I first wanted to say, while I have been vey comfortable playing this game's ground portion of PvP in this game, win or lose, comes down to team, gearing and communication with your team. I have to say though, after my 2 bouts in PvP yesterday, I have to really look at actually playing this portion of the game, due to being constantly one shotted by "Hell" Star fighters and gunships. Not sure if this is how it's suppose to be and I know there are people within the game that focus soley on this (Have people in my Republic guild that is deathly scared of ground PvP, but will do space all day long).

 

I can see a bunch of people dominating and actually keeping people from progressing through this portion of the game, as I figured its easier to sit and one spot and not fight "due to being one shotted" and get my daily done than to actually put forth effort against these teams that have super ships (It's that or don't que at all).

 

I am not sure how this is going to pan out for those wanting to delve into the "Starfighter" portion of this game and I am not asking for a expertise rating for ships, but they need to address things for the new individuals coming to this game as the current dynamic could ultimately cuase real issues (No one queing means no one playing.).

 

Maybe the developers could actually put some dynamic in place for teams based on their ships layout. A difficulty level based on load out of the ship's items. I don't know, this is just something I thought I would throw out there in hopes that the developers would actually catch this before it becomes a bigger problem.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Tonev

Really, the solution here is to go out there and practice, practice, practice.

 

Go out there, hang out with the pack, and focus on shooting down people busy doing other things (like attacking someone else). It took me several matches before I scored my first kill, but I just stuck with it and eventually I got the hang of it and started performing well.

 

Also, spend some time in the tutorial. It's there for a reason. Just go in and fly around. Ignore the objectives, just go and fly and practice learning the controls, it really does help.

OP, there's nothing that can be done right now (except not queueing, as you said) because currently there's no matchmaking. When Preferred and F2P players enter the equation, then hopefully it will be ensured that new pilots won't end up against fully upgraded Gunship premades. Hopefully.

 

Oh and ignore the L2P comment. It usually comes from people who think "Upgraded Premade vs.Base Loadout Newbie = Skill". The "Practice, practice, practice" comment is valid, on the other side, but I understand that practice is somewhat difficult when you spend the whole match travelling from spawn point only to be immediately killed again.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Danylia

Oh and ignore the L2P comment.

 

The "Practice, practice, practice" comment is valid

 

L2P is practice, practice, practice. Nobody pops out of a can being good at anything. I spent my first 15 or so matches stinking horribly. I'm finally up to mediocre.

 

Accept that you're not that great, and work at getting better. Don't try to change the system because you can't make it work to your advantage instantly.

 

Oh and ignore the L2P comment. It usually comes from people who think "Upgraded Premade vs.Base Loadout Newbie = Skill".

Then why is it that I can get on one of my other characters and solo queue up and fly a non-upgraded ship and do just fine? Learning where and how to fly is more important than any upgrade you can get on a ship.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Lendul

Sorry OP, nothing like what your asking for needs to be done. Just to see what the people's complaints were, I started a brand new character, level 1 with only the default crew & a non-upgraded ship. I was 2nd in damage with the most objective points for my team. The balance in this is remarkably good compared to the ground game. The difference is that GSF is truly a skill based game. It is not a skill that you are born with, it is a skill that you practice and get better at.

 

Sitting and hiding may get your daily done, but requisition is rewarded based on the number of medals that you earn. If you try to help your team you will get more medals which gives more requisition helping you upgrade your ship faster. It will also give you much needed experience that will help you get better more than the upgraded ship will.

Well right now there are builds that have burst damage capabilities that are possibly unbalanced in a fully upgraded and skilled group, and definitely unbalanced against inexperienced pilots in stock ships. That might be toned down a bit at release through tweaking numbers, or by shuffling where you get things in the upgrade trees.

 

Another problem is that right now there is no matchmaking due to low populations so the best geared and most experienced get to have their way with the ungeared new players who are still trying to figure out how not to crash into rocks.

