Then, please tell me, why are so many, countless in fact, books trying to tell Authors how to write]/i] better books ?

 

If the Reader would set the tone, then these books wouldn't be neccessary, because no-one would need to put any effort into writing it. It'd the Reader who'd make a horror novel, a love novel, or an action novel out of it, no ?

The reader sets the tone of voice used by the person talking when it is a communication. Authors get to tell you exactly what tone of voice their characters use. He said mockingly.

Just think of the following sentence. "I never said you took the money."

Without the context of which word was emphasized it could mean several different things.

"I NEVER said you took the money." sounds like a solid statement but "I never SAID you took the money." could imply that information was provided about the money without verbal communication.

Now since the person writing the answers did not state on what words they put emphasis, the reader is the one who assigns the voice and the tone in these cases.

The reader sets the tone of voice used by the person talking when it is a communication. Authors get to tell you exactly what tone of voice their characters use. He said mockingly.

 

Just think of the following sentence. "I never said you took the money."

 

Without the context of which word was emphasized it could mean several different things.

 

"I NEVER said you took the money." sounds like a solid statement but "I never SAID you took the money." could imply that information was provided about the money without verbal communication.

 

Now since the person writing the answers did not state on what words they put emphasis, the reader is the one who assigns the voice and the tone in these cases.

And that is the writers fault for making the reader decipher what they are trying to say.

Sage/sorc are hybrids.

Shadow/sins are hybrids.

Op/Scoundrels are hybrids.

Jugg/Guards are hybrids.

VG/PTs are hybrids.

Merc/Commandos are hybrids.

 

Mara/Sent are NOT hybrids

Sniper/slinger are NOT hybrids.

 

If you look at the above list, Sage/Sorc do more DPS than every other hybrid except Merc/Commandos.

 

I really don't understand what is so hard about this.

 

Did you seriously just try to tell me that Operatives do more DPS than Sorcs?

And of mercs, sorcs or ops which one has the best middle and worst survival? Which one has the best middle and worst dps? Any shock that the best of one is the worst at the other and the middle is.... well in the middle?

I agree with the bits hilighted in yellow - that it is a nice goal to strive for but really hard to achieve in practice. But for the ones you quoted (resource management, lack of survivability, etc) those are absolutely true for both PvP and PvE. However at certain times certain aspects may appear amplified in PvP or PvE, but they apply equally to both.

 

As for listing serious examples I don't think I can, however in the early game do you not remember seeing PvPers complain about "OMG Sorcs are too powerful!!!" and virtually every "class balance" since this game launched has resulted in a nerf - either less damage dealt, less effective/shorter ranged abilities, more damage taken, lower HP, or a combination of all.

 

Whether this is due to PvP players complaining I can't say. However it is clear that BWs supposed changes for PvP (almost) always is to the detriment of PvE as far as Sorcs are concerned.

PvPers complain about other classes all the time because it's all perception - some valid complaints, some not valid, that's why I discounted what they ask for and specifically asked what kind of class changes people PLAYING the class are asking for that would be detrimental to PvE (or PvP)? We're talking about CLASS REP questions...not trolling in the PvP forums.

Hmmm...I'm not so sure I agree with you at all on your last part either. The Commando/Merc Interrupt they received was a "PvP" buff in your opinion? That was 100% for PvE!!! In fact, it was probably the biggest nerf to PvP the class had (until 2.0) because it gave all their mirrored enemies the same ability. How about their in-combat rez? That's almost never used in PvP...that was 100% PvE. Electronet is also a PvE buff imo because of its cooldown. It's great for PvP, but the timer on it makes it of minimal value. It was a slight DPS boost for PvE that Commando needed, without overpowering the class. It's best for boss fights where you can use it a few times during the fight...in PvP, it's effective, but the cooldown makes it have less value than it should.

And that is the writers fault for making the reader decipher what they are trying to say.

Oh no, couldn't be the reader needing to take some responsibility for taking their own dislike for the answer and assigning a tone of voice to enforce that. (he said sarcastically)

And that is the writers fault for making the reader decipher what they are trying to say.

This is a gaming forum. I appreciate what you're saying, but this isn't meant to be a place for authors to hang out...these are gamers thoughts...don't expect more than game chatter in them.

And of mercs, sorcs or ops which one has the best middle and worst survival? Which one has the best middle and worst dps? Any shock that the best of one is the worst at the other and the middle is.... well in the middle?

Of those three I would say Merc is probably the best at both, Sorc is middle on DPS and last on Survival, and Op is last on DPS and middle on survival. But you also have to take into account just how far ahead Sorc DPS is over Op DPS. They are not even comparable.

It is not a simple question, and the answer is not a simple one. You are welcome to your opinions on it, I am just tired of listening to people ranting on and on just because the devs don't agree with them.

