I know I skip everything that can be skipped and that people are not used to shadow tanks actually using their soft cc strategically. Because of that, I start my FP runs with a greeting, followed by "please follow the tank". I try to give instructions along the way in hopes of avoiding confusion and needless aggro.

I like to do the same thing on my healer (sawbones) or infil shadow, however I do what the group decides to do in a group setting.

 

Had a Scoundrel healer when tanking BoI last night as Vanguard. The guy said he'd take care of the two power stations on the left while we take out the third one. Friended that gem of a healer immediately.

I do this all the time. A lot of time I run with a tank shadow from the guild, he will get two and I will get one and tell dps to wait for us at the bunker, if I am not with him, then I will take out two and sometimes all three depending on the group. Some groups I don't want attacking anything unless I am in range to heal them.

 

Where I am very different, I don't get upset if people accidently aggro stuff. I don't mind taking 15 seconds to kill a mob if it was a honest mistake. I also don't want them running away from me, I want people that have aggro running towards me, so I can either heal them or kill whatever they aggroed depending on my role. If they do that, they will live and the mob will die.

Edited March 1, 2013 by mikebevo

You're the tank I hate grouping with, always rushing to the next pack when I'm trying to regen my force.

 

You have to be a really bad healer in order to lose that much force with me tanking.

 

Where I am very different, I don't get upset if people accidently aggro stuff. I don't mind taking 15 seconds to kill a mob if it was a honest mistake. I also don't want them running away from me, I want people that have aggro running towards me, so I can either heal them or kill whatever they aggroed depending on my role. If they do that, they will live and the mob will die.

 

I've almost given up on correcting people's mistakes. Got way too many situations where I was blamed for aggroing after I ran in to help. I find it much easier to ask people to follow me and get things done in an orderly fashion.

Edited March 1, 2013 by slafko

The issue is not whet her speed tanking is good or bad. It's personalities.

As a "speed tank"... I'll agree... It drives me absolutely bonkers when people drag *** in a flash point. I'm gonna push. I'm gonna put a little oomph in the run. But I' m not gonna push anyone hard enough to make it not fun anymore. If someone needlessly aggros? F' it.... Ill kill that too. But I'm not gonna blast anybody for making an error, or just let them die.

 

On the other side of that. Yes, I agree that healers are not necessary to engage. That doesn't have anything to do with my opinion of healers. I lovez mah healers! But! I don't have to have you standing there ready with your trigger finger on the heal button when I pull. I'm a big boy. I can handle it while you regen, loot, etc. Hell... Go make a sammich. (a hungry healer is a grumpy healer). When you get there and I'm sitting at half health still getting beat on.... Don't panic.... Have some faith in me. I've got heals, medpacs, stuns, CC's, CD's, and other letters as well. Honestly... Most of your good Shadows and Sins don't really WANT full health bars. Leave my *** in the 80's and I'll get the rest.

 

Probably the only time I will bark at a healer, is when the initial panic has subsided and they have gotten that confidence that I'm not gonna get them killed. Then they get all into the power run..... That's when I'll start ************ about their low DPS (funny enough.... There have been more than a few runs that after about half way.... I'll catch the healer being the first one running in )

 

TL;DR... Speed runs are a great and wonderful experience much akin to your first orgy..... Providing the healer isn't as timid panic puppyr and the tank isn't a pompous ***clown!

Its all about personalities!

Edited March 1, 2013 by Grumpftard

/facepalm

Nice, with an opinion of healers that low I'm amazed you haven't found your way to the ignore list of every healer on your server, on which note what server are you on and what are your character names, I'd like to add you to ignore if you're on my server on the grounds I'd hate to run a HM with you, especially as a healer who is apparently only useful at maybe one or two of the bosses and aside from that may as well just be on item collection duty.

As someone who mains a healer, I would kill to have more tanks like him on my server. Are you there to do the content or perform some sort of involved social ritual between each pull? Push yourself a little bit... you might actually find it engaging.