 

There's also not any good place other than space battles to learn to fly. The tutorial is boring, and doesn't teach you much, though in theory you could learn the flight controls well if you're content just flying around with nothing to do. The in game documentation is sparse and spotty, and not enough info has been released for there to be really good third party guides that are reliably accurate either. So you're on your own in a hostile environment, unless friends help you out. In a war sim this wouldn't be a problem because the asymmetry would just be good modelling, but MMORPG players tend to prefer a playing field that appears level to them (which isn't always what's level in fact).

 

On thing to note, is that it takes practice and gearing to succeed in GS. If you AFK for req what you'll wind up with is a fully upgraded ship that you get torn apart in just as quickly as you did in the stock ship. I agree that the learning can be painful, especially for newcomers to flight genres, but if you want to have a chance at winning, the learning is necessary.

 

As a side note: if getting slaughtered bothers you it might be best to hit survivability upgrades before offensive ones. A nice thing about that is much of the survivability is in the minor components, which are a lot cheaper than the major ones. It won't help you with the 'fun' of getting high kill counts, but if you're spending all your time respawning it may be the best investment of req points. Keep in mind that speed and maneuverability upgrades are definitely survivability upgrades and they help with offense too.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Ramalina

Then why is it that I can get on one of my other characters and solo queue up and fly a non-upgraded ship and do just fine? Learning where and how to fly is more important than any upgrade you can get on a ship.

 

That's a very good point. The game really does depend on skill, and while the upgrades DO make a difference, a good pilot will perform well even in an unupgraded ship.

 

So, yes, practice. You WILL die often, but the trick at first is to stick with the pack. Find where most of your teammates are and join them, then start attacking the ones THEY are attacking, or enemies busy attacking someone else.

 

There's no secret, to be honest. You just have to take your lumps and persevere, and soon enough you will be scoring your first skills and having the time of your life.

Gearing does make a difference. But skill represents better then 75% of success.

 

There are OP builds on both the scout and the GS though I've never seen a GS one shot a strike fighter though if they are in fact one shooting scouts well that's actually really good news for striker pilots who are feeling useless in a dogfights.

 

The burst laser + cluster missile kill you in less then 3 seconds is the only truly agregious thing out there IMO. Where only an identical build can stop it.

L2P is practice, practice, practice. Nobody pops out of a can being good at anything. I spent my first 15 or so matches stinking horribly. I'm finally up to mediocre.

 

Accept that you're not that great, and work at getting better. Don't try to change the system because you can't make it work to your advantage instantly.

 

Not asking to make it work out the box either, but if YOUR whole team is practically getting one shotted by whatever super ship people have figured out, it is a potential problem (where you even here or remember concealment operative damage?). On a note, I got some kills and damage, but this team yesterday was pretty much the SAME exact premade farming any and everyone coming in. Never did I ask for a bolster, so I don't know how you pulled that out the air, oh wait a minute, your from PoT5, that answers that question.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Tonev

Gearing does make a difference. But skill represents better then 75% of success.

 

I couldn't agree more with this statement.

 

OP, I certainly understand your frustration, but I would respectfully point out that I don't think gear is the biggest reason you're having a hard time--experience is the larger factor. Gear DOES matter, but not nearly as much as being comfortable with the game. Knowing the ins and outs of a map, common tactics other players use (and how to counter those tactics), the strengths and weaknesses of your ship choice, all of these things and more are critical to having a good match. I speak from experience on this: I like flying a lot of different ships. I use 5 different ships: 2 strikes and 3 scouts each with different builds so I can play however I like for a match, depending on what mood I'm in.

 

This past weekend, I started using my 2nd Strike and 3rd scout for the first time, and each had very minor upgrades. I was not as effective in my less upgraded ships, but I still did pretty well. I'm a solid GSF player--not amazing, I don't get 50k+ damage like some of these other better players do--but I very often have solid matches with 20-30k damage, 5-10 kills, 7-12 assists, and lots of objective points and medals. When I flew newer, un-upgraded or barely upgraded ships I still did pretty well. Less damage and less kills, sure. But I still had good matches. And that's because I've done so many matches (at least 200 now) I've gotten better at knowing the maps, knowing my weaknesses and strengths, and knowing common tactics that players use and ways to combat those tactics, becoming comfortable with the controls, learning good movement to keep folks in the crosshairs and get missile locks, etc.

