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Anger and fear.


Path-x

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I think anger and fear are for losers and for the weak. These two emotions don't fit with SIth "survival of the strongest" behaviour and their winner mentality. Anger greatly diminishes ones focus and mental performance and consequently increases chance for errors. Winners have no reason to be angry while losers do. As for fear, fear is a powerful weapon so therefore the Sith should induce fear and terror into their enemies, not the other way around. A Sith who is afraid sounds pathetic and weak.

 

I think the ideal Sith would be unbound by any moral standards and would have the Sith efficiency and disregard for weak and Jedi calmness and focus. When I was playing my Sith characters I went by that mentality. I always chose conversation responses that had calmness, wit and mocking attitude. This makes you look like you always have things under control and that nothing can get to you. I never chose options that included anger. I enjoyed the most when Jedi opponent got angry and I would preach to him, make fun of him and tell him how pathetic he is. To me anger is not only a loser emotion but also makes one look unintelligent.

 

I think your understanding of the dark side is limited, if not totally wrong. Anger is a strong emotion and it can give you strength, but even most sith will warn about long term use. I love it when all these jedi give up on their morals and then attack me in a fit of rage, which to me proves that anger can be a stronger influence than anyone's morals.

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Just a thought, but its my opinion that there are three types of Sith

 

Raw Sith: Those Sith who have completely embraced their emotions to the point where their emotions and the dark side controls them, dominates them and turns them into its own weapon. They are basically slaves to its will and lash out at anything and everything, they have no real plans or goals they just want to kill and destroy. Perfect examples of these would be Sion and Nihilus. Savage and Maul can also be considered to be 'raw Sith'. Maybe even the Sith Emperor fits into the category.

 

Focused Sith: Those Sith who have honed their emotions and have some measure of control over them, however they are still driven by the dark side and corrupted by it. They are not mindless killers, but the dark side often takes over their will and drives them to seek power for powers sake. Examples of these would be most Sith such as Exar Kun, Dooku, Revan & Malak and even Sidious. They all sought power for powers sake.

 

Uber-Focused Sith: Very few Sith achieve this stage. These Sith have completely and utterly mastered their emotions. It is not the dark side that drives them, but their own will, they set out their own goals and plans, not the dark sides. They don't collect power for powers sake, they have a mission, and the dark side is just a way of achieving it. I can only really think of two examples of this, Darth Traya and Darth Vectivus. IMO all Sith should strive to achieve this position, otherwise the dark side will corrupt them and they will become its weapon, rather than the dark side being there's.

 

I like this idea.

Edited by Path-x
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I like this idea.

I totally dislike, it is just a hierarchy of values viewed as important by author of it.

after all, all Siths get corrupted by the dark side. Power itself is a right goal, just like any other, killing and thrill of the hunt is like any other joy, destruction is not lesser than construction.

only thing that makes Siths different is that they channel emotions in the different way, or they simply channel dark side of the force which just represents chaos, so theres a place for "passion" as it is chaotic in nature, they may consume it and gain strength, it is not written in stone that they get affected by emotions, start throwing rocks, beating wall etc. they may, they can if they want, but it is not neccessary

Edited by Surinen
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Just a thought, but its my opinion that there are three types of Sith

 

Raw Sith: Those Sith who have completely embraced their emotions to the point where their emotions and the dark side controls them, dominates them and turns them into its own weapon. They are basically slaves to its will and lash out at anything and everything, they have no real plans or goals they just want to kill and destroy. Perfect examples of these would be Sion and Nihilus. Savage and Maul can also be considered to be 'raw Sith'. Maybe even the Sith Emperor fits into the category.

 

Focused Sith: Those Sith who have honed their emotions and have some measure of control over them, however they are still driven by the dark side and corrupted by it. They are not mindless killers, but the dark side often takes over their will and drives them to seek power for powers sake. Examples of these would be most Sith such as Exar Kun, Dooku, Revan & Malak and even Sidious. They all sought power for powers sake.

 

Uber-Focused Sith: Very few Sith achieve this stage. These Sith have completely and utterly mastered their emotions. It is not the dark side that drives them, but their own will, they set out their own goals and plans, not the dark sides. They don't collect power for powers sake, they have a mission, and the dark side is just a way of achieving it. I can only really think of two examples of this, Darth Traya and Darth Vectivus. IMO all Sith should strive to achieve this position, otherwise the dark side will corrupt them and they will become its weapon, rather than the dark side being there's.