 

Yes, I see your point for OPs. Thanks

It's true of most PVE content. Healer threat is roughly 50% of healing done divided across all mobs. So if you just did a 7k heal and there's 7 mobs then you're looking at 500 threat generated on each mob. At that point, if something's attacking you it's most likely because no one else has hit it at all, and having guard isn't going to help you at all: 75% of something is still more than nothing.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Aurojiin

Okay, I'll bite just for the fun of it...

 

 

It's not a mistranslation for two reasons: 1) I do not write posts in my native language only to translate them before posting, and 2) you're failing to comprehend a simple statement for the third time now. That tells me you're either trolling or simple.

 

You took my "the healer is not needed for the team to engage a mob" and somehow extrapolated that I have healers in low regard and consider them needed only occassionaly. I've explained it twice. In detail. You're still not getting it. Seriously? Come on.

 

 

What you call "stopping for a breath" I call wasting time. Current flashpoints are such that everyone regenerates on the move while skipping the skippable and are above 90% once the next mob is engaged. As I said a few times already - one does not need to be at full health, force or ammo to aggro any flashpoint mob.

 

As for the pulls, you might want to read my first post again. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned all sorts of situations where people aggro. Let me repeat once more (although I know it won't have any effect): 1) people presume the tank is going to take the path they're used to and engage, 2) people have no idea where to position themselves and aggro a patrol or get knocked back into another mob, 3) people do not listen to the tank and end up aggroing more mobs, 4) people break tank's soft cc, 5) people stick to the old ways of doing flashpoints and aggro needlessly, 6) people will intentionally aggro out of spite.

 

I think that about covers it.

 

P.S. Please accept my sincerest apologies for providing false information in one of my previous posts. I have erroneously stated having 4500 hours on a healer/support character. As it turns out, the number is 4700. Thank you for your time.

 

I guess I took a fair bit more than was meant from your necessity of healers comment but from what you've said you kinda do make it sound like you consider healers to not be needed for the trash part of a HM (which is most of it) and that would certainly make me feel useless if I was healing on a HM and would make me feel like leaving the group. This could be another misunderstanding but maybe you now see where I'm coming from at least.

 

As for the break-neck pace comment, I consider any pace where you don't go back to help with an accidental pull break-neck so I guess it's a matter of opinion

I guess I took a fair bit more than was meant from your necessity of healers comment but from what you've said you kinda do make it sound like you consider healers to not be needed for the trash part of a HM (which is most of it) and that would certainly make me feel useless if I was healing on a HM and would make me feel like leaving the group. This could be another misunderstanding but maybe you now see where I'm coming from at least.)

We should be fair, I have seen tanks quit, when group finder first came out because they were looking for a certain drop and then later when someone accidently pulled something and the rest of the group would not go along with their automatic vote kick of the person that pulled. If I am on my healer, even back when she was just rakata, a tank isn't necessary to complete many of the hmfps, if you have an average healer and dps that is willing to listen. I don’t even pull out a companion tanks during those times, I use a dps companion. If I am on my dps shadow, and have a good healer and dps that will listen, then I can pretty much do any tier 1 HM FP. I have even been on one guild run when we did HM D7, with no healer or tank because one person needed it for the speeder achievement and we were racing against them taking the server down. So no, healer are not need for all trash pulls in HMFPs (or even boss fights for that matter), but then again neither are tanks. Edited March 2, 2013 by mikebevo

even when they do stuff that seems stupid like staying in during punishment.

 

Actually, the damage on Punishment is low enough and rate at which it fires is high enough that you're, honestly, better off just staying in and healing through it. It also helps because it ends up killing the boss faster rather than arbitrarily dragging the fight out longer because people are spending half of their time running around rather than casting or hanging in melee like they need to in order to actually deal damage, not to mention that 90% of the time, if you're running out, you'll still get clipped by Punishment unless you're using a +speed buff so you're losing on both counts.

