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Request to Bioware regarding Taral V - HM


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Cool story, bro, really cool! The only problem here is that you are the selfish brat here. We understand you have gotten all the drops you need from that said Flashpoint but some of the people in the random created group may have not and that's why clearing all the bosses, which in these instances are the ones to kill to get the drops, would be very nice for the group. Simply thinking and shouting "I don't need any drops from here so skip,run,spacebar, skip, run, spacebar so I can save 5-10 minutes of my time" makes you only look like a childish and selfish jerk. Those instances are for 4 people groups, they AREN'T just for YOU. So if you have that big problems clearing all the bosses in Flashpoints do us people a favor and quit your sub, or atleast do those "run, skip.spacebar"-runs with your guildies so you won't ruin the game for other people who actually want to play the game as it is designed to be played.

 

You are in no way to judge how people should play, you are in no position to force your gaming choices on other people. If Bioware agreed with your pitiful logic they would have made the bosses unskippable a long time ago. Alas, that is not so. So long as they are skippable a group of people will skip them. Not everyone is playing this game for your imaginary group of people who want full runs (No one, ever asked me to do full runs, and I did perhaps hundreds of HM FP ones so far, if they probably kindly asked I wouldn't mind unless I have urgent business)

This isn't just about you, get off your high horse.

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You are in no way to judge how people should play, you are in no position to force your gaming choices on other people. If Bioware agreed with your pitiful logic they would have made the bosses unskippable a long time ago. Alas, that is not so. So long as they are skippable a group of people will skip them. Not everyone is playing this game for your imaginary group of people who want full runs (No one, ever asked me to do full runs, and I did perhaps hundreds of HM FP ones so far, if they probably kindly asked I wouldn't mind unless I have urgent business)

This isn't just about you, get off your high horse.

 

Yeah it's not about me, but it certainly is not about you either! As you may have noticed I said you can skip bosses if you want but I would recommend you to do that with your guildies as random created groups may have people who want to do the bosses. And I'm quite sure most people expect and assume to kill bosses when they do FPs, Heroics or stuff like that. The bosses have been put into the game for a reason, they are there because of the challenge for the group.

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OP, first off, nothing is stopping you from finding a guild/friends who want to do it your way.

 

Second, even if you are a new 50 and undergeared, fast comm runs are still the most efficient way for you to gear up, especially now that Bioware is handing out free Tionese to every level 50. This is equivalent gear of most of the drops in HMs, the end bosses drop Columi, but other than that, you get the gear just from hitting level 50 now, so really there is no reason NOT to skip them.

 

Third, don't be selfish. Just because you want it one way doesn't give you the right to try to force it on others.

 

EDIT: Also, ASK YOUR GROUP! Most people are reasonable enough that if it is someone's first time, and they are polite about it, the group will slow down for a new person. Polite communication goes a long way.

Edited by Icebergy
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Second, even if you are a new 50 and undergeared, fast comm runs are still the most efficient way for you to level up,

 

Wrong, it is not the fastest way regarding what the OP writes.

 

He speaks about a bosskill in Taral V that takes around 5 minutes to do. Two of my characters got their columni gloves on the first run for example. According to your statement it takes shorter time to get gloves from comm runs then killing a boss that takes 5 minutes, that is not logical at all.

 

Besides if you get the gloves you can get another piece by using comms so in any way, killing the boss for those that needs can shorten the time to get good gear considerably.

 

The designflaw to be able to bypass a final boss that drops columni and be forced to beg the team to kill the boss is gamebreaking.

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Yeah it's not about me, but it certainly is not about you either! As you may have noticed I said you can skip bosses if you want but I would recommend you to do that with your guildies as random created groups may have people who want to do the bosses. And I'm quite sure most people expect and assume to kill bosses when they do FPs, Heroics or stuff like that. The bosses have been put into the game for a reason, they are there because of the challenge for the group.