 

I think Uber-Focused Sith, fits very well with the SI storyline myself. Maybe it's because I didn't play mine pure DS, option! Grrrrr!

 

But only to a point. Sadly, the game basically directs all characters of a class to the same goal/destination for the most part.

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I think Uber-Focused Sith, fits very well with the SI storyline myself. Maybe it's because I didn't play mine pure DS, option! Grrrrr!

 

But only to a point. Sadly, the game basically directs all characters of a class to the same goal/destination for the most part.

even totally focused Sith would do all those dark side options, why would he spare those who are useless or let joy to slide away. and I do not understand why people add "grrr" to dark side options, in fact I dont even remember one anger outburst by Sith Warrior, he is very much sophisticated about his responds and the way he treats his kills

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even totally focused Sith would do all those dark side options, why would he spare those who are useless or let joy to slide away. and I do not understand why people add "grrr" to dark side options, in fact I dont even remember one anger outburst by Sith Warrior, he is very much sophisticated about his responds and the way he treats his kills

 

I am not against the Sith causing destruction. I am against Sith being angry. Anger, in my opinion, makes one look lame and unintelligent. You can still cause destruction, not in the anger stance, but rather in the pleasure stance which makes you look much cooler (better / badas). And doing it with pleasure would be just as dark side as doing it with anger (if not even more).

Edited by Path-x
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I totally dislike, it is just a hierarchy of values viewed as important by author of it.

after all, all Siths get corrupted by the dark side. Power itself is a right goal, just like any other, killing and thrill of the hunt is like any other joy, destruction is not lesser than construction.

only thing that makes Siths different is that they channel emotions in the different way, or they simply channel dark side of the force which just represents chaos, so theres a place for "passion" as it is chaotic in nature, they may consume it and gain strength, it is not written in stone that they get affected by emotions, start throwing rocks, beating wall etc. they may, they can if they want, but it is not neccessary

even totally focused Sith would do all those dark side options, why would he spare those who are useless or let joy to slide away. and I do not understand why people add "grrr" to dark side options, in fact I dont even remember one anger outburst by Sith Warrior, he is very much sophisticated about his responds and the way he treats his kills
And yet what you are saying seems to imply otherwise. Its not a hierachy in the sense that Uber Focused Sith are always stronger than Raw Sith. Darth Traya was not stronger than Darth Sidious after all. And Darth Nihilus owns basically everyone.

 

Like you said, what makes sith different is that they channel/use their emotions in a different way. All dark siders use emotions, but some remain completely detached and draw on them without actually feeling them. No its not written in stone that they all get overwhelmed by emotions, that's why there are three types of Sith.

 

Should all Sith strive to detach themselves from their emotions? I believe so, because to achieve true power they must overcome the will of the Force. For an Uber-Focused Sith the line 'my chains are broken' rings true. They are not controlled or corrupted by the Force in anyway, it does not wield them like a weapon. They have achieved dominance over it by mastering their emotions. And so have the potential to achieve unlimited power, but most importantly, make their own path. Only Darth Traya and Vectivus can claim to have done this.

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I am not against the Sith killing the weak and causing destruction. I am against Sith being angry. Anger, in my opinion, one makes look lame. You can still cause destruction, but not in an angry stance, but rather in a pleasure stance which make you look much cooler (better / badas). And doing it with pleasure would be just as dark side as doing it in anger (if not even more).

from what I have seen in swtor only few Siths got angry and most of those who got angry did it out of combat. also angr is a pleasure for Siths, anger for a Sith is not only his own but also the one of others, they feed on it, on pure chaos. and to be honest pleasure affects combat abilities more than anger, while anger boosts and may distract then pleasure takes energy away, unless it is just a simple extatic joy in form of euphoria, but then it is a total a chaos, similar to anger. also being angry doesnt mean that it takes pleasure away, while action in process is mostly driven by desire of destruction then there is a happiness when object is destroyed. Definately Anger is not the same thing for force users as for normal people.the main question is focus, whenether one is focused or not, not anger

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And yet what you are saying seems to imply otherwise. Its not a hierachy in the sense that Uber Focused Sith are always stronger than Raw Sith. Darth Traya was not stronger than Darth Sidious after all. And Darth Nihilus owns basically everyone.

 

Like you said, what makes sith different is that they channel/use their emotions in a different way. All dark siders use emotions, but some remain completely detached and draw on them without actually feeling them. No its not written in stone that they all get overwhelmed by emotions, that's why there are three types of Sith.