 

People that recommend running out are just those that don't realize that, sometimes, effects are simply intended to be healed through rather than arbitrarily attempted to be avoided. The clue that you're supposed to just heal through Punishment is that it happens regularly every 10 seconds or so, not to mention that it's never actually been an insta-gib mechanic (even when I first started doing it in entry blues over a year ago, it still only did ~50% hp damage, which, considering it's the only appreciable damage the boss deals, is more than enough for a healer to take care of if they're not spending all of their time running around). Seriously, next time you do MP, just tell everyone to stay in for the Punishment: it's easier to heal and the boss simply dies faster no matter what level of gear you're using.

I love getting yelled at for "losing aggro" by people who don't have a clue that the boss is scripted to attack randomly.

 

If you're talking about the miniboss droid in MP, that boss isn't scripted to randomly attack at all. The massive knockback the boss does is a threat drop. If you're decent with your taunts, you can actually prevent anyone else in your group from being targeted by it.

 

As to the other bosses, none of them are scripted for explicit random targeting. At worst, they have a *single* attack that picks a random non-tank target: the cyborg boss has Wrist Laser, the DBLS boss has Shadow Strike (the boss will continue attacking the person for a few seconds after Shadow Strike actually finishes because the scripted time frame for targeting that person is still active), and the Moff has Snipe. Most of the other effects that people misconstrue as "random targeting" are actually threat drop mechanisms: the cyborg's charged Eye Laser drops threat on any target he hits with it (and, interesting note, while in that phase, the boss will not swap targets for any reason other than a threat drop so, as long as you taunt the boss while he's doing the charge cast and know how to break LoS while kiting, your DPS can laugh their way to the bank as they attack the boss indiscriminately during that entire phase).

 

The only boss in the entire game, as far as I can recall, that is truly "random target" is Bonethrasher. Every other boss either has a single attack that chooses a random target and/or utilizes threat drop attacks (here's a hint: if it knocks you back, there's a *damned* good chance it's a threat drop)

i have NEVER played a healing class before ever and this is my first attempt, but no matter what happens i always fail. i am about sick to death of moronic dbags verbally abusing me and trashing me because i dont keep their health bars maxed out. what is the use of playing when all i ever see is negativity in this game? i cant even find a decent guild that has actual mature people in it...what a waste....

 

 

to try to bring this tread back on track , what level are you at, I assume your sage what rotation are you using?

Do you have an idea as to what it is that cause the wipes? are you beign killed first ? running out of force ? hitting enrage timmers ( that one is all on the DPS btw).

 

a few pointers I can give those is from my own prefences and experience playing a sage healer since release

1: turn on target of target and the cast bar linked with it. this helps you see the boss and can use your bubble for large damage spike attacks from the boss, or start big heals right before the attack hits so you already half way to casting it

 

2 Force bubble isnt cheap so try to only use it when you really need it. you dont want to waste it on DPS not taking damage, or to not beable to cast it on a tank because of the debuff when you really need it.

 

3 Channeled heal: cost you force upfront once you start it, if you end the channel before its over it just wasted force power.

 

4 Heal over time , this should almost always be kept on the tank It heals them buffs their armor and the short buff gives you a huge crit buff to your next heal,

to try to bring this tread back on track ,

 

Lol..agreed. This thread took a hell of a side track.

 

But I'll go one step further and put my money where my mouth is...Carbie?....what server are you on?

If you are on Jedi Covenant.....Look for Grumpf or any of the toons in my signature. I'll take you running and we can figure out if there is anything that you might be doing that could be improved upon and hopefully give you an opportunity to see that healing can be fun.

But I'll go one step further and put my money where my mouth is...Carbie?....what server are you on?