Oh no, couldn't be the reader needing to take some responsibility for taking their own dislike for the answer and assigning a tone of voice to enforce that. (he said sarcastically)

There are many ways to offset the reader misunderstanding what you write; It is incumbent upon the writer to ensure this.

Of those three I would say Merc is probably the best at both, Sorc is middle on DPS and last on Survival, and Op is last on DPS and middle on survival. But you also have to take into account just how far ahead Sorc DPS is over Op DPS. They are not even comparable.

 

It is not a simple question, and the answer is not a simple one. You are welcome to your opinions on it, I am just tired of listening to people ranting on and on just because the devs don't agree with them.

ops never did recover from their early game nerf to their burst damage

There are many ways to offset the reader misunderstanding what you write; It is incumbent upon the writer to ensure this.

Actually, it is incumbent for a writer to clarify in the face of a misunderstanding, IF it is clear there is a valid misunderstanding. Keyword ---> "valid".

It is incumbent upon the reader to not read more into something then is actually there.... and an author has little responsibility for that as the reader owns the fact that they are projecting.

If I write a short story and you read it and it triggers all kinds of emotional buttons for you.. I as the author have no responsibility for your emotional buttons.... YOU DO. I as an author cannot force you to read my writings.. that's a choice on your part and how you react to my writing is also a choice on your part.

There are many ways to offset the reader misunderstanding what you write; It is incumbent upon the writer to ensure this.

"Writer" vs. "Poster"

I'm sure there are some phenomenally great writers amongst us, but there is no requirement to be one to post here, nor is there any expectation that someone is. Read the posts for what they are...if you don't get it, ask for clarification.

Hey folks!

 

I apologize for the delay in response. In retrospect, I think us posting class top 3 answers on Fridays may be a poor decision. What that unfortunately creates is a situation where we can post answers and then at some point, need to go home. Leaving all of you on the forums to our silence, which is certainly not optimal.

 

Also, I know for Courtney the end of last week was a hectic one for her role on the team which made it difficult to take an active part in the thread. For myself, I wasn't in the country, I was in Germany for our Cantina event. Excuses aside, it was poorly timed on our behalf and I want to make sure we avoid that. I would rather us hold the answers for a day or two than kind of "drop the mic" on you after we answer.

 

This kind of thing is a great learning experience for us on what we can do to improve the class rep system. In both regards to you guys, the forum users, and us on the BioWare side in how we present information. I know this round didn't exactly make everyone throw a parade but it helps in making sure that we make this system better. At the end of the day I think we can all agree that getting a good dialog going about class issues is a good thing for everyone.

 

-eric

So where is the dialog. I posted in another thread that tk sage can be shut out of casts thus taking away 1 of our roots to kite. Mental alacrity doesn't help much cause we still can be stunned chained. Does your team view this as a issue? Or do u even know about it?

Right. The overwhelming negative response from the Sorcerer (and sage) players that play the class every day is clearly a sense of entitlement and they have no idea how to play their class.

The sense of entitlement ----> believing that players dictate the class, not Bioware.. AND then melting down over it in the forum upon realization that the belief is not true.

FACT: Sorc and Sage are hybrid classes.. and as such will never be top DPS.

FICTION: that the above fact will be any different when players attack Bioware because they don't like the answer.

As for me.. when I want to play a hybrid caster type.. I play a Sorc. When I want to play a pure DPS.. I play a Sniper, a Sent, or a Mara. I play a class the way it was designed, and with that expectation in mind. You should try it.

As for me.. when I want to play a hybrid caster type.. I play a Sorc. When I want to play a pure DPS.. I play a Sniper, a Sent, or a Mara. I play a class the way it was designed, and with that expectation in mind. You should try it.

Yea, except that goes against their (until now apparently) design philosophy of no hybrid tax.

It's great that you're able to flip flop in tune with the devs, though

The sense of entitlement ----> believing that players dictate the class, not Bioware.. AND then melting down over it in the forum upon realization that the belief is not true.

 

FACT: Sorc and Sage are hybrid classes.. and as such will never be top DPS.

 

FICTION: that the above fact will be any different when players attack Bioware because they don't like the answer.

 

As for me.. when I want to play a hybrid caster type.. I play a Sorc. When I want to play a pure DPS.. I play a Sniper, a Sent, or a Mara. I play a class the way it was designed, and with that expectation in mind. You should try it.

You dont seem to know the difference between hybrid and advance class

Bioware is obviously showing favortism here you get immediate responses on a little perceived sorc issue yet peope quit playing assassins after providing many parses and examples proving they suck and dont even get a peep from bioware this is the main reason most sins quit

So, Andryah, you think it is cool to answers the questions regarding class problems from players with dismissal that basically says "Learn to play, noobs"?