 

Should all Sith strive to detach themselves from their emotions? I believe so, because to achieve true power they must overcome the will of the Force. For an Uber-Focused Sith the line 'my chains are broken' rings true. They are not controlled or corrupted by the Force in anyway, it does not wield them like a weapon. They have achieved dominance over it by mastering their emotions. And so have the potential to achieve unlimited power, but most importantly, make their own path. Only Darth Traya and Vectivus can claim to have done this.

only if you think that there is a will of the force, dark side unlike light is not a dictator ( well jedi are slaves of their own limits), it thrives in free will of those who takes what they want by any means they want, it is not force that makes them kill, but they kill with a help of force. but I guess you like idea of the living force and its will.

and Traya was pretty corrupted, her face didnt became so unnaturaly pale just because of old age and warm kisses with Nihilus. Vectivus on the other hand, he seems to be much more of a disturbed force user who is rather a material for a little bit lost jedi than a Sith. if anyone is trully focused then it is Vitiate ( who never shown emotions ) then Scourge and Sith Warrior. with Vitiate beinng the most wise and powerful.

Edited by Surinen
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from what I have seen in swtor only few Siths got angry and most of those who got angry did it out of combat. also angr is a pleasure for Siths, anger for a Sith is not only his own but also the one of others, they feed on it, on pure chaos. and to be honest pleasure affects combat abilities more than anger, while anger boosts and may distract then pleasure takes energy away, unless it is just a simple extatic joy in form of euphoria, but then it is a total a chaos, similar to anger. also being angry doesnt mean that it takes pleasure away, while action in process is mostly driven by desire of destruction then there is a happiness when object is destroyed. Definately Anger is not the same thing for force users as for normal people.the main question is focus, whenether one is focused or not, not anger

 

I don't think we are on the same page here. I am NOT talking just about how anger works in a Star Wars in respect to the force power. I am completely aware that in Star Wars canon anger provides pathway to more power. I am mainly saying two things. First is that I dislike this concept. And second (most important) is that I think anger makes one look lame and unintelligent. I much prefer the Sith who appear to have everything under control. For example Emperor in ROTJ, grinning and enjoying or Vader chocking officers while calmly making witty and sarcastic remarks (despite them failing him and giving him the reason for anger he appeared like nothing can get to him). That is what looks badas and cool. And that is why they so great villains.

Edited by Path-x
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even totally focused Sith would do all those dark side options, why would he spare those who are useless or let joy to slide away. and I do not understand why people add "grrr" to dark side options, in fact I dont even remember one anger outburst by Sith Warrior, he is very much sophisticated about his responds and the way he treats his kills

 

With the SI's background. I disagree. You were a slave, forced into being a Sith, ridiculed for being an alien (at least if you are an alien) .

 

the cult you get seems useful, you get LS points for not giving them up and taking what you want, and DS points for making the deal. Sooo...why go DS on that one?

 

Why wouldn't you go against the established order? They are after all, at some level, responsible for how you have been/currently are treated.

 

Then to make matters worse you get on a Dark Counsil members bad side, because you did what other Sith do, but not really even though he doesnt want to see, only it's bad because you're an ex-slave/alien.

 

Not to mention, saving some lives could be beneficial to you. So, know when to kill em know when to spare them. :p

 

And on my SW so far, I've had DS options that were, "Yeah. Kill for killing's sake" imo. Not all, but some.

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With the SI's background. I disagree. You were a slave, forced into being a Sith, ridiculed for being an alien (at least if you are an alien) .

 

the cult you get seems useful, you get LS points for not giving them up and taking what you want, and DS points for making the deal. Sooo...why go DS on that one?

 

Why wouldn't you go against the established order? They are after all, at some level, responsible for how you have been/currently are treated.

 

Then to make matters worse you get on a Dark Counsil members bad side, because you did what other Sith do, but not really even though he doesnt want to see, only it's bad because you're an ex-slave/alien.

