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Is there a common courtesy thing in-game?


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Okay, this is something that's got me thinking about just soloing flashpoints. I recently created a SW and leveled him up to an 11 Juggernaut, and did the Black Talon flashpoint with someone who was clearly a new player (from his inactions to his actions and chat commentary).

 

Now me, even when I was a new player, I would pass on equipment drops that had nothing to do with my class. In this run, mainly Jug equipment dropped, and everytime he won the roll with greed. This guy was playing a Marauder, making the equipment useless to him. I finally got a piece (shield generator) and was called a tool for doing so. I confronted the guy in chat, and suffice to say I found out he was doing the flashpoint and getting the pieces solely for the purpose of selling them. We eventually had a duel (his challenge, my win) and I placed him on my ignore list.

 

But because I've done my best to extend a courtesy to other players by tapping pass on all non-class equipment drops, I guess I thought this was a common courtesy. Now please note, this was one of the only flashpoints I've had a bad experience with, and the only time I haven't had a guild by the time I reached the Imperial Fleet. I recognize this is probably not the average occurrence, but this was the first time where my class was actually affected. (I've seen troopers grab Smug equip, BH snap up SI equip, etc.)

 

Anyways, this is technically just a bit of a rant, but this has been giving me indigestion since it happened and I finally decided to figure out if anyone else has had this happen. BTW, the SM's name was Arawon or something like that; if someone else has had experience with him, well, it'd be nice to know if they had a better one and I'm more of a singular case with it.....

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I'd say you did the right thing. Unfortunately, with the MMO community in general and the FTP community specifically, you'll run into the inconsiderate behavior quite a lot. If it becomes a serious issue for you, you can always, at the beginning, say something to the effect of "I'll be rolling need on pieces that are specifically upgrades for me, and I hope you do the same". Outside of this, I don't think there's much you can do other than ask and ultimately make use of your ignore list, if necessary.
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Actually I disagree and I think you did the wrong thing. I rarely "pass", but frequently "greed". If someone is present of the appropriate class, they should feel free to "need", otherwise I'll roll off against everyone else for companions, alts, GTN or even the vendor for BoA stuff.

 

If there's an error, I'm quite happy to trade gear across during the 2 hour grace period.

 

So, no I think passing is wrong, you should greed :), unless the items are so trivial you can't even use the credits from a vendor - in a different MMO, where I've been playing since pre-release, I will often press pass, because the items in question are so trivial to me.

 

And that appears by and large to be the state of play with all the groups I participate in. Those who really need the item need it and everyone else can be up front and greed.

 

So, it seems to me, at least, that by and large there is common courtesy amongst the players of the game.

 

Whilst I don't thing there was anything wrong with his greeding, it sounds to me like your new player is young and inexperienced in the MMO community. Given that most people are nicely behaved, no doubt he will soon learn that if he wants to be accepted into groups, he will need to learn to play nicely with others and calling you out was not the way to deal with the disagreement.

Edited by Tromador
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I may have misunderstood your post, and that Mara sounds like a bit of a jerk for insulting you unprovoked, but in my experience the is no unspoken rule that you pass on items not of your class.

 

You need on it if it is an upgrade, greed on it if you want it for any other reason , and pass if you don't. I don't think that the Mara did anything wrong in claiming it though a greed roll when you passed on your opportunity to roll for it. Had he been pressing need for everything it would be a different situation however. :p

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Yeah see nothing wrong with someone greeding...were he needing then I would have a issue with it. I greed on everything unless in a Ops or I am in a HMFP with some fresh 50's, then I will pass because I figure they need the gear for companions or credits more than my toon needs the credit. I will also pass if I know it is a upgrade for the person, just in case the hit greed instead of need. However, if we are of equal gear, I greed everything. If it is for their class and spec and a upgrade then they should hit need. Edited by mikebevo
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A bizarre response from the other player: if he needed it he should have Needed it. He can't fault you for greeding it if he didn't know enough to press the Need button (which would have won him the item). If he made a mistake he could have just politely asked you to give it to him using the Trade system.

 

I, and I think most other players, have no problem with other people who greed on things they can't directly use. By default that what most people do: Need if your main character can use it, Greed for everything else (and maybe pass if you know another player needs it, but that's really a courtesy, and isn't necessary if the other person uses the Need/Greed system properly). It's only people who Need on things that they can't use on their main character that are a problem.