I will do the same, my main is a healer, so she would be useless to you, but I have two other 50's on the republic side, Mar'ina and Leyn'a on The Harbinger. Not saying I am the greatest player in the world, this is my first MMO as was it my first time healing anything. I have however gotten to the point where I have finished HM TfB and 2 of the bosses on NiM EC on my healer. My dps has only been through HM EC, I do however know my abilities on DPS and most important to a healer, I know my defensive cooldowns and use them when needed. I also never belittle others, because it is rude, plus last year I was having the same problems. Edited March 2, 2013 by mikebevo

If you're talking about the miniboss droid in MP, ...

I'm not. And you went way off course as usual.

 

I guess I took a fair bit more than was meant from your necessity of healers comment but from what you've said you kinda do make it sound like you consider healers to not be needed for the trash part of a HM (which is most of it) and that would certainly make me feel useless if I was healing on a HM and would make me feel like leaving the group. This could be another misunderstanding but maybe you now see where I'm coming from at least.

It was clear to me that you misinterpreted my posts from the start. And, looking at the underlined text, you again miss the entire "not need in order to engage" point. Healers are needed to patch us back up before next aggro. And by patching up I don't mean everyone at 100% health. Mobs in fp's are easily doable with less than max hp. It's not like the game offers spike attacks that will instagib people that are not at max health. That's why I said picking up loot is the healer's job - he frees the rest of the team to proceed onwards without much delays.

Edited March 2, 2013 by slafko

I'm not. And you went way off course as usual.

 

 

It was clear to me that you misinterpreted my posts from the start. And, looking at the underlined text, you again miss the entire "not need in order to engage" point. Healers are needed to patch us back up before next aggro. And by patching up I don't mean everyone at 100% health. Mobs in fp's are easily doable with less than max hp. It's not like the game offers spike attacks that will instagib people that are not at max health. That's why I said picking up loot is the healer's job - he frees the rest of the team to proceed onwards without much delays.

 

Ah I get it now, I took one of your earlier posts about clearing half a pack on your own and applied it a bit too broadly, fair enough but I'd still find it annoying if you started a fight while I'm still trying to catch up, particularly on the 2 healing classes with no speed boost (at least until 2.0 )

Edited March 2, 2013 by WooliestWorm

i have NEVER played a healing class before ever and this is my first attempt, but no matter what happens i always fail. i am about sick to death of moronic dbags verbally abusing me and trashing me because i dont keep their health bars maxed out. what is the use of playing when all i ever see is negativity in this game? i cant even find a decent guild that has actual mature people in it...what a waste....

 

Try and run flashpoints/operations with friendly players. Sooner or later you're gonna run into a bunch of douchebags who don't know what CCing is. And if you're constantly being attacked by mobs in a flashpoint tell the group of your issue. If the tank doesn't get aggro off you, just leave the group.

Edited March 4, 2013 by Bellumpvp

lots of good suggestions here, you have found the forums make sure you have read everything in the class/consular/sage section on healing.

 

good luck and don't let the moaners get you down!

I *LOVE* the healers! Being on (basically) my first character at level 33 with a DPS (tank minor), I'm sure I am not anywhere near efficient at my role, but I sure appreciate the healers and do everything I can to keep the aggro off them. If necessary, I've mass taunted mobs (when I'm not playing the tank role) just to buy the others a few seconds to recover, wherein often times they will and we proceed (after they pick my sorry butt off the floor a time or two).

 

I have only done pick-up groups, but organized parties sounds like it would be fun. Thus far, even with frustrations with folks charging in without any crowd control, breaking crowd control, or not focusing on the right order of targets, I've yet to experience a cranky member.

 

My primary character, who I suppose is now an alternate since I abandoned him at an early level due to some system glitches, is a healer, and I look forward to using him in groups once I'm through my class storyline.

Try and run flashpoints/operations with friendly players. Sooner or later you're gonna run into a bunch of douchebags who don't know what CCing is. And if you're constantly being attacked by mobs in a flashpoint tell the group of your issue. If the tank doesn't get aggro off you, just leave the group.

