I have been thinking about a couple of ideas I had the other day for Arsenal/Gunnery specs that I think would help the class out a bit without making it over powered:

Torque Boosters/Advance the Line - Increases duration of Hydraulic Overrides/Hold the Line by 4 seconds. Additionally Missile Blast/Explosive Round's heat/ammo cost is reduced by 50% while HO/HTL is active.

Barrage/Curtain of Fire - Power Shot/Charged Bolts and Tracer Missile/Grav Round have a [15 / 30 / 45]% chance to finish the cooldown on Unload/Full Auto and increase the damage dealt by the next Unload/Full Auto by 25%. This effect cannot occur more than once every 6 seconds.EDITED:Additionally critical hits with Unload/Full Auto reduce the active cool down of Power Surge/Tech Override by (.5, 1, 1.5) seconds

I'm not sure if these would bring Merc/Mando DPS up to where Snipers are but I think it would certainly help. I also don't believe that these would be overly strong but a good adjustment.

This section no longer applicable

I have only done a back of a napkin calculation but I think if the stars align, starting with the full 15 second CD on HSM/DR, if you haven't procced an Unload/Full Auto in the last 6 seconds and all three ticks crit and then you fire one TM/GR to proc another Unload/FA and at least one of those crits you should be able to get around a 9 sec CD. I didn't account for alacrity, I used Unload/FA as a 3 second channel and TM/DR as a 1.5 second cast. The actual time is reduced could be adjusted obviously but that's BW's job. I suggested one second because because it was just a number that sounded reasonable. I know the situation I gave with all those crits and an immediate proc is unlikely but that is what it should be balanced for because the QQ would be legendary if that happened and you could get the CD reduced by half while keeping the same damage.

Reducing the cost for Missile Blast/Explosive Round while HO/HTL is active just makes sense to me. It's a low damage spammable ability but it's heat cost is too high to use in a normal priority list. However if you reduce it's cost while HO/HTL is active it can be used to try and do some damage while escaping which has been a huge problem for Mercs/Mandos. It's not much but it would certainly be nice to have. A small damage increase could considered as well since I don't think anyone would blow thier HO/HTL just so they could spam MB/ER.

I edited the OP to better reflect the sentiment of the thread.

Okay I don't play the class at max level, so this opinion might not count, but really? I mean I don't really think this class is lacking in the dps department, because it doesn't do any fluff damage. Lowering the cooldown on heatseeker off of unload crits, I mean the damage potential of tracer, heatseek, unload procced and 5 stack rail shot is insane burst and if the stars align it can like destroy someone instantly which is stupid.

I know you didn't mention it, but just because abilities like smash have lowered cooldowns, doesn't mean heatseeker missle should. 15 seconds isn't that long considering its an instant cast, ranged and does lots of damage and your unload and tracer still do really good damage.

If you're comparing this class to sniper? marks has the more damage potential, but most of its damage is white damage. If you're comparing lethality, its more fluff damage and merc has better burst opportunities, because lethality's real burst comes from saving takedown procs in between culls and takedown, cull, takedown... you can only do that every other cull. I would rather have the merc's heatseeker burst combo with 5 stack rail shot, because it does more and is a shorter cooldown.

The missle blast change would be good. I mean at max level its barely a dps increase right now that you use when you're fine on heat when something like saber ward is up or you're pacified and you're moving/can't cast? because its not white damage (also good for stopping caps, because of aoe?). I like that change, because you would use that ability more, but lowering the cooldown on heatseeker off of unload crits, I don't know. Don't think its needed at all. Mercs seem to be in a good spot for 4v4s, warzones won't matter as much after the patch.

I say cut missile blast cost and leave everything else alone.

As it is right now, missile blast is mostly useful for

- interrupting group caps.

- finishing off a fleeing enemy that is trying to los you.

Outside of those 2 instances, missile blast costs too much to use.

And keep in mind that merc/comm dps is based on wearing them down by spamming tracer missile + unload then finishing with the awesome spikeness of explosive dart timed with rail shot + heatseeker.

A merc/comm should not be a mirror of a sniper. If you want sniper, play sniper.

Being a guy that plays every class, i'm just gonna throw it out there that the kolto missile is one of the top 3 awesome abilities in the game. Another is the overload root lightning sorcs get.

Remember, mercs heal to full too, and can do it while running with hydraulic overrides on!

Just remove the cooldown from unload/full auto and make it derp spammable like madness force lightning.

Then you have a bunch of derpy mercs running around pewpewpewing all over the map thinking they are good.