 

So, OP, I sure do understand where you could be frustrated, especially since its early access and matchmaking either isn't working or certainly isn't yet working as intended due to the relatively small pool of players. So you're probably playing with folks that have done tons and tons of matches. There's a lot of good advice here in this thread: try looking for teammates, trying to stick with them. Find someone and wingman them whether they know it or not so you're not alone out there. Experience will make you better. Best of luck, and I hope you stick with it!!

So you want GSF Bolster?

 

No. Just ... NO.

 

L2P. That is all.

 

 

Don't be a jerk about it, dude. He just started playing it, it has a very very steep learning curve, and so of course he's frustrated, because he doesn't yet understand.

 

@ OP - Like I just said, GSF has a huge and steep learning curve, what you need is *practice*. Yes, you will get blown up but so does everyone when they first start out. After a few games, you'll find you're doing better. After 10-15, you might find yourself doing decent, and eventually, you may find you are one of those people flying around one shotting others (which, by the way, happens to people with fully upgraded ships).

 

Try out different ships too, but try to stick with each one for a whole game or two so you can really feel them out before you pick the one you like best. Each ship has a different playstyle that works for it. Also, the default loadouts kind of stink and you'll need to modify your ship for optimal stats/abilities. Veteran players can do decent in an unupgraded ship, but it's a pain in the butt when you don't have what you're used to/need/want.

Never did I ask for a bolster, so I don't know how you pulled that out the air, oh wait a minute, your from PoT5, that answers that question.

 

lol.... what does Pot5 have to do with this?

Edited December 27, 2013 by -Shadowfist-

Not asking to make it work out the box either, but if YOUR whole team is practically getting one shotted by whatever super ship people have figured out, it is a potential problem (where you even here or remember concealment operative damage?).

I'm fully aware. They then proceeded to kill the spec. Only the best can get anything done with it anymore. It's a shell of it's former self. They took the cannon away from the glass cannon, but gave nothing in return.

On a note, I got some kills and damage, but this team yesterday was pretty much the SAME exact premade farming any and everyone coming in. Never did I ask for a bolster, so I don't know how you pulled that out the air, oh wait a minute, your from PoT5, that answers that question.

Does this look familiar?

Maybe the developers could actually put some dynamic in place for teams based on their ships layout. A difficulty level based on load out of the ship's items. I don't know, this is just something I thought I would throw out there in hopes that the developers would actually catch this before it becomes a bigger problem.

Edited December 27, 2013 by Uber_the_Goober

Don't be a jerk about it, dude. He just started playing it, it has a very very steep learning curve, and so of course he's frustrated, because he doesn't yet understand.

 

100% agree. If you're coming into GSF for the first time and are regularly going up against people with 150+ matches and fully upgraded ships you're going to be frustrated. And GSF DOES have a big learning curve--and experiencing that learning curve while up against the aforementioned players would definitely be very frustrating. Let's not jump down people's throats because of their entirely valid frustrations.

Really the upgrades add very little to one's ship, they are only really small perks and won't make the difference between a skilled fighter and one that isn't any good. I can take out a fresh unmodded fighter on one of my unplayed GSF toons and get the same type of performance that I can from a fully modded ship.

 

It's all about practice. I've played a few hundred matches, and I knew right from the start I'd have a learning curve from those who played in beta (I did not) and I didn't try to go out an dominate from the get go.

 

You will have to learn things one at a time, learn flying, learn targeting, start first with objectives and then move on to taking on other ships. This is a completely new portion of the game and there is a learning curve; there is even a curve to get back in if you take a few days off.

 

Be patient, two matches isn't going to make you an ace. I've played a few hundred matches and I'm still learning as well. Have fun.

 

Does this look familiar?

 

What's wrong with what he quoted? He didn't ask for a bolster in that quote that you clearly misinterpreted. He said the system should analyze the ship's loadout, assign a "value" to that loadout based on upgrades, etc, then match a player against other people with similar loadout scores. So no one is being bolstered: rather highly upgraded folks are pitted against other such folks and so on and so forth.