 

Not to mention, saving some lives could be beneficial to you. So, know when to kill em know when to spare them. :p

 

And on my SW so far, I've had DS options that were, "Yeah. Kill for killing's sake" imo. Not all, but some.

thats what being Sith about, whenether slave or not, your chains can be broken if you want to and you can become great whatever your past was. hell, it gives even a better position to strike all those under you, after all you were nothing and became Sith and the others? they are still nothing, a dust on your boots, unable to reach for their freedom and power, stomping them shouldnt be a problem, you had the same chances but you won. compassion would be terrible, it would mean to be chained into slave morality while being a Lord

 

and about cult, I dont remember it well, but from what I remember, dark side options led to greater power, and in the end you got much more stronger allies then those pathetic humans or paladius, from what I remember going dark side was totally beneficial

 

I dont remember even one on SW that was just for the sake of killing, you killed those who deserved it whenether because of their ill behaviour or other way - and no doubt SW got a smile from that, so no pointless at all.

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only if you think that there is a will of the force, dark side unlike light is not a dictator ( well jedi are slaves of their own limits), it thrives in free will of those who takes what they want by any means they want, it is not force that makes them kill, but they kill with a help of force. but I guess you like idea of the living force and its will.

and Traya was pretty corrupted, her face didnt became so unnaturaly pale just because of old age and warm kisses with Nihilus. Vectivus on the other hand, he seems to be much more of a disturbed force user who is rather a material for a little bit lost jedi than a Sith. if anyone is trully focused then it is Vitiate ( who never shown emotions ) then Scourge and Sith Warrior. with Vitiate beinng the most wise and powerful.

I am of the opinion that the Force has a will, Celestials, the Ones, the Chosen One etc. all point to this being the case.

 

However ultimately its irrelevant. Its not so much the Force telling them what to do, but the power promised by the dark side compelling them to desire more and more power for its own sake, in a sense they become 'addicted' to the dark side. Take the Sith of the Order of the Sith Lords. Why were they so hell bent on destroying the Republic and the Jedi? What personal grievances did they hold against them? None. Heck many of the Sith in the Order where just random force sensitives indoctrinated into Sith teachings, then all of a sudden, with no previous contempt for the Republic or the Jedi, or any previous desire to establish authoritarian rule, they attempt to do just that. Why? Because the Republic and the Jedi stand in their way, they block the path to power. Why do the Sith wan't power? Good question, they just do. They have no real goals, they just want more and more power. Traya and Vectivus where they only Sith who broke away from this, they had their own goals, goals uninfluenced by the dark side.

 

Vectivus was Sith, he used the dark side just as any other Sith did. He was merely not obsessed with conquering the galaxy for no apparent reason, seems the opposite of disturbed to me. And yes, Traya was physically corrupted by the dark side. But that is a result of her 'indoctrination' if you like, to the dark side by the Sith assassins of Malachor V. Who overwhelmed her with Malachor's dark energies. Her corrupted appearance was the result, however after that she made her own path. And rose above her emotions. Vitiate is something of an enigma, he displays the qualities of one who has focused their power, he is cunning and manipulative. And yet he also seems to have become utterly consumed by the dark side, he is so hell bent on achieving absolute power that he is prepared to destroy the entire universe to stop himself from losing it. I'd say he's an entirely different class altogether, 'insane' comes to mind.

 

In many ways the OP is right, emotions are for the weak. They are the quick path to power, only through meditation and concentration can you overcome your emotions and wield the dark side to its full potential.

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do they really need to hold a grudge to raid them? sheer joy of combat isnt enough ? exhilirating chaos at work and undoing of those who opposed them ? both, Jedi and Sith are cultists, both indoctrinate, it is not like a Jedi who leaves academy is not bend on defeating Sith. but isnt in fact power itself the greatest goal for an individual or group? to do whatever you want, you dont need government or anything else, you simply enjoy your moments in whatever way you want, you are not bend on serving but living the life you want, how long you want.

and I think this is the best presented by this probably most known quote about Emperor:

"You discern a fraction of reality. Beyond these stars exist other galaxies, other worlds, other beings. I will experience or ignore them as I wish. I will spend eternity becoming everything: a farmer, an artist, a simple man. When the last living thing in the universe finally dies, I will enjoy peace and wait for the cycle to begin again."

 

she was simply corrupted, body and mind just her ways were different, most probably because she lacked power to achiev other goals.

 

most Sith meditate, it is not uncommon practise for them

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do they really need to hold a grudge to raid them? sheer joy of combat isnt enough ? exhilirating chaos at work and undoing of those who opposed them ? both, Jedi and Sith are cultists, both indoctrinate, it is not like a Jedi who leaves academy is not bend on defeating Sith. but isnt in fact power itself the greatest goal for an individual or group? to do whatever you want, you dont need government or anything else, you simply enjoy your moments in whatever way you want, you are not bend on serving but living the life you want, how long you want.

and I think this is the best presented by this probably most known quote about Emperor:

"You discern a fraction of reality. Beyond these stars exist other galaxies, other worlds, other beings. I will experience or ignore them as I wish. I will spend eternity becoming everything: a farmer, an artist, a simple man. When the last living thing in the universe finally dies, I will enjoy peace and wait for the cycle to begin again."

