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Why no TfB and EC SM in group finder?


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I would like to see OPS content in easiest mode, but at this point GF does not allow to queue for SM tfB and EC. I am kind of player that is not interested in HM or NMM, i just want to see,try and eventually kill those bosses on easiest level. Story modes are still too hard for unexperienced player going in pugs.

 

So could we get WOW-LFR version of all OPS, so that players who dont have guild/time/skill see all the content?

I would not even care if such "LFR" version drop Tionese or Columi armor, I would just want to see the content relatively easy way.

Atm, Im fully columi/rakata geared from HM FPs on 5 toons and I cant progress further with gearing/seeing rest of OPS, except for doing 1 HM fp a day for BH comms and dailys once a week. All that gear is earned thru GF meaning Im solo player ( no serious guild).

All this excitement with reaching lvl 50, gear up fast in HM FPs stops when you realize you cant do anything else. Then I let my 50s sit and roll new alt and level him up - got tired of it.

 

Cheers

Edited by Ghostius
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Bioware has already replied to this question before (it was in one of the Q&A blog posts a while ago). They gave two reasons:

  • SM EC (they did not include SM TFB because TFB was not released yet) requires a significantly more organized PUG than SM EV/KP. As people get good, Bioware will consider adding SM EC to the queue.
  • SM EC (& SM TFB) have a gear requirement of at least full Columi. Currently there is no way to profile characters that enter the group finder.

 

Until the two issues are met, no SM EC and SM TFB in the group finder. Want to do SM EC and/or SM TFB? Join a group that advertises recruitment in general chat and GOOD LUCK.

 

BROUGHT TO YOU BY CAPTAIN OBVIOUS

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requires a significantly more organized PUG than SM EV/KP. As people get good, Bioware will consider adding SM EC to the queue.

[

 

Yes, im aware of that and thats it - why woudnt BW go with WOW-LFR model (sorry for this comparison, but looks most similar to what I refer to).

Let just BW do this:

 

-people who just want to SEE endgame ops do NERFED-SM of all ops and give them Tionese or Columi for that

- people who want better loot and some challenge will do HMs anyway

- Hardcore people who want real challenge get their NMM anyway

 

Conclusion: Nerfing all story modes would make everyone happy .

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I agree that ec sm and tfb sm should be on gf, but nerfing them is a bad idea... if you just want to see the content, that's what youtube is for, they are easy enough already, there are just more mechanics involved. Adding them as tier 2 like lost island is for flashpoints would solve the problem of gear requirements, of course with a little good judgment on the part of the one queuing. Edited by Kawabonga
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cause its bad enough doing EV+ KP with people who dont have a clue.

 

This. Nothing like having to solo the puzzle in kp cause no one is willing to learn it or tank soa as a dps cause the tank doesn't know where to stand, or having to dps a maruader as the healer on the infernal council cause the dps sucks, or having to roll with three healers cause all of them refuse to respec to dps, or ...

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KP and EV can be forced through with unskilled anything and liberal puddle healing to patch up inevitable screwups in a pug.

 

Until Fabricator that is. The hardest boss in the tier 1 ops and crusher of pug groups.

 

Now imagine doing Operator IX with a pug group and since it is a pug group imagine the experience every time you try it with a new pug group.

 

None of the EC or TFB bosses can be explained in one short sentence like: Split into two groups, keep clicking right button, kill adds. That's why fabricator is hard for inexperienced groups because there's a lot more going on which can cause a fail.

 

 

Making it easier is another recycling of content which is a cheap way to bulk out the game, we are already doing 3! levels of difficulty for one operation at the moment which is the same zone over then over then over again.

 

A sightseeing mode would be ridiculous, we already have endgame geared players 3 manning the 8m story mode bosses in EC.

 

Trivialising all operations into a tank and spank mode with the odd red circle to avoid would be saddening.

Edited by Gyronamics
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EC and TfB drop rakata gear, thus should be tuned ti present a reasonable challenge for people in columi, and be quite hard at lower gear.

 

However, EV and KP is tuned for people that just ding 50. just grab your tionese gear from the console and get into EV or KP and clear it easily.

 

For EC or TfB to be on the group finder, at minima, a gear check should be implemented.

 

Then, there is the question of skills...

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I'm starting to think that EC SM should really be added to the group finder. The fights are *really* easy and forgiving now, and nothing in there is harder than Fabricator.

 

Actually, I still remember being disappointed when I learned that the best way to do fabricator, on any difficulty, was to only use one nozzle. Lame.