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As I understand it, the rule is:

 

Need: If you need something for the character your are playing with

Greed: If you want something for offspec or if one of your companions could use it

Pass: If you have absolutely no use for it because neither you nor any of your companions could use it (like Sorcs and Aim gear or Consulars and Strength gear) and you are rich enough to even care about vendoring it.

 

I might occasionally greed on things that are BoE so that I might sell them on the GTN, especially on empty orange shells, but I will never need on anything that's not an actual upgrade for the gear my character has.

Edited by TheNahash
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As I understand it, the rule is:

 

Need: If you need something for the character your are playing with

Greed: If you want something for offspec or if one of your companions could use it

Pass: If you have absolutely no use for it because neither you nor any of your companions could use it (like Sorcs and Aim gear or Consulars and Strength gear) and you are rich enough to even care about vendoring it.

 

I might occasionally greed on things that are BoE so that I might sell them on the GTN, especially on empty orange shells, but I will never need on anything that's not an actual upgrade for the gear my character has.

the only time i pass it for guild run or if the gear is soo low i rather have the space then the credits it worth, i greed whatever i don't need for myself. getting gear for off spec and companions is easier questing and planet storylines and not part of my main focus.

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I give stuff i dont need to use to other people. but when i play with the occasional A-hole i try to take all i can get

 

I didn't realize the type of person the guy was until near the end when I asked him what he was going to do with all the Juggernaut loot after I was called a tool for finally getting a single piece. His reply was, "sell it for credits, ******." Until then, I just figured I was having a bad roll, since i was selecting need on Jug equip and so was he, or at least that's what it seemed like.

 

I did my best to help him throughout the thing, giving him advice on certain things, like reviving himself if he died while we fought one of the bosses in the BT flashpoint, since it would keep the boss from regening health. It was only about the last ten minutes that things turned real sour when he revealed he didn't need the stuff and was just grabbing it up for credits. Maybe I'm too nice, but since I don't use too many alts right now, I select pass since usually, other players could use the loot themselves for better defense/attack specs.

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I didn't realize the type of person the guy was until near the end when I asked him what he was going to do with all the Juggernaut loot after I was called a tool for finally getting a single piece. His reply was, "sell it for credits, ******." Until then, I just figured I was having a bad roll, since i was selecting need on Jug equip and so was he, or at least that's what it seemed like.

 

I did my best to help him throughout the thing, giving him advice on certain things, like reviving himself if he died while we fought one of the bosses in the BT flashpoint, since it would keep the boss from regening health. It was only about the last ten minutes that things turned real sour when he revealed he didn't need the stuff and was just grabbing it up for credits. Maybe I'm too nice, but since I don't use too many alts right now, I select pass since usually, other players could use the loot themselves for better defense/attack specs.

 

 

yeah basically, when i do flashpoints with people, there are people who deserve and who dont. unless the other WILLINGLY gives loot to you for credits. but if people are being jerks either by things they say, not helping everyone out, then i dont think they deserve the drops during the flashpoint.

 

but people like YOU there should be more of.

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Now me, even when I was a new player, I would pass on equipment drops that had nothing to do with my class. In this run, mainly Jug equipment dropped, and everytime he won the roll with greed. This guy was playing a Marauder, making the equipment useless to him.

 

That is no problem, if he wants to use greed when he rolls it is fair. It is those that press need on items they cant use that is the real problem.

 

I always need on stuff I can use myself and greed on stuff I can´t use, I usually only pass if my inventory is full.

Edited by Icestar
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That is no problem, if he wants to use greed when he rolls it is fair. It is those that press need on items they cant use that is the real problem.

 

I always need on stuff I can use myself and greed on stuff I can´t use, I usually only pass if my inventory is full.

 

i do the same but dont need for companion gear over a player character. also a lot of people i play with feel this way too.

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i do the same but dont need for companion gear over a player character. also a lot of people i play with feel this way too.

 

Companion gear is always greed, if someone use need for stuff they cant use themselves for a companion I either leave the team or intiate a vote kick (unless it is a mistake and they trade the item). I never play with those kind of players, they earn a spot on the ignorelist and I move on.