 

I never once claimed, like you, that there is only a single way to do flashpoints with pugs. I have presented multiple choices, just like how the game mechaanics present them. How do you manage to think that I think it's all about me is really beyond me at this point. You are the one who is saying my way or ****, I am the one who is saying no there are several ways to go about it. As I said, and as many people said beforehand, communication is key. Ask politely and you may get groups to do full runs. Please stop thinking at this point that your method and choices of gameplay are the only righteous way to go about it. That's just absurd and if you don't see it, there's nothing I can do or say to you, just stay far away from me.

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That's just absurd and if you don't see it, there's nothing I can do or say to you, just stay far away from me.

 

Oh don't worry we won't play together because I'm not on your server. And believe me, if we were you would already be on my ignore list ;):p

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  • 2 weeks later...

What I find disheartening is epitomized by this thread. I have a new Shadow tank spec. I just hit 50 this weekend. I haven't dared step into a HM FP because I am NEW to tanking in a group situation. People from group finder have just been rude and impatient when I have run the first 3 FPs at their normal level. I quit running FP's during leveling because I didn't want to deal with that. Those first runs, at level, saw DPS running ahead and pulling, then screaming why don't you get them off me?? I am not a bad player, at least I don't think I am. I ran all 3 of the Belsavis H2+ dailies last night, after hitting 50, completed them easily and didn't die, solo. I just tend to be methodical and enjoy working WITH people, not pushing, taunting, insulting along the way. And... I like doing the content as I go thru... PLUS, I don't know all these 'SKIPS' and as a tank.... I am kind of expected to be out front...

 

Its easy to say GET A GUILD. Is that to say that the group finder is useless to anyone not in a guild? Is it only a tool to get into groups where we can be disrespectful and rude to other players because we have no connection to them? If someone were as rude to a guildie as I have seen in PUG's.... the rude folks would be gkicked without a second thought.

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If you are new to tanking and uncertain of your ability, then you shouldn't be running hm fps. Start out with the sm ones. Generally people take things a lot slower and actually want to kill all the mobs for xp. That's where you want to start, then if you are still uncomfortable, pick and chose flashpoints... there are quite a few where it's hard to skip trash.

 

As far as dps running ahead... just open with a nice "hello everyone... by the way, you pull it, you tank it."

 

Main thing is, be straight forward and honest with the group... don't run in acting like you know everything if you don't. Tell them "hey, I'm new to tanking, can someone else show me the path and try not to pull?" I've found most of the people to be very accommodating in this game if you give them a chance to be.

 

The other thing to remember is you are playing a game for your enjoyment, but so is everyone else. The majority of the people I've seen don't enjoy doing the story in flashpoints... for the most part they don't really enjoy doing flashpoints in general, but the bh comms are nice. If you have certain preferences that place you in the minority of players, then find a guild that caters to that.

 

I enjoy flashpoints with guildies when we try to break things... last night I did LI HM and managed to down sav-rak without him using one smash. Our Vanguard tank specced dps on Dr Lorrick so we could down him before he used 1 kolto tank. That is what I find fun... being able to break the mechanics in a fp or op, the complete opposite of the OP.

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I have never been in Taral V when it was not asked on the last boss to kill or skp. I have also never been in a group that did not kill when someone asked. It isn't my fault that it isn't kill if people don't speak up. I always say the samething on every boss "don't care." Because I don't care, nothing is going to drop that I could use, but I am more than willing to kill it if anyone in the group wants the gear or just wants to kill it.

 

If the rest of the group don't want to kill it, then finish the coverstation and I will go down and kill him with you and my companion after the rest of the group leaves.

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Wrong, it is not the fastest way regarding what the OP writes.

 

He speaks about a bosskill in Taral V that takes around 5 minutes to do. Two of my characters got their columni gloves on the first run for example. According to your statement it takes shorter time to get gloves from comm runs then killing a boss that takes 5 minutes, that is not logical at all.

 

Besides if you get the gloves you can get another piece by using comms so in any way, killing the boss for those that needs can shorten the time to get good gear considerably.

 

The designflaw to be able to bypass a final boss that drops columni and be forced to beg the team to kill the boss is gamebreaking.

 

Way to pick and choose one sentence out of my post. If you had quoted the entire post, you would see that I addressed this.