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I feel like they should add EC and TFB SM in group finder as a tier two, and only accessible after you've done both KP and EV SM. Theoretically, forcing people to do the other two first would make them pick up some sort of skill/understanding of how operations work.

 

Obviously this would still require some judgement, but I feel like it'd be better than the current system. Even if they just added EC this way.

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I feel like they should add EC and TFB SM in group finder as a tier two, and only accessible after you've done both KP and EV SM. Theoretically, forcing people to do the other two first would make them pick up some sort of skill/understanding of how operations work.

 

Obviously this would still require some judgement, but I feel like it'd be better than the current system. Even if they just added EC this way.

 

I think I like this idea.

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I feel like they should add EC and TFB SM in group finder as a tier two, and only accessible after you've done both KP and EV SM. Theoretically, forcing people to do the other two first would make them pick up some sort of skill/understanding of how operations work.

 

Obviously this would still require some judgement, but I feel like it'd be better than the current system. Even if they just added EC this way.

 

I'm sorry, but if you think that this would help them you are pretty naive.

Also what if they don't get a reasonable amount of gear from those two Ops and then jump straight into EC?

 

You can carry maybe one slacker in a PUG, but 2-3? Impossible...

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To the OP. what server are you on? I under stand due to time constraints you might have a difficult time finding a group. But I have to ask, are you in a guild or have made friends? When I was first learning end game content I would go with the guild or ask friends if I could go with their guild to learn a new op. usually they were helpful, sometimes it did not work out. I realize that GF is a handy tool but I don't think a GF PUG is the best solution for you. It's a MMO, so hit up some friends and get them to take you along :)
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I'm sorry, but if you think that this would help them you are pretty naive.

Also what if they don't get a reasonable amount of gear from those two Ops and then jump straight into EC?

 

You can carry maybe one slacker in a PUG, but 2-3? Impossible...

 

Do I think it's a perfect fix? No. But it's not just gear, it's also experience working with a group and taking instructions. At the very least, I still think this is better than what we currently have. And if you feel you're getting too many baddies, then do what people do when they want a fast EV or KP SM: Find a group in general.

 

Sure a lot of people will end up just using general, but there are a lot of advantages to group finder, not to get off topic.

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To the OP. what server are you on? I under stand due to time constraints you might have a difficult time finding a group. But I have to ask, are you in a guild or have made friends? When I was first learning end game content I would go with the guild or ask friends if I could go with their guild to learn a new op. usually they were helpful, sometimes it did not work out. I realize that GF is a handy tool but I don't think a GF PUG is the best solution for you. It's a MMO, so hit up some friends and get them to take you along :)

 

Being in a raid guild is not suitable for me, been playing wow for 5 years in raid guild got me fed up. I just cant make my weekly schedule around raid times anymore, its too pressing on real life and feels like a job. Same with friends - all of them I know in game are not interested in raiding and/or are in same position as I am - they just dont want/cant schedule thier life around guild raid times. Thats why GF is perfect - raid when you want to. Thats also the reason why I still got wow sub - I log on twice a week, do all 3 raids and Im happy. Otherwise I would close my sub and say goodbye to wow.

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Do I think it's a perfect fix? No. But it's not just gear, it's also experience working with a group and taking instructions. At the very least, I still think this is better than what we currently have. And if you feel you're getting too many baddies, then do what people do when they want a fast EV or KP SM: Find a group in general.

 

Sure a lot of people will end up just using general, but there are a lot of advantages to group finder, not to get off topic.

 

The problem is that there is little to no effort needed to complete EV or KP.

Denova is a huge step-up even after the nerfs.

Most SM-Ops PUGs on my server actually refuse to use TS or anything and it's simply too hard for a random-group to complete it otherwise in my opinion(seriously even EC HM is a joke if you have TS and are in a competent group).

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As nice as that might sound for people who don't want to guild or people with more then 1 50 and don't want to split into two guilds, there are a few problems that I see....

 

Unlike when guilds randomly do SM KP/EV and need a dps or two (and just pick some up) I'm not sure any guild would use the GF to PUG TFB/EC. That being said ... You could get all 8 people in full Columi with no knowledge of the any of the fights. That would be, even with the nerf to EC, a wipe prone group.

 

OR it could become like LI HM ... Players in BH or better gear that are just bored will boot players that don't know it or don't have anything better than Columi. (Or those that want speed runs).