Who's complaining?

It's no secret that Merc DPS is behind Snipers, I'm not saying they should be equal but when given the choice a sniper is a better option due to higher more consistent burst and better group utility.

Missile Blast/Explosive Round needs to have its heat/ammo reduced to 16. I have no idea why its 25 heat/ammo.

The only thing I want to see change for the DPS side of the AC is some better interrupt resistance. Lowering the cooldown of Power Surge/Tech Override would be huge (as its the only ability that provides a way to avoid being interrupted for the DPS specs).

Our damage output is fine and needs to changing whatsoever. Its just actually being able to maintain that damage output (or even a semblance of it) when pressured that is the problem.

Missile Blast/Explosive Round needs to have its heat/ammo reduced to 16. I have no idea why its 25 heat/ammo.

 

The only thing I want to see change for the DPS side of the AC is some better interrupt resistance. Lowering the cooldown of Power Surge/Tech Override would be huge (as its the only ability that provides a way to avoid being interrupted for the DPS specs).

 

Our damage output is fine and needs to changing whatsoever. Its just actually being able to maintain that damage output (or even a semblance of it) when pressured that is the problem.

Maybe have crits on Unload/FA lower the active CD on Power Surge/Tech Override by (.5, 1, 1.5 seconds)?

or maybe give our shield unshakable buff for all speces, not just combat medic

Again I don't have a commando, but I play with one who is in greens still 26k healthish and he destroys people. He gets trained by multiple melee and doesn't have too much trouble getting casts off. I honestly have an easier time living with him peeling for me on my sage rather than the same player on his guardian tank, just because he's ranged and can kill stuff so unless we get zerged we don't die.

Reactive shield is a really short cooldown already and because of that talent that reduces its cooldown when you get attacked it seems to be up a lot. Hold the line is up what? 40% of the time almost, I mean its amazing. If you can't get casts off with hold the line and your shock strike root, knockback, electro net and stun I don't really know what to say.

The class has plenty of utility to do when you get locked on grav round anyways or have to move/kite. Kolto missle is very good. It actually has a lot of instants it can use, cleanse and stealth scan. I could see pushback being a problem for a gunnery commando, but not really, grav round is a pretty fast cast. I just don't think giving this class an interrupt immunity would be a good idea, especially on their shield that has a reduced cooldown whenever they get hit.

A change to missle blast would be good, just because it would make that ability more useful. Having close to useless abilities really is dumb from a design point of view. That energy cost on it doesn't make sense at all.

But that's like barely even a buff, interrupt immunity on shield or a reduction on heatseeker missle's cooldown would be major changes and I really do think the spec is solid in 4v4, but to be honest there's no way to tell until the patch is out for a couple months.

Er...Arsenal DPS is fine. Go check parses sometime.

What we do need, tho, is more mobility.

I'll still never understand why Merc/Commando wasn't given a backwards leap like WoW's Disengage. They'd benefit tremendously from it.

Again I don't have a commando, but I play with one who is in greens still 26k healthish and he destroys people. He gets trained by multiple melee and doesn't have too much trouble getting casts off. I honestly have an easier time living with him peeling for me on my sage rather than the same player on his guardian tank, just because he's ranged and can kill stuff so unless we get zerged we don't die.

 

Reactive shield is a really short cooldown already and because of that talent that reduces its cooldown when you get attacked it seems to be up a lot. Hold the line is up what? 40% of the time almost, I mean its amazing. If you can't get casts off with hold the line and your shock strike root, knockback, electro net and stun I don't really know what to say.

 

The class has plenty of utility to do when you get locked on grav round anyways or have to move/kite. Kolto missle is very good. It actually has a lot of instants it can use, cleanse and stealth scan. I could see pushback being a problem for a gunnery commando, but not really, grav round is a pretty fast cast. I just don't think giving this class an interrupt immunity would be a good idea, especially on their shield that has a reduced cooldown whenever they get hit.

 

A change to missle blast would be good, just because it would make that ability more useful. Having close to useless abilities really is dumb from a design point of view. That energy cost on it doesn't make sense at all.