 

L2Read before telling people to L2Play.

yeah, its called matchmaking Einstein ...

 

only a select Group of People are able to Play GSF at the Moment, thats it

My recommendation would be to defend on green satellites, and to learn to take out stationary turrets first. You will get points, medals and commendations and will be learning in the process. The game after all (right now) is more about capping and holding the satellites, than getting kills on other ships.

L2P is practice, practice, practice.

That's correct, yes. I was more comparing the (only at that time) other and actually polite/helpful response to your jerk one.

 

Then why is it that I can get on one of my other characters and solo queue up and fly a non-upgraded ship and do just fine? Learning where and how to fly is more important than any upgrade you can get on a ship.

I don't know you, so I cannot judge; you may indeed be just that good. However, you also

1) Could play against new pilots with unupgraded ships

2) Could have experienced pilots/premade with upgrades on your side

 

This will be an unpopular statement: while I agree that skill > gear, and that the learning curve is rather steep and skill is required, I at the same time believe that some players are exaggerating their skill. They think skill is why they are winning, while in fact upgrades and especially teamwork is why they are winning.

There is certain Gunship-heavy premade on my server which is pretty much impossible to beat. However, every once in a while players from this premade solo queue and get in a PuG match; and in that case, they aren't better than the rest of participants. Not worse, sure, they have the necessary minimum of skill required - but not better.

Either this will be helpful to you or it won't... But skill is seriously 95% of what GSF is and 5% star fighter upgrades. What people are saying is correct.

 

Which either means you will be happy cause the "practice, practice, practice" that people are saying will even things out, or you will be disappointed, because no level of upgrades to your ship will make a bad pilot do well in GSF.

 

Advice: Keep playing, start with defending and killing stationary turrets and capping satellites.

Really, the solution here is to go out there and practice, practice, practice.

 

Go out there, hang out with the pack, and focus on shooting down people busy doing other things (like attacking someone else). It took me several matches before I scored my first kill, but I just stuck with it and eventually I got the hang of it and started performing well.

 

Also, spend some time in the tutorial. It's there for a reason. Just go in and fly around. Ignore the objectives, just go and fly and practice learning the controls, it really does help.

 

What this guy said, i recently started logging my lev 16 republic char for space pvp, no modified ships and i still dominate alot of the matches. this is a two fold problem for you, 1st practice is a key, find ya strengths and weaknesses in each ship, learn how to survive on each and how to kill each, the other part is get them mods done in ya ships, personally i focus weapons and engines then shields.

 

Space pvp is mostly about learning the skills rather than ship mods but the latter helps ofc.

 

Good hunting.

Either this will be helpful to you or it won't... But skill is seriously 95% of what GSF is and 5% star fighter upgrades. What people are saying is correct.

 

Which either means you will be happy cause the "practice, practice, practice" that people are saying will even things out, or you will be disappointed, because no level of upgrades to your ship will make a bad pilot do well in GSF.

 

Advice: Keep playing, start with defending and killing stationary turrets and capping satellites.

 

Just citing you b/c I don't want to cite every one, but saying that skill is above all, is compltely false here.

Weapons do have a precision % and fighters do have an Evade %.

Thus, this kind of situation happens more than often:

- 1 Stick into someone's six, flying straight. Weapons not upgraded hit at 90% or so, guy flying straight, evading just b/c his ship is upgraded... So, you're hitting nothing just b/c numbers says so.

 

After this, skill doesn't have that kind of an impact. Except if skill for you, is "stopping engine and OS opponent from 15kms while standing hidden above a rock, or at the fringe of any object to have a line on your target while he doesn't have one on you. Then we'll agree to disagree.

 

Right now, outflying is pretty basic. left/right/up/down, barrels, loops, immelmans, or any evade maneuvers are special attacks. So much for learning how to fly in a space combat.