 

agreed. I unfortunately played with this Dude named Furii on the Jedi Covenant server, you know, the guy with all the perks Cartel Points can buy. His Mommy must have left her credit card home one unfortunate morning. He may have been the worst Tank I have ever seen, running ahead of us all, then stopping, not engaging the mobs, no one knew what to do. Seriously, it was enough for me to respec to balance, F Healing.

i have NEVER played a healing class before ever and this is my first attempt, but no matter what happens i always fail. i am about sick to death of moronic dbags verbally abusing me and trashing me because i dont keep their health bars maxed out. what is the use of playing when all i ever see is negativity in this game? i cant even find a decent guild that has actual mature people in it...what a waste....

 

Get used with it, it happens all the time that people who are ignorant to healing themselves try to find scapecoat and healer is usually their first target as they do not know much more else about combat mechanics. Regardless, try improve your own skills and learn to maintain your focus even when somebody tries to troll you.

 

What lot of unskilled players, especially those with some WoW-style MMO background do not understand: secret of good healing is not keeping everyone topped up but keeping key party members ( yourself, tank and high damage dps ) alive when they mess up on something. Set aside booss-fights rarely start healing before player goes under 2/3 life as it would end up in over-healing due self-regeneration and strengthen wrong behavior and create more reckless players who may not even be aware what it costs to keep them alive.

 

Normally in flashpoints, set aside some boss fights, anyone who needs external healing is either unskilled, seriously undergeared or plain reckless fool.

 

I don't see a problem with being yelled at; stop healing them entirely and they'll shut up.

 

Good point. As healer in flashpoint you usually are most important for party and that means when somebody tries to bully you, you can usually bully them too. When somebody tries to kick you without good reason and fails or whines too much over your healing, kick them will be best idea as that party would not work anyways. Most practical people will rather support healer then anyone else in conflict. Just try to be fair and if you really mess up yourself or have lag problems then be ready to admit it.

 

When I'm playing dps, the thing I hate the most is a slow tank. Some tanks wait a few seconds after a group has been killed to start moving again. Then they stand a few seconds in front of the next group before they aggro. It drives me insane. Those constant, needless delays. I start moving when the last mob in the group is about to die and I throw my lightsaber at it in the process. If the tank is especially slow and wastes time to pick up drops (which is a healer's job), I'll jump into the mob, pop my defensive cooldowns and take half of them out by the time the lazypants tank decides to join.

 

You should really not play tank with that kind of problem as this is just type of players who makes half of flashpoint pugs living hell for healers and unskilled players. They cause lot of wipes - wasting tons of time and usually end up breaking party due differencies of opinion. Not paying attention to anyone else and only blindly rushing ahead. Take into account that most players may not have skilled or have enough knowledge about particular flashpoint and lack rocket boosters or other skills to catch you up in time or to watch their flanks for aggro - so you setting your party up for potential disaster.

 

When playing healer I really hate tanks who do not give me time to position myself correctly, pre-shield, apply cc and/or constantly break my meditation. It might not be needed when you run with people you know well enough or with who your playstyle fits well enough. You should certainly not start with reckless style in beginning of flashpoint. If party seems to fit together, you can gradually increase speed but you should always give at least few second for healer before jumping into next combat.

Edited March 14, 2013 by notean

When I'm playing dps, the thing I hate the most is a slow tank. Some tanks wait a few seconds after a group has been killed to start moving again. Then they stand a few seconds in front of the next group before they aggro. It drives me insane. Those constant, needless delays. I start moving when the last mob in the group is about to die and I throw my lightsaber at it in the process. If the tank is especially slow and wastes time to pick up drops (which is a healer's job), I'll jump into the mob, pop my defensive cooldowns and take half of them out by the time the lazypants tank decides to join.

 

Believe me, the tank hates you just as much. I can't stand jump-the-gun DPSes who are constantly prematurely ejaculating.