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The opinions being discussed in here is a HUGE deal for me. Many times have I gone into a flashpoint, tried to communicate, and then people do whatever they want, such as fighting every single mob or not spacebarring because "that's what FPs are for" they say after the fact, after not bothering to ask what we are there for.

 

But the moment you enter a group you are a TEAM, it is not just your priorities and wants that matter. I find it exceptionally rude to go in with a "my way or the highway" attitude. It's generally tanks that do it because they know they are the hardest to replace.

 

The proper etiquette, if you have a particular want out of the FP, is to state it at the beginning and ASK the group. More often than not they are willing to accomodate. I absolutely cannot stand the players who do not do this. I've always been willing to help out a group if they wanted to do more than to just get their comms as quick as possible, but it rubs me the wrong way to NO END when they don't simply ask. I cannot emphasize how rude it is not to just ask.

 

Rudeness is not indicative of importance. Rudeness is indicative of itself. Nothing more.

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this is an interesting conversation because really there are 2 sides that are not wrong. As a healer i go through the flow and ride with it. At the same time I also only get on one or 2 times a week normally. So I will queue random for the comms and then queue just Taral V and Ilum because they are 10-15min runs I can use to get my weekly done.

 

I have done many of these flashpoints a few dozen times each, and I will say there are time when I wonder what it would be like to clear an entire flashpoint, and I mean every trash mob and boss for fun... and then I think about how long that will take....

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I don't really get all those fresh 50 saying calling other "selfish, child etc" for skipping boss. "Playing game as intended" - i am sorry my intended are my own :rolleyes:

 

Seriously, this is a mmo, intereact with your group, ask them that you need gear and need to fight those boss. If 3 out of 4 want to skip, you are the selfish one if you want to force them to your playstyle, otherwise, what's your problem then :) ? For me, unless i am super busy, i have no trouble fighting 1 or 2 more boss if you ask.

 

I dinged 50 in May when there are no group finder around, and as a mdps it seem impossible for me to get into any HM FP at all ( ppl prefer to do it with their guildies ), but instead of crying on forum i found ppl to form a group, then we become friends, then we made our own guild and now we are all happy in full 63 gear :cool:.

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Are you seriously posting this on the forums? Now it will get removed. :p

 

It will anyway. I've started seeing people quit any FP not Taral V because they want a speed run. It's so disheartening, I've stopped running them. Don't need to loot, and don't mind taking my time on the BH comms.

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There are two sides of the coin, lets look at the other point of view.

Icestar and I have had words on this HM FP's before.

1) No the final boss in T5 should not be skippable, but it isn't game breaking just a oversight by the Devs.

2) Only the giant droid boss and the final boss drop columi quality.The droid might drop a columi implant or a exotech piece. The sole guarnteed columi piece is the end token.

3) Since tionese if free to all lvl50's now, what is the point fighting the other bosses? A fully equiped tionese party will probly wipe on the first boss and the bounus boss. Is the extra frustrtion in the instance and the repair bills worth it?

4) This is thread is great for fresh 50's but what about geared 50's? The guys who are doing this to buy hazmaat implants- since the 300+ black hole coms a piece, we are grinding this for the 100th time for the coms.

5) Why are you even doing HM's FP??? Between the free tionese and free MK-2 recruit you can run a SM OPS, simple fast way to get gear.

6) ......and after you have run a few story mode ops and ran SM astation and Sm denova you have gotten rakata or better, then you run HM's for coms......Then the people you were just complaining about, you yourself just became one of them:)

Edited by toyfanatic
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4) This is thread is great for fresh 50's but what about geared 50's? The guys who are doing this to buy hazmaat implants- since the 300+ black hole coms a piece, we are grinding this for the 100th time for the coms.

5) Why are you even doing HM's FP??? Between the free tionese and free MK-2 recruit you can run a SM OPS, simple fast way to get gear.

6) ......and after you have run a few story mode ops and ran SM astation and Sm denova you have gotten rakata or better, then you run HM's for coms......Then the people you were just complaining about, you yourself just became one of them:)

Bioware really should expand the group finder to cater for better geared players. Currently it's designed for fresh 50s to do entry-level endgame content, so yes, they're right to run HM FPs in their Tionese gear. The decision to give BH comms as reward from the same HM FPs was incredibly stupid, as it entices the geared 50s to queue as well. When these two types of people are put in the same group, it creates friction and results in this kind of threads on the forums.