 

If you really want to talk about skill and such, then, BW should switch to 1st person view, add a Joystick, remove the evade/precision stuff, adds chaff/flares, add the possibility to turn your head to see where your enemies are, and a real built-in radar and let's go! I'm pretty sure some of the supposedly best pilots around will have some trouble then.

 

And btw, how can you put on 5 guys on a scout fighter????

 

Until then, mostly, if you don't have an upgraded fighter you'll suck. And February will get ugly real fast with all the newcomers being thrown into the battle with basics ships. They're supposed to do some kind of matchmaking? I hardly see it most of the time right now.

Edited December 30, 2013 by NalRethak

Just citing you b/c I don't want to cite every one, but saying that skill is above all, is compltely false here.

Weapons do have a precision % and fighters do have an Evade %.

Thus, this kind of situation happens more than often:

- 1 Stick into someone's six, flying straight. Weapons not upgraded hit at 90% or so, guy flying straight, evading just b/c his ship is upgraded... So, you're hitting nothing just b/c numbers says so.

 

After this, skill doesn't have that kind of an impact. Except if skill for you, is "stopping engine and OS opponent from 15kms while standing hidden above a rock, or at the fringe of any object to have a line on your target while he doesn't have one on you. Then we'll agree to disagree.

 

Right now, outflying is pretty basic. left/right/up/down, barrels, loops, immelmans, or any evade maneuvers are special attacks. So much for learning how to fly in a space combat.

 

If you really want to talk about skill and such, then, BW should switch to 1st person view, add a Joystick, remove the evade/precision stuff, adds chaff/flares, add the possibility to turn your head to see where your enemies are, and a real built-in radar and let's go! I'm pretty sure some of the supposedly best pilots around will have some trouble then.

 

And btw, how can you put on 5 guys on a scout fighter????

 

Until then, mostly, if you don't have an upgraded fighter you'll suck. And February will get ugly real fast with all the newcomers being thrown into the battle with basics ships. They're supposed to do some kind of matchmaking? I hardly see it most of the time right now.

 

You still need to hit the lead indicator before accuracy/evasion is ever factored in. Thus player skill is required.

 

Secondly, my upgraded Pike has _NO_ improvements to accuracy on its primary weapons, none whatsoever. And yet I do most of my damage with my Quad Lasers. Indeed, I do far more damage now with them than I did at the beginning.

 

How does this jive with your claims? It doesn't, because I got better through PRACTICE. I also use a Star Guard that relies on heavy lasers, and by PRACTICING my blaster targeting skills using that fighter I became far deadlier with all primary weapons.

 

The lesson is simple: Practice Matters. Precision Targeting with the mouse matters. If you're struggling in GSF now, don't give up, don't blame evasion or what have you, just PRACTICE. Get out there, take your lumps, and I guarantee you, you will become a good pilot. It worked for me, it worked for a friend with FAR less simulator/twitch game experience than I, and it'll work for you.

 

And finally, flying skills DO matter. Those people who score near the top in every match? They don't do so because of exploits or by wedging themselves in corners and waiting for people to come by. They go OUT THERE and they fly their arses off. The bad pilots who don't know how fly and stop engines all the time are prey to the good ones.

Really, the solution here is to go out there and practice, practice, practice.

 

Go out there, hang out with the pack, and focus on shooting down people busy doing other things (like attacking someone else). It took me several matches before I scored my first kill, but I just stuck with it and eventually I got the hang of it and started performing well.

 

Also, spend some time in the tutorial. It's there for a reason. Just go in and fly around. Ignore the objectives, just go and fly and practice learning the controls, it really does help.

 

This is the best advice of this thread...minus the tutorial part, which I think is terrible.

 

Practice. Stick right behind other pilots and go where they go, follow the pack...it gives you the best chance to stay alive until you get a feel for what you're doing.

 

Learn to use your 'F' keys - F3 (power to engines) from the spawn to the objective and from there F1 (power to weapons for offense) or F2 (power to shields defense).

 

Attack the little leading target, not the ship itself - you need to lead your target because we all know that space ships travel faster than light based laser weapons...right?! (just lead your target...forget realism)