Unlike you.. I don't read into something that which is not written. Please link where the devs called us noobs.

As to "class problems".... I believe all classes have issues, some more then others. That is the nature of character classes in every MMO I have every played to be honest. As is the immature radical behavior of some players in forum discussion as well (which is not in any way a discredit to those that do conduct reasoned discussion about classes in this forum). Some are attributable to needs for adjustments by the devs.. AND.... some are intended by design and we as players accept them as part of playing the class.

This entire thread topic is a conflation response to some players not receiving the answers they desired about their class. Nothing more. The actual discussion about class abilities and deficiencies belongs in the class forums.

I do however agree with Eric that they have to be mindful to not post something like responses to players on class issues and then go home for the weekend. They need to do it early on a weekday and then stay engaged in the thread through the week. Which won't cure the ragefesting and entitlement.. but it does give ample opportunity to stay in dialog rather then be silent for a full weekend.

Yea, except that goes against their (until now apparently) design philosophy of no hybrid tax.

 

It's great that you're able to flip flop in tune with the devs, though

I play a class for it's strenths and play style. It's why I have different classes for different play preference.. as I don't choose to play the same class and play style 7/24.

I have no comment or opinion on a "hybrid" tax or no hybrid tax on the part of devs. It's a pointless discussion designed to create argument IMO.. as there is always a trade-off in hybrid classes in MMOs in my experience.

I would rather us hold the answers for a day or two than kind of "drop the mic" on you after we answer.

 

This kind of thing is a great learning experience for us on what we can do to improve the class rep system. In both regards to you guys, the forum users, and us on the BioWare side in how we present information. I know this round didn't exactly make everyone throw a parade but it helps in making sure that we make this system better. At the end of the day I think we can all agree that getting a good dialog going about class issues is a good thing for everyone.

 

-eric

Eric thank you for this update. Agree that not having your team available for immediate response does put them in catch up mode on Monday and 500 posts later.

As for the Feedback from the user community on Sage/Sorc. Some PENT up issues around Balance that many folks expected to see some sort of explanation/resolution. A large amount of people feel pretty strongly we have a balance issue no matter what DEV team weighted utility metrics are stating. The response (poorly written) was just the spark the exploded the powder keg of upset Sage/Sorc community waiting for months to see our class fixed.

For the record.. when you get Music videos, new catch phrases and even quoted responses.. you MIGHT just have a PROBLEM with the class. Your team really needs to take a second look at the issues at hand.

Please DO NOT make us "OP" but at least look at putting our class in line with our peer classes.

as there is always a trade-off in hybrid classes in MMOs in my experience.

This has basically been the crux of my entire argument in this thread. There HAS to be some trade off. Classes have to have different strengths and weaknesses.

If you don't like one class' trade offs, maybe you should find a different class that is more to your liking?

Please DO NOT make us "OP" but at least look at putting our class in line with our peer classes.

You are already right in the middle in terms of DPS. Not everyone can be #1 and someone has to be last. Right now you are right in the middle, so asking to be 'in line' kinda falls on deaf ears.

The sense of entitlement ----> believing that players dictate the class, not Bioware.. AND then melting down over it in the forum upon realization that the belief is not true.

 

FACT: Sorc and Sage are hybrid classes.. and as such will never be top DPS.

 

FICTION: that the above fact will be any different when players attack Bioware because they don't like the answer.

 

As for me.. when I want to play a hybrid caster type.. I play a Sorc. When I want to play a pure DPS.. I play a Sniper, a Sent, or a Mara. I play a class the way it was designed, and with that expectation in mind. You should try it.

LOL you have absolutley no idea what you are talking about do you? I mean have you even read what you typed?

When a DPS spec is built regardless of where theres a tank/healer option the DPS Spec is jsut that DPS not healer/dps spec. When you have a DPS char all dps specs across all classes re suppose to be no better than the other. Thats why there is class balancing that every MMO tries to keep. Difference is as of late Bioware hasnt been actively tackling that.

You should not be able to do more dps on a sniper or maurader than a sorcerer specced into dps.

LOL you have absolutley no idea what you are talking about do you? I mean have you even read what you typed?

When a DPS spec is built regardless of where theres a tank/healer option the DPS Spec is jsut that DPS not healer/dps spec. When you have a DPS char all dps specs across all classes re suppose to be no better than the other. Thats why there is class balancing that every MMO tries to keep. Difference is as of late Bioware hasnt been actively tackling that.

 

You should not be able to do more dps on a sniper or maurader than a sorcerer specced into dps.

The dev answer to this, and my answer to this are that if you can do the same DPS as someone who can't heal, but you can heal, don't you have a significant advantage over them?