 

But that's like barely even a buff, interrupt immunity on shield or a reduction on heatseeker missle's cooldown would be major changes and I really do think the spec is solid in 4v4, but to be honest there's no way to tell until the patch is out for a couple months.

again dude lvl a merc/mando and go play in a 55 lvl pvp, smart oponents will interrupt the crap out of you. And if your friend in greens destroys ppl i don't even wanna know where u guys play, cause on my server i pretty much kill 26k hp ppl like bugs ;] If you have no idea about the subject, don't talk this nonsense and go hide in your hole ;]

Again I don't have a commando, but I play with one who is in greens still 26k healthish and he destroys people. He gets trained by multiple melee and doesn't have too much trouble getting casts off. I honestly have an easier time living with him peeling for me on my sage rather than the same player on his guardian tank, just because he's ranged and can kill stuff so unless we get zerged we don't die.

 

Reactive shield is a really short cooldown already and because of that talent that reduces its cooldown when you get attacked it seems to be up a lot. Hold the line is up what? 40% of the time almost, I mean its amazing. If you can't get casts off with hold the line and your shock strike root, knockback, electro net and stun I don't really know what to say.

 

The class has plenty of utility to do when you get locked on grav round anyways or have to move/kite. Kolto missle is very good. It actually has a lot of instants it can use, cleanse and stealth scan. I could see pushback being a problem for a gunnery commando, but not really, grav round is a pretty fast cast. I just don't think giving this class an interrupt immunity would be a good idea, especially on their shield that has a reduced cooldown whenever they get hit.

 

A change to missle blast would be good, just because it would make that ability more useful. Having close to useless abilities really is dumb from a design point of view. That energy cost on it doesn't make sense at all.

 

But that's like barely even a buff, interrupt immunity on shield or a reduction on heatseeker missle's cooldown would be major changes and I really do think the spec is solid in 4v4, but to be honest there's no way to tell until the patch is out for a couple months.

If I'm getting trained by multiple melee my day is done, end of story. There is no way anyone should get a cast off against 2+ melee unless they are as thick as a tree trunk.

Yes I can get casts off with a Rocket punch + KB combo but against multiple enemies with half a brain, not to mention if they are warries, again your goose is cooked.

Honestly I think a skill to reduce the CD on power surge and an overall heat reduction cost on Missile blast would be nice QoL improvements but aren't entirely necessary as our burst when uninterrupted and the RNG gods smile upon us is some of the best in the game

Commando's are doing just fine in PVP now you have your stupid high 10k demo crits you idiots don't need buffed anymore.

While that is true i am more than willing to take random unnecessary buffs.

In an seriousness though gunnery dps is very strong right now, even with people kicking your grav casts we have so much we can do during the lock out damage/healing wise its never really an issue in the long term. It's not exactly a hard spec to play at a high level so expecting too much in the buff category is just setting yourself up for disappointment, in my opinion. Best you can really hope for is maybe CD reduction on tech override for some extra no cc damage/healing.

The only change I want to see is reducing the cooldowns of Power Surge/Tech Override and Thermal Sensor Override/Reserve Powercell.

120s base cooldowns for abilities that basically have a base 118.5s downtime is stupid. In the case of PS/TO for Arsenal/Gunnery, its a 90s cooldown and ~80s of downtime.

Two abilities which could potentially give the class a bit more uniqueness, as well as improve functionality a ton.

But damage output in Arsenal/Gunnery needs absolutely no changes IMO. Its Pyro/Assault that needs some lovin

I have been thinking about a couple of ideas I had the other day for Arsenal/Gunnery specs that I think would help the class out a bit without making it over powered:

 

Torque Boosters/Advance the Line - Increases duration of Hydraulic Overrides/Hold the Line by 4 seconds. Additionally Missile Blast/Explosive Round's heat/ammo cost is reduced by 50% while HO/HTL is active.

 

Barrage/Curtain of Fire - Power Shot/Charged Bolts and Tracer Missile/Grav Round have a [15 / 30 / 45]% chance to finish the cooldown on Unload/Full Auto and increase the damage dealt by the next Unload/Full Auto by 25%. This effect cannot occur more than once every 6 seconds.Additionally critical hits with Unload/Full Auto reduce the active cool down of Heat Seeker Missiles/Demolition Round by (.3, .6, 1 sec).

 

I'm not sure if these would bring Merc/Mando DPS up to where Snipers are but I think it would certainly help. I also don't believe that these would be overly strong but a good adjustment.

 

I have only done a back of a napkin calculation but I think if the stars align, starting with the full 15 second CD on HSM/DR, if you haven't procced an Unload/Full Auto in the last 6 seconds and all three ticks crit and then you fire one TM/GR to proc another Unload/FA and at least one of those crits you should be able to get around a 9 sec CD. I didn't account for alacrity, I used Unload/FA as a 3 second channel and TM/DR as a 1.5 second cast. The actual time is reduced could be adjusted obviously but that's BW's job. I suggested one second because because it was just a number that sounded reasonable. I know the situation I gave with all those crits and an immediate proc is unlikely but that is what it should be balanced for because the QQ would be legendary if that happened and you could get the CD reduced by half while keeping the same damage.