 

Lastly, in the end, you'd probably still get people spamming general for more people to queue up as a group instead of wanting to pug cuz they want to check gear.

 

...Personally, Having done TFB/EC SM on a dps/tank .... I doubt I would use the GF for them if they were to put them in ... :( I'd love to say different, but with the amount of times I've had to leave KP/EV SM because people do not listen... I doubt I would want to sit through wipes with the same people that can't understand: DON'T RUN INTO THE NEXT ROOM! (Speaking of KP SM with the Hunter Droid Rooms).

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^ This. I would never use GF for SM EC or TfB (unless going in with a premade group for the GF daily). I doubt people in my guild or any other raiding guild in my server would use it either.

 

Sure, GF is not for ppl who have organized guilds and can follow guild raid schedule. But its great for guildless ppl or for ppl who just cant find right guild for ever reason they have. And in the begining of the post, I also said those 2 ops should be nerfed for use with GF.

And I bet everyone in organized raid guilds would come with alts in such nerfed EC/TfB to gear up alts when they not raiding on mains.

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Fair enough, but your suggestion raises a further question. Assuming finite resources, do you think that nerfing SM EC and TfB has a higher priority than other projects? For instance, does nerfing these raids have higher priority than developing more tier 2 flashpoiint content? I certainly don't think so.

 

I guess I'm fine with Bioware nerfing the ops, as long as it was pretty far down the priority list. If anything, I'd rather see them make current content MORE difficult for greater rewards. I think most people are getting bored of what's currently available.

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Fair enough, but your suggestion raises a further question. Assuming finite resources, do you think that nerfing SM EC and TfB has a higher priority than other projects? For instance, does nerfing these raids have higher priority than developing more tier 2 flashpoiint content? I certainly don't think so.

 

I guess I'm fine with Bioware nerfing the ops, as long as it was pretty far down the priority list. If anything, I'd rather see them make current content MORE difficult for greater rewards. I think most people are getting bored of what's currently available.

 

Im not a developer and I dont know much about programming, but changing health/dmg taken/armor/dmg done from bosses should not be a difficult or time-consuming task.

Also, "most people" argument is really subjective one and I always avoid talk about what "most ppl" want. People from raiding guilds think "most ppl" are people from their vincinity - thier guild who often share same view. But there is other "side of the fence", which are invisible to raiding guilds players.

Again, im sorry I have to bring it again, but LFR model from wow had huge success and is win-win scenario. Raiding crowd could come with alts to gear them up and "other side of the fence" (socials, guildless ppl, less skilled ppl, noobs ) could experience the content.

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You have to realize that the problem with EC and TFB even in SM isn't the damage-output of the bosses, it's the mechanics that will kill PUGs.

 

This^

 

Was talking to some guildies about a nerf that coninsides with one they did on a raid in wow.... Unless they ....

 

1. Remove 90% of all Zorn and Toths mechanics (Basicly just a tank and spank) or pugs will have a hard time with it.

2. Firebrand/Stormcaller would need Incenerate/Double Destruction removed and probably the Shield phase nerf even more as well.

3. The Mindsweeper.... Don't even get me started.... 90% nerf there too (No assassin droids/no cleave) Good luck on getting someone that can do the puzzle or willing to do it.

4. Kephass.... ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!! They would have to remove 80% of that fight for sure. (Bomber time up'ed for sure if anything.)

 

PLEASE don't even get me started with TFB SM (Operator 9/Counsel/TFB Itself)

 

Short of being able to RUN THRU the operation without killing anything, there isn't much in TFB/EC you can nerf ... WITHOUT killing the mechanics... Even if you cut all the bosses health by half, you still have mechanics that you have to execute...

 

AND THAT is our point ... MOST pugs don't listen ... The number of times that I've wiped on Hunter Droid Rooms because people don't listen is uncountable... I've seen pugs flat out SAY that they joined the GF because someone will carry them ...

 

You would have to nerf them to point of just completely tank and spank.... You probably think that is fine .... but what happens when you want to do TFB HM or EC HM? You WON"T be able to because you wont know EC SM NORMAL mechanics.

 

I know not wanting to be in a guild and put your life around it, my husband is the same way, and would probably love the idea as well, since he hardcore raided in wow, but ... they would have to nerf it so bad that it isn't even funny anymore and would probably be a huge waste of time to go in there and REMOVE Mechanics for the sake of letting pugs do it without worry.

 

Nerfing HP/Damange wont do much if you can't execute mechanics.

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