 

she was simply corrupted, body and mind just her ways were different, most probably because she lacked power to achiev other goals.

 

most Sith meditate, it is not uncommon practise for them

Exactly, Sith go on blind rampages with no real goals. They destroy because they can. To what end? They don't care. Power itself is rarely the goal of a group or an individual, power is a tool to achieve other things e.g. government, freedom, wealth, pleasure, peace etc. The Jedi don't want power, they only want peace. Most Sith just want power for powers sake. This is where they fail because if they continue to pursue power with no real goals or aims, the power will consume them, their quest will eventual end and they will be destroyed. The Emperor was paranoid, and his quest for power drove him to insanity. The quote shows he had become trapped in a perpetual cycle of a never ending quest for power which could only end one way: with his inevitable destruction.

 

And yes, Sith meditate. But they rely on emotions to achieve immediate power. Sith sorcery and meditation are just steps towards achieving true power, in ways other than grasping blindly for it.

 

And about Traya, other goals? She was the only Sith whoever had a goal that didn't involve claiming power for powers sake.

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I am of the opinion that the Force has a will, Celestials, the Ones, the Chosen One etc. all point to this being the case.

 

However ultimately its irrelevant. Its not so much the Force telling them what to do, but the power promised by the dark side compelling them to desire more and more power for its own sake, in a sense they become 'addicted' to the dark side. Take the Sith of the Order of the Sith Lords. Why were they so hell bent on destroying the Republic and the Jedi? What personal grievances did they hold against them? None. Heck many of the Sith in the Order where just random force sensitives indoctrinated into Sith teachings, then all of a sudden, with no previous contempt for the Republic or the Jedi, or any previous desire to establish authoritarian rule, they attempt to do just that. Why? Because the Republic and the Jedi stand in their way, they block the path to power. Why do the Sith wan't power? Good question, they just do. They have no real goals, they just want more and more power. Traya and Vectivus where they only Sith who broke away from this, they had their own goals, goals uninfluenced by the dark side.

 

Vectivus was Sith, he used the dark side just as any other Sith did. He was merely not obsessed with conquering the galaxy for no apparent reason, seems the opposite of disturbed to me. And yes, Traya was physically corrupted by the dark side. But that is a result of her 'indoctrination' if you like, to the dark side by the Sith assassins of Malachor V. Who overwhelmed her with Malachor's dark energies. Her corrupted appearance was the result, however after that she made her own path. And rose above her emotions. Vitiate is something of an enigma, he displays the qualities of one who has focused their power, he is cunning and manipulative. And yet he also seems to have become utterly consumed by the dark side, he is so hell bent on achieving absolute power that he is prepared to destroy the entire universe to stop himself from losing it. I'd say he's an entirely different class altogether, 'insane' comes to mind.

 

In many ways the OP is right, emotions are for the weak. They are the quick path to power, only through meditation and concentration can you overcome your emotions and wield the dark side to its full potential.

 

I always got the impression it was (from a film stand point) that giving into one's emotions was giving into the dark side in so much as it was the road of easiest travel. Easier to obtain the power you want by going DS than obtaining the power you want and being LS.

 

One says more training, the other says, don't have time, need it all now!

 

They say give into your emotions, your passion, and love for others can be both of those.

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Exactly, Sith go on blind rampages with no real goals. They destroy because they can. To what end? They don't care. Power itself is rarely the goal of a group or an individual, power is a tool to achieve other things e.g. government, freedom, wealth, pleasure, peace etc. The Jedi don't want power, they only want peace. Most Sith just want power for powers sake. This is where they fail because if they continue to pursue power with no real goals or aims, the power will consume them, their quest will eventual end and they will be destroyed. The Emperor was paranoid, and his quest for power drove him to insanity. The quote shows he had become trapped in a perpetual cycle of a never ending quest for power which could only end one way: with his inevitable destruction.

 

And yes, Sith meditate. But they rely on emotions to achieve immediate power. Sith sorcery and meditation are just steps towards achieving true power, in ways other than grasping blindly for it.