 

There was some kind of message from the developers that they'd like to add the harder operations to the group finder, but are currently unable to do it because there's no indication that they need more than entry-level gear. If and when this gets implemented, I suggest a nightmare mode is added to flashpoints and the BH comm rewards moved to it. HM FPs can then give columi comms, with a possible exception of Lost Island, which is tier 2.

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There are two sides of the coin, lets look at the other point of view.

Icestar and I have had words on this HM FP's before.

1) No the final boss in T5 should not be skippable, but it isn't game breaking just a oversight by the Devs.

 

If you refer to my other thread about gamebreaking so yes, skipping bosses that players really want to do is gamebreaking. It is content that some want to experience and to have someone scream and start a fight with you for simply want to kill a boss that drops something you need is a negative experience hence gamebreaking, but I already have a thread about that.

 

They have placed the final boss far away without game mecanics related to completing the flashpoint, I am not sure it is a oversight, I think they simply did not expected players to skip bosses and avoid mobs like they do today.

Edited by Icestar
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4) This is thread is great for fresh 50's but what about geared 50's? The guys who are doing this to buy hazmaat implants- since the 300+ black hole coms a piece, we are grinding this for the 100th time for the coms.

 

Doing it 100 times doesn't entitle anyone to skip every boss in the flashpoint, I know I'm no angel myself when I say this as I've skipped a few bosses just for smooth runs or to avoid arguments myself but there's a fine line between avoiding a few mobs and exploiting the game entirely.

 

I was shocked the other week when I actually saw someone just run up the ramp and talk to the NPC as even if I skipped the odd miniboss or mob but I've always done the main boss in a flashpoint and found it disgusting that someone could just skip to the end like that, this sort of behaviour is nothing short of exploiting and in other games you'd be looking at a ban for glitching/cheating rather than the rewards.

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I was shocked the other week when I actually saw someone just run up the ramp and talk to the NPC as even if I skipped the odd miniboss or mob but I've always done the main boss in a flashpoint and found it disgusting that someone could just skip to the end like that, this sort of behaviour is nothing short of exploiting and in other games you'd be looking at a ban for glitching/cheating rather than the rewards.

 

I will meet you and Icestar halfway.

I agree that it is horriable that people find ways to exploit the game content. I personally don't have issues with not skipping bosses. The sad thing is some people do only speed runs and behave badly if you ask to kill a boss. In reference to my earlier comments, now that what most non-final bosses drop isn't an upgrade to most players( that is they took the free lvl 50 gear). Here is my perspective, I don't see it as game greaking if to not fight a boss all you must do is run around it. The Dev's possiably didn't care to set obstacles to make them required. Or they didn't expect people to spend untold hours exploiting terrain glitches to avoid all encounters. I know it might sound counter intuitive but I do agree when people flat out cheat to skip stuff it does perterb me. We play this game to have fun, not to deal with people acting like three year olds. The post where some one said ask at the start what the consensus is , is a good point. Also play with like minded individuals, that should cut down n the drama.

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As a tank, I have no issues skipping or fighting any boss in game. I actually prefer to fight the boss unless I'm short on time or we have had wipes. With that being said, if you ask the group, I will gladly fight the boss for a loot drop as long as the consensus is yes.

 

If the consensus is no, I may just to do it to annoy the ones who said no :p. People need to understand that not all of us have been playing this game since last year and it turns people away from the game when you make it a hassle for them. People are already ***** in this game as it is, why play with a 'community' that doesn't act like a community and try to help members of the community? Bad enough the mindset of most people in this game is "me first".

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It only feels gamebreaking to those who wish to kill the said boss, so it is a subjective thing. I for one woud support skipping where it's available trash, boss whatever. It all depends on your aim in being in that flashpoint. If Bioware thinks this is in any way an exploit then they will take measures to prevent this phenomena. The key matter is communication still.
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