Edited by Icestar
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Okay, this is something that's got me thinking about just soloing flashpoints. I recently created a SW and leveled him up to an 11 Juggernaut, and did the Black Talon flashpoint with someone who was clearly a new player (from his inactions to his actions and chat commentary).

 

Now me, even when I was a new player, I would pass on equipment drops that had nothing to do with my class. In this run, mainly Jug equipment dropped, and everytime he won the roll with greed. This guy was playing a Marauder, making the equipment useless to him. I finally got a piece (shield generator) and was called a tool for doing so. I confronted the guy in chat, and suffice to say I found out he was doing the flashpoint and getting the pieces solely for the purpose of selling them. We eventually had a duel (his challenge, my win) and I placed him on my ignore list.

 

But because I've done my best to extend a courtesy to other players by tapping pass on all non-class equipment drops, I guess I thought this was a common courtesy. Now please note, this was one of the only flashpoints I've had a bad experience with, and the only time I haven't had a guild by the time I reached the Imperial Fleet. I recognize this is probably not the average occurrence, but this was the first time where my class was actually affected. (I've seen troopers grab Smug equip, BH snap up SI equip, etc.)

 

Anyways, this is technically just a bit of a rant, but this has been giving me indigestion since it happened and I finally decided to figure out if anyone else has had this happen. BTW, the SM's name was Arawon or something like that; if someone else has had experience with him, well, it'd be nice to know if they had a better one and I'm more of a singular case with it.....

 

if bad manners and in game etiquette is affecting you physically you need to seek help.

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RULE OF THUMB and the way its really always been for MMO.

 

You NEED if you are going to use it for that specific character doing that SPECIFIC job...so if my sorcs is healer and he'll use it then i NEED it......i may not put it straight on as i may want to augment it first etc but thats the idea...a little more confusing with mods but thats the general gist.

 

If you dont' NEED in those circumstances then you can GREED all.....pass only if you really don't want to it or are lumbering it/giving it all to someone else.

 

SIMPLES.

 

If you may want it for your companion, so ALL ITEMS CAN BE OF GREAT USE, then you SHOULD ASK FIRST before needing otherwise its just GREED and see what happens....so a bunch of rakata 50';s in black talon and i want something for azshara on my sorcs then i say OK IF I NEED FOR COMPANION and unless i get a yes/no then i need or greed appropriately.

 

THAT IS ALL.

 

If you find someone is doing the wrong thing challenge them they usually apologise and it can be traded and sorted out or have a vote and kick them.

 

BACK IN WOW DAYS i was kicked as we took on the boss JUST IN CASE i wanted to roll on an item that may have dropped and the leader of a pug didn't want to take the chance, AND it was a one run a day dungeon too so these probs are more odd person centric and don't let them ruin it for all of us WE WON@T.

 

Good luck and happy hunting

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If someone is needing on things that they don't need, warn them that will be kicked if they do it again. That generally fixes the problem. Needing for companions is not an excuse. Don't be afraid to start a vote to kick them out if they persist because it's what's best for the group, and hopefully the player will learn from his/her mistakes.
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If someone is needing on things that they don't need, warn them that will be kicked if they do it again. That generally fixes the problem. Needing for companions is not an excuse. Don't be afraid to start a vote to kick them out if they persist because it's what's best for the group, and hopefully the player will learn from his/her mistakes.

 

This is actually not the case in many of the groups with the introduction of F2P, yes this was not a problem before atleast not for me anyway. Nowdays it is very common that players takes items that they can not use. I am sure that most of them have been told before and know exactly what they are doing. In most cases they wait until all press greed/pass and then press need so it is a appearent ninja of the item. That is when I either try to kick the player or leave, in most cases I leave and start over without spending more energy on that specific group.

 

Bioware should make it impossible to need items that is not for your class like many other MMOs has already done.

Edited by Icestar
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Bioware should make it impossible to need items that is not for your class like many other MMOs has already done.

 

Absolutely not. Practically every piece of gear in swtor ops has an enhancement which can be used by anyone. A marauder needing on jugg DPS equipment can swap shells and equip it. Also, once you're well above the gear level of these isntances, Needing for companions and Greeding for vendor credits is a nice feature that keeps people form having to run back to boss bodies from passing.

 

If someone is rolling Need on things they will not equip themselves, ask them to trade it to the person who does need it. You can always request a re-roll and trade if someone wants it for a comp and so do others. Don't keep DPS on a team after they ninja something.