 

And about Traya, other goals? She was the only Sith whoever had a goal that didn't involve claiming power for powers sake.

there are no such things like "real goals", every goal is worth the same. To experience everything you want, first you require unqustioned power. In the SW vast galaxy those who want everything are obliged to go after it. Peace is a lie, a key to progress was always in passion, chaos in form of war or any other form that pumped need of advancement, Sith enjoy their infinite combat voyages, it is their purpose, to test themselves.No one can become consumed by power, it is just a quote people like to use when their relatives achiev something, do dirty things and alienate themselve. Sith are ready do destroy and be destroyed, they dont ask for mercy nor give it. They are much more fulfilled in their lives than jedi who whole their lives supress emotions and are at conflict with themselves just because code says so.

 

hes far from paranoid, he was even calm when JK caused some troubles. he doesnt care for little flies.

that quote says that he wants to live however he want to, unrestricted by laws of a mere mortals. He is definately not insane, hes simply intelligent beyond measure of those who sorrounds him. after all, he lived for 36k years after TOR, so he will Survive this battle and any that will become - and what I can speculate about his death is that he chose it for himself after he got bored

 

and Traya wasnt exactly the most calm person from what I remember

Edited by Surinen
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If you're looking for examples of how fear or anger in real life would help some one.

 

You can't use a football game as an example of "anger" we're talking about Hate, Rage, Seething and Loathing the want for something to end as slowly and painfully as possible, This can insight blood lusts which can cause people to sort of black out and forget large swaths of what occurred, this would be the caveat of what i'd imagine the Jedi strive for which is "Wu Wei." Acting without acting, Performing such a fluid and precise motion that you feel as though you didn't perform it your self. This is something real people do all the time, it's most common in sports and you say it's harder to achieve when you're angry because when you're angry you're distracted. When you hate, you have only one thing on your mind.

 

People who have had boulders fall on them find miraculous strength because they are afraid of death, this is the most primal, instinctual, basic of emotions. The unadulterated want to live. Fear is taught to Sith Acolytes because they are constantly shadowed by a master who could take their life at any minute. They live in a culture where murder, power grabs, and mutiny is common place. Paranoia is what controls people, but when your life is in danger and you are unsure if you will live moment to moment the amount of stress that would be flooding your system is unimaginable. When a being is scared for its life, it will lash out and sacrifice part of it self to continue living in most cases.

 

The Sith you idolize in the movies are fat cats where the only thing they have nothing to fear, and remember it all starts with fear.

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I just watched a Darth

Severin

kill off three Imperial Officers, after half the crew was killed, because they were alive when the Captain had died.

 

If that's not stupidity rage, what is it? :p

 

And that's why my SI ended up mostly LS. She thought ahead. Was she always right? No. But part of that was just because the game won't let you be :p "Oh hey! Look! choices! They're all the same. They all suck. But you get a choice in how the obvious bad choice will play out!"

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I just watched a Darth

Severin

kill off three Imperial Officers, after half the crew was killed, because they were alive when the Captain had died.

 

If that's not stupidity rage, what is it? :p

 

And that's why my SI ended up mostly LS. She thought ahead. Was she always right? No. But part of that was just because the game won't let you be :p "Oh hey! Look! choices! They're all the same. They all suck. But you get a choice in how the obvious bad choice will play out!"

he issued collective responsibility - also, it says bad about officers to be alive when captain is dead, they were obliged to resist and fight but they prioritized their own survival. I would say that he was merciful on them, he should torture them for failure.

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there are no such things like "real goals", every goal is worth the same. To experience everything you want, first you require unqustioned power. In the SW vast galaxy those who want everything are obliged to go after it. Peace is a lie, a key to progress was always in passion, chaos in form of war or any other form that pumped need of advancement, Sith enjoy their infinite combat voyages, it is their purpose, to test themselves.No one can become consumed by power, it is just a quote people like to use when their relatives achiev something, do dirty things and alienate themselve. Sith are ready do destroy and be destroyed, they dont ask for mercy nor give it. They are much more fulfilled in their lives than jedi who whole their lives supress emotions and are at conflict with themselves just because code says so.

