaging and healing effects have been defined in the game for a long time.

the simplest solution is that it works as it's stated. damaging and healing effects have been defined in the game for a long time.

Except that you're forgetting that it says "similar" effects so there's a lot of wiggle room in what exactly is stated, not to mention that's honestly how it looks to be coded at the moment. It also would make almost no sense for a 20 sec ICD relic to share a CD with a 4.5 sec ICD. If everything just "worked as it's stated", we also wouldn't have the whole "Tech proc relics and Force proc relics" issue, but, since it *doesn't* work exactly as stated, we have to deal with that.

Can anyone post the stats on the new top end relics now that 2.0 is live? In particular these:

Power activate

Damage proc (kinetic and internal)

Power proc

I've run with the new power proc relic and the elemental damage one. They do share cool downs but I think in an odd way when I look at the log.

Damage proc relic is uneffected by the power relic, I usually get a proc every 6 seconds and I averaged around that for the log. However, the damage on the power proc does seem to share a cool down so if damage procs while power is available you have to wait till damage is off cooldown before power procs again.

What this meant is that when using both in PvE I was seeing the damage proc every 6 seconds over 5 minutes (i.e 4.5 cool down + 1 GCD on average to proc, and I saw the power relic proc every 33 seconds, which is 20 seconds of cool down followed by 9 GCDs of not procing, probably because the elemental relic rolls first and then reset the cooldown for 4.5 seconds.

Hope this helps.

Ok, here are the stats on underworld relics:

They all have these stats on them in addition to their effect.

98 end

32 pow

power proc

30% 550 pow for 6 sec, 20 sec cooldown

From my previous testing with proc relics I found that in general you would have about 2 global cooldowns between the internal cooldown ending and the effect being reapplied. While that was 3 seconds before, alarity could influence that now. I will use 3 sec for simplicity though.

(550 power * 6 active seconds) / (20 cooldown + 3 extra seconds for the proc to refresh)

143.47 pow/sec

power click

425 pow for 30 sec, I think the cooldown is 2 min?

(425 power * 30 active seconds) / 120 cooldown

106.25 pow/sec

kinetic proc

30% 352 kinetic damage, 4.5 sec cooldown

At the DG level the kinetic was more effective than internal for gunnery due to the AP cell, I havn't checked if that scaled with the underworld relics.

internal proc

30% 264 internal damage, 4.5 sec cooldown

I would be interested to see some logs from people wearing the power proc relic in general but also the power proc + damage proc. The questions I'm most interested in are:

1) Does the internal cooldown of power proc and damage proc interfere with each other?

2) If the damage relics procs, can that in turn proc the power relic.

Currently the Arkanian Relic of Boundless Ages gives 395 power for 30 seconds as opposed to the Dread Guard Relic which gives 350 power for 30 seconds (I think your old values are from when the effects lasted 20 seconds).

Since DG relic also gives you 18 power all the time, while the gain from 45 more power on burn phases equates to only 11.25 on average, I'm sticking with Dread Guard until an Underworld relic becomes available or I decide to make the switch to a damage proc relic, though I have really come to like the on use power for burn phases.

Until I get the drop in raids (we had a power proc relic drop off of both thrasher and the Dread Council fight in TFB this week, but I lost rolls on both =( ) I'm using the PVP relic of the same type. 550 comms is like an hour in warzones, and with new bolster you can get your medals even in DG gear.

One thing: we must now use the ENERGY relic, not the kinetic one. Arkanian kinetic (and I assume also the underworld version) is now FORCE, and energy is now the tech one.

That said, I did find the power change mind boggling. I guess I'll wait for the underworld versions as well.

One thing: we must now use the ENERGY relic, not the kinetic one. Arkanian kinetic (and I assume also the underworld version) is now FORCE, and energy is now the tech one.

 

That said, I did find the power change mind boggling. I guess I'll wait for the underworld versions as well.

lol thx for the input. Seriously. Almost blew 150 basics on the wrong thing. Glad they stealth changed this stealth requirement. Idiots.

At least the relics unambiguously state whether they're doing Force or Tech now.

Also, honestly I wouldn't waste the basic comms.

I'm probably gonna go with a power proc relic

i also think that this is the way to go for gunnery since we don't have any rolling DoTs or anything and therefore won't have as many chances to proc the energy relic

that said, i'm not sure what else i'd use with my basic comms anyway. i'm getting relics and keeping my 63s until i start getting arkanian

i also think that this is the way to go for gunnery since we don't have any rolling DoTs or anything and therefore won't have as many chances to proc the energy relic

 

 

 

that said, i'm not sure what else i'd use with my basic comms anyway. i'm getting relics and keeping my 63s until i start getting arkanian

I think there's definitely an argument to using basic comms to upgrade enhancements and mods in your gear. I'd spend them after doing a few rounds of HM FPs and then just supplementing whatever gear you've gotten from there. Additionally, there is DEFINITELY an argument for saving enough comms till you get champion rep on makeb to get an autocannon for the better barrel.

I think there's definitely an argument to using basic comms to upgrade enhancements and mods in your gear. I'd spend them after doing a few rounds of HM FPs and then just supplementing whatever gear you've gotten from there. Additionally, there is DEFINITELY an argument for saving enough comms till you get champion rep on makeb to get an autocannon for the better barrel.

my only argument against that is that it's craftable, so i've already got the 28s in all my barrels

but if i didn't have it already (or couldn't craft it myself / know someone to craft it), i'd definitely be doing that as well.

my only argument against that is that it's craftable, so i've already got the 28s in all my barrels

 

 

but if i didn't have it already (or couldn't craft it myself / know someone to craft it), i'd definitely be doing that as well.

Ah yeah same. They were going for pretty cheap on my server so I just bought one because I'm impatient. But I DID use my commendations to essentially buy gear with 66 accuracy/power enhancements. My accuracy just been too low for my taste =/

For relics I'm sticking with DG of Boundless Ages, and Partisan of Serendipitous Assault, until I can also get the Conqueror's version and double stack them. Once I get full arkanian my basic comms will be going to gear alts.

...

 

I would be interested to see some logs from people wearing the power proc relic in general but also the power proc + damage proc. The questions I'm most interested in are:

1) Does the internal cooldown of power proc and damage proc interfere with each other?

2) If the damage relics procs, can that in turn proc the power relic.

I did a test this weekend and posted it in another thread. Here's the details:

Okay, so I got around to testing this.

 

I did three parses here, about 3 minutes each, only doing Grav Round / Hammer Shot in rotation just to make it simple and easier to analyze.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/179400

 

First parse is with the Dread Guard Relic of Kinetic Tempest.

Second parse is with the Partisan Relic of Serendipitous Assault.

Third parse is with both.

 

It looks as though they both work together without conflict.

This was with a PvP power proc relic, so it is theoretically possible that the Underworld PvE one won't behave the same, but I unfortunately don't have one to test yet.