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The fact is that neither of you communicated your intentions. With this in mind, you were BOTH wrong :p.

 

Actually talking to the people you group with works wonders. NEVER assume (the whole ***** out of U and ME rears its ugly head every time).

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Absolutely not. Practically every piece of gear in swtor ops has an enhancement which can be used by anyone. A marauder needing on jugg DPS equipment can swap shells and equip it.

 

Then you greed it and ask if you can have the item, very simple. The use of need should be reserved for the specific class that can use the item

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Then you greed it and ask if you can have the item, very simple. The use of need should be reserved for the specific class that can use the item

 

You aren't understanding the specific issue he's talking about. The marauder can use all the mods on the item, so the only difference between the marauder and the dps jugg is that the jugg can use the shell while the marauder cannot. In this case giving the jugg priority essentially means that the jugg "needs" the empty shell. As empty orange shells are very easy to obtain, it would be ridiculous to roll need on them.

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You aren't understanding the specific issue he's talking about. The marauder can use all the mods on the item, so the only difference between the marauder and the dps jugg is that the jugg can use the shell while the marauder cannot. In this case giving the jugg priority essentially means that the jugg "needs" the empty shell. As empty orange shells are very easy to obtain, it would be ridiculous to roll need on them.

 

I understand perfectly what he is talking about. 3 of my 10 level 50s are Sentinel, Marauder and Juggernaut so I can relate to what he means.

 

However.....

 

If there is a juggernaut in the team and a heavy armor piece drops the juggernaut should have it over a marauder, all else is pure wrong and considered ninjalooting. I would gladly support a vote kick if the juggernaut lost a heavy armourpiece to a marauder and ofcourse place the ninja on my ignorelist.

 

I have seen many take loot they cant equip saying they need it for the mods but it is still wrong and I will never support it. I still stand by my opinion that need is for the specific class and nothing else. If the player want a item for mods they can either ask the team or greed and hope for the best.

Edited by Icestar
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I think I need to clarify something since there appears to be a bit of confusion.

 

The Marauder in question was not needing it for the mods. He stated, quite plainly, his intent to sell the items he got. This was after he called me a tool for finally getting one piece, the Black Talon Juggernaught Shield Generator. 4-5 other pieces for Juggernaught had dropped prior to this point, and he had used need on them all.

 

As I said, in the past I've always done 'pass' on things not for my class, meaning specific equipment like 'Hunter's Gloves' or 'Mercenary's Greaves'. I'll roll greed for things like 'trandoshan boltplate greaves', but not anything that's class specific. To me, this is common courtesy.

 

Oh, and I'd like to say that I've had no problems before now, but since I resubbed (post-F2P), I've had three teams where I've had a douche bag who does that, none of them where I was group leader. In the case of this particular person, we were the only two in the group, and he'd invited me into the group. As such, I couldn't exactly initiate a 'vote' thing, since it was me, him, and our mutual Twi'leks. Two of those teams have happened since I posted the original point.

 

Anyways, hope I've cleared up some points. At this point, I try to be in a guild from now on, or I just do the flashpoints on my own much later so I can enjoy the storyline without having to space bar like some people want. I also queue for PVP solo, and since I tend to be a tank spec, I generally take guard duty. Now that I'm in higher levels on one character, I have him actively fighting as well rather than hanging back and guarding.

 

Honestly, I don't know if this guy was F2P or a sub. Maybe he started out F2P and then subbed. But I do know that there seems to be an increase. Its one of the reasons I avoid Heroics and flashpoints at the moment. Queuing solo on PVP allows me to do things as I prefer, whereas if I queued in groups I'd somehow be expected to lead, and I don't know enough about it to do that.

 

I have one character who I've done no heroics or FP on, and that's going to continue. I'll do FPs later on with him. Once I've got a good grounding of them on my own, maybe I'll do more group stuff.

 

If someone wants to know who I am and what server, and wants to partner with me on FPs, I'm open, but ONLY if you're going to be mature about it and are not in it solely for getting loot to sell. If you want to know that info, PM me. I've got two main characters, a SW and a JK.

 

Anyways, I might have sounded like I was ranting earlier in this post; if I did, I apologize. I've got a few other things I'm currently working through, including something to do with my financial future, which affects my irritation level.

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