 

Going by your other posts, you don't seem to view this game as a game. You seem to want to race through and get your presents as quickly as possible. And hey, if the rest of your group feels the same that's fine. But don't pretend that it's a problem with everyone else rather than with you.

Healing in PvE? Simple rules.

 

Your first priority is:

http://imgur.com/a87gTC4

 

If one of the DPS wants to finish the FP in 3 minutes because he is so pr0,1337, etc let him go:

http://imgur.com/sGsplh0

 

Because as long the tank is:

http://imgur.com/DZNGxfB

 

You:

http://imgur.com/BKZ4GI2

 

I hope it helps :D

The main way you pull aggro as a healer is from putting heals on the tank before he has a chance to build threat. If you have HoTs running on him, or a bubble before he pulls, then you will move to the top of the threat list instantly before he does any damage. You are also the only thing in the threat table of any new adds that appear, before anyone does any damage to them. This is why the tank or DPS are supposed to pick up adds when they appear, so that they don't make a beeline for you.

 

. Shields cast before combat do not cause any aggro and pre-hot wont give enough aggro ever to pull off stuff from tank if he hits/smashes them even once. Only case when impatient/reckless tank jumps in while healer casts shield can get healer some aggro. It is really possible for healer to pull anything off from tank only when tank is very unskilled or undergeared and massive amount of healing is needed to keep poor guy alive. That case healer might be better off tanking himself anyways.

 

. Then again, with my sage I am not afraid of aggro and quite capable of seeking cover should I drop too low. As matter of fact I always prefer to start combat and pull aggro on myself delibrately, so that initial burst does not one-hit undergeared tank or some careless dps outright. I can always tank 2-3 trash and cc one of mobs if tank can hold champions or boss - we are fine. This will not give any problems for skilled tank and can cause difficulties only when idiot tank decides just to bang on my cc-ed mob and ignore the rest.

 

Healers are needed to patch us back up before next aggro. And by patching up I don't mean everyone at 100% health. Mobs in fp's are easily doable with less than max hp. It's not like the game offers spike attacks that will instagib people that are not at max health. That's why I said picking up loot is the healer's job - he frees the rest of the team to proceed onwards without much delays.

 

. How very wrong you are. Everyone who is not totally clueless will patch up themselves - every class has their own regeneration skill which can heal you much faster then any healer ever can. Healer can help with insta-cast or channeling sometimes when somebody is on very low health but more then that is just babysitting. When you rush ahead of healers to next combat it is difficult if not impossible to heal you anyways. Healer may have difficulty getting into range or line of sight and is most certainly not positioned properly even when he manages to catch up by wasting his cooldown.

 

. Starting combat on less then 90% life is clear sign of inexperienced player - there always chance somebody pulls extra group or two. As for picking up loot - healers can do it just as well as anybody else but they usually already have more on their plate then other group members and it is important for healer to arrive to next combat site among first to get yourself correctly positioned before some reckless player slows you down by engaging early.

Edited March 14, 2013 by notean

How very wrong you are. Everyone who is not totally clueless will patch up themselves - every class has their own regeneration skill which can heal you much faster then any healer ever can.

Hmmm, I'll have to go and outright disagree with you because you're talking nonsense.

 

Starting combat on less then 90% life is clear sign of inexperienced player - there always chance somebody pulls extra group or two. As for picking up loot - healers can do it just as well as anybody else but they usually already have more on their plate then other group members and it is important for healer to arrive to next combat site among first to get yourself correctly positioned before some reckless player slows you down by engaging early.

To make matters worse, you're taking that nonsense to a whole new level here.

 

Scared and inexperienced players heal up before next aggro. The rest of us do it on the move and without unneccessary delays.

Hmmm, I'll have to go and outright disagree with you because you're talking nonsense.

 

To make matters worse, you're taking that nonsense to a whole new level here.

 

Scared and inexperienced players heal up before next aggro. The rest of us do it on the move and without unneccessary delays.

 

Your confidence is completely unwarranted.

And your deduction skills are amazing. :*