 

Reducing the cost for Missile Blast/Explosive Round while HO/HTL is active just makes sense to me. It's a low damage spammable ability but it's heat cost is too high to use in a normal priority list. However if you reduce it's cost while HO/HTL is active it can be used to try and do some damage while escaping which has been a huge problem for Mercs/Mandos. It's not much but it would certainly be nice to have. A small damage increase could considered as well since I don't think anyone would blow thier HO/HTL just so they could spam MB/ER.

post this in the class questions thread

I have to chuckle when people say that Arsenal is fine because it can land a 10k crit with HSM on a weak foe. Compare that to smash monkeys who can land 10k smashes all the time on weak foes AND have it be AoE.

The reality is that Arsenal is lacking in dps output compared to rage/focus and lethality. Arsenal is more closely aligned with hybrid dps Sorcs. The dps Sorc does about 25% more combined damage and healing, but is modestly more squishy.

If the devs were willing to think outside the box, they'd consider making Merc dps into a better healer, opening up new ground as a character type that doesn't mimic the other classes. For example, if each player healed by a Kolto Missile had a 15% chance to make the next Rapid Scan have zero heat cost and be instant cast, Arsenal would then probably have better healing numbers than Sorc dps, while retaining the lower damage output. It probably still wouldn't fit very well for a 4 man arena team, but at least it would have some added value over its current status.

I have to chuckle when people say that Arsenal is fine because it can land a 10k crit with HSM on a weak foe. Compare that to smash monkeys who can land 10k smashes all the time on weak foes AND have it be AoE.

 

The reality is that Arsenal is lacking in dps output compared to rage/focus and lethality. Arsenal is more closely aligned with hybrid dps Sorcs. The dps Sorc does about 25% more combined damage and healing, but is modestly more squishy.

 

If the devs were willing to think outside the box, they'd consider making Merc dps into a better healer, opening up new ground as a character type that doesn't mimic the other classes. For example, if each player healed by a Kolto Missile had a 15% chance to make the next Rapid Scan have zero heat cost and be instant cast, Arsenal would then probably have better healing numbers than Sorc dps, while retaining the lower damage output. It probably still wouldn't fit very well for a 4 man arena team, but at least it would have some added value over its current status.

Smash does not routinely hit for 10000+ per hit. Smash usually hits for around 8500. Some classes have access to AOE damage taken reduction.

I have to chuckle when people say that Arsenal is fine because it can land a 10k crit with HSM on a weak foe. Compare that to smash monkeys who can land 10k smashes all the time on weak foes AND have it be AoE.

 

The reality is that Arsenal is lacking in dps output compared to rage/focus and lethality. Arsenal is more closely aligned with hybrid dps Sorcs. The dps Sorc does about 25% more combined damage and healing, but is modestly more squishy.

 

If the devs were willing to think outside the box, they'd consider making Merc dps into a better healer, opening up new ground as a character type that doesn't mimic the other classes. For example, if each player healed by a Kolto Missile had a 15% chance to make the next Rapid Scan have zero heat cost and be instant cast, Arsenal would then probably have better healing numbers than Sorc dps, while retaining the lower damage output. It probably still wouldn't fit very well for a 4 man arena team, but at least it would have some added value over its current status.

The point of Arsenal is to be single target dps. We don't put pressure on the entire team like rage but if a healer is in our sights we are going to make damn sure they can't do their job properly. Overall our dps is fine where it is, it just requires a greater skill gap to play by having greater situational awareness and knowing how to kite your enemies properly.

We already have the ability to make healing scan insta cast but it is rarely used as you use your stacks on rail shot. Some QoL improvements would be nice but not necessary as I said before

Smash does not routinely hit for 10000+ per hit. Smash usually hits for around 8500. Some classes have access to AOE damage taken reduction.

HSM does not routinely hit for 10k+. HSM usually hits for around 5000.

The fact of the matter is that you need the right set of circumstances (power relic up, weak enemy with no defensive abilities active) in order to get smash to hit for 10k. For HSM to hit for 10k, you need all of those conditions AND you need to roll a crit.

Right now rage/focus is as good a single target dps platform for pvp as Arsenal. And it is a much better AoE platform. Therein lies the problem.