 

hes far from paranoid, he was even calm when JK caused some troubles. he doesnt care for little flies.

that quote says that he wants to live however he want to, unrestricted by laws of a mere mortals. He is definately not insane, hes simply intelligent beyond measure of those who sorrounds him. after all, he lived for 36k years after TOR, so he will Survive this battle and any that will become - and what I can speculate about his death is that he chose it for himself after he got bored

 

and Traya wasnt exactly the most calm person from what I remember

By 'real goals' I mean goals that are there own. Goals they make for themselves. Arguably yes, for a Sith to achieve want they want they need ultimate power. But do they know what they want? What are they going to do when they achieve ultimate power? "First you require unquestioned power" and second? What did Sidious do when he achieved the Grand Plan, sat on his throne and began ensuring he would not lose that power. That's the problem, they get caught in an endless power cycle - achieve power > preserve it > gain more power > preserve it > gain more power > preserve it. And so when they finally die, they really have achieved nothing, they leave little legacy. What legacy did Sidious leave? A Galactic Empire which was eventually torn apart because he didn't not name a successor, and ultimately because it was a tool for him to achieve power. Sure he unlocked the mysteries of the dark side, but ultimately he didn't employ his powers to do anything meaningful.

 

And from looking back a Galactic History, the Sith Emperor didn't achieve anything meaningful either. He failed and left no legacy. And yes he was paranoid, the only thing he feared was death. And all his plans were designed to avoid it. By destroying the entire universe, nothing could ever kill him. But maybe I'm wrong about the Emperor, maybe he didn't just want to escape death. I suppose he really wanted to become a god, and be able to experience all forms of life. And he did achieve complete detachment from his emotions. I'm not really sure where to place him, he could be a Raw Sith, an Uber-Focused Sith or just plain insane. And he chose to die because he was bored? That's insane, that's stupid. Fortunately its not true, otherwise the Emperor would be a categorical idiot. I'm afraid the Emperor is dead. For now.

 

And yes, you can be consumed by power. For example, Darth Vader. Why did he 'fall' to the dark side? To save Padme. What happened? He was consumed by the dark side and ended up killing her. And then take Darth Nihilus, he wasn't even a man anymore, in fact it would be a stretch to call him sentient. He had be completely consumed by his hunger and wanted nothing more but to consume.

 

And remember, I'm not talking Jedi calm here e.g. rejecting your emotions completely. An Uber-Sith can still feel emotion, they can still feel anger, hate, frustration etc. they just don't let those emotions control them. Ever. Traya never let her emotions control her.

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I always got the impression it was (from a film stand point) that giving into one's emotions was giving into the dark side in so much as it was the road of easiest travel. Easier to obtain the power you want by going DS than obtaining the power you want and being LS.

 

One says more training, the other says, don't have time, need it all now!

 

They say give into your emotions, your passion, and love for others can be both of those.

Yes but that's one way of seeing the dark side, the Jedi way. After all the Force is 'transcendent' if you like, right? It encompasses light and dark, its all-powerful and above all other life forms. So it stands to reason that giving into ones emotions is not the only way to achieve dark side power, the Force isn't that trivial, its beyond petty mortal things such as emotions. Emotions are the easy path to the dark side, but not the only path. Take Sith sorcery for example, to wield it takes practice, study, patience and meditation. You can't just embrace your emotions are start conjuring Sith magic. You have to unlock its power just like a Jedi would. So why can't you do this for the dark side itself? Using your emotions gives quick and easy power, but studying the Force gives even greater and long term power. And of course, to achieve real power, you need focus.

 

Do you see what I mean?

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By 'real goals' I mean goals that are there own. Goals they make for themselves. Arguably yes, for a Sith to achieve want they want they need ultimate power. But do they know what they want? What are they going to do when they achieve ultimate power? "First you require unquestioned power" and second? What did Sidious do when he achieved the Grand Plan, sat on his throne and began ensuring he would not lose that power. That's the problem, they get caught in an endless power cycle - achieve power > preserve it > gain more power > preserve it > gain more power > preserve it. And so when they finally die, they really have achieved nothing, they leave little legacy. What legacy did Sidious leave? A Galactic Empire which was eventually torn apart because he didn't not name a successor, and ultimately because it was a tool for him to achieve power. Sure he unlocked the mysteries of the dark side, but ultimately he didn't employ his powers to do anything meaningful.

 

And from looking back a Galactic History, the Sith Emperor didn't achieve anything meaningful either. He failed and left no legacy. And yes he was paranoid, the only thing he feared was death. And all his plans were designed to avoid it. By destroying the entire universe, nothing could ever kill him. But maybe I'm wrong about the Emperor, maybe he didn't just want to escape death. I suppose he really wanted to become a god, and be able to experience all forms of life. And he did achieve complete detachment from his emotions. I'm not really sure where to place him, he could be a Raw Sith, an Uber-Focused Sith or just plain insane. And he chose to die because he was bored? That's insane, that's stupid. Fortunately its not true, otherwise the Emperor would be a categorical idiot. I'm afraid the Emperor is dead. For now.

 

And yes, you can be consumed by power. For example, Darth Vader. Why did he 'fall' to the dark side? To save Padme. What happened? He was consumed by the dark side and ended up killing her. And then take Darth Nihilus, he wasn't even a man anymore, in fact it would be a stretch to call him sentient. He had be completely consumed by his hunger and wanted nothing more but to consume.

 

And remember, I'm not talking Jedi calm here e.g. rejecting your emotions completely. An Uber-Sith can still feel emotion, they can still feel anger, hate, frustration etc. they just don't let those emotions control them. Ever. Traya never let her emotions control her.

what? isnt ultimate power enough to be happy? not every owner of the knife keeps it for action purpose, there are those who simply look at them and enjoy fabrics. preserving power is required, after all, when you have a good time obliterating those lesser beings, they have this horrible attitutde to meddle with your plans, so it is required to stomp them from time to time, and when they grow stronger you realise that your stomping is going too slow, so more power is required, another funky goal to accomplish. endless cycle of carnage. meaningful, for him it was definately meaningful, he enjoyed power, pulling strings, he enjoyed many things.

 

Sith Emperor afraid of death? he seems to despite it rather than fear. and there is nothing idiotic and insane/stupid in wanting death after experiencing many things, after all a true death is one of those experiences he lacked, after achieving what he wanted, tasting it, death seems to be a good choice in the end.

 

Anakin was impulsive and young, it is difficult to tell if he got consumed by anything more than being jelous, he didnt want to kill her, and he didnt kill her, she lost a will to live because ( probably because of her slow mind ) and Nihilus, he was simply ill and hungry because of it.

 

She was just an old woman, pathetic and weak, it wouldnt be a surprise if her whole goal was dictated by emotion and being hurt - it seems to be the main reason for her actions, weakness, just an idealistic girl who got bitter because the world wasnt the way she wanted it to be - more of teenage drama.

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what? isnt ultimate power enough to be happy? not every owner of the knife keeps it for action purpose, there are those who simply look at them and enjoy fabrics. preserving power is required, after all, when you have a good time obliterating those lesser beings, they have this horrible attitutde to meddle with your plans, so it is required to stomp them from time to time, and when they grow stronger you realise that your stomping is going too slow, so more power is required, another funky goal to accomplish. endless cycle of carnage. meaningful, for him it was definately meaningful, he enjoyed power, pulling strings, he enjoyed many things.

 

Sith Emperor afraid of death? he seems to despite it rather than fear. and there is nothing idiotic and insane/stupid in wanting death after experiencing many things, after all a true death is one of those experiences he lacked, after achieving what he wanted, tasting it, death seems to be a good choice in the end.

 

Anakin was impulsive and young, it is difficult to tell if he got consumed by anything more than being jelous, he didnt want to kill her, and he didnt kill her, she lost a will to live because ( probably because of her slow mind ) and Nihilus, he was simply ill and hungry because of it.

 

She was just an old woman, pathetic and weak, it wouldnt be a surprise if her whole goal was dictated by emotion and being hurt - it seems to be the main reason for her actions, weakness, just an idealistic girl who got bitter because the world wasnt the way she wanted it to be - more of teenage drama.

Fair point. But power for powers sake seems rather pointless. I think all Sith should have a goal other than power that they really want to achieve. But that's detracting from my point. My point is that it is the dark side that fuels that desire for power, not themselves. Take away the dark side and they would want something different. Not the case for everyone but for most. The dark side if not properly controlled twists the user and turns them into something they are not, and to lose ones identity is a sad fate indeed.

 

And the Sith Emperor is afraid of death. Or at least he is according to the writers of SWTOR. It says in one of his codexes that the only thing he feared was death. Yes I expect he 'hated' death. But then again you can't really hate an intangible concept. And he definitely feared it, because it held power over him. But yes, the Emperor did have a goal in the sense he sought to overcome death and achieve immortality. I think I'd class him as an Uber-Sith because he was like that from birth. So that's three. Did he let himself die because he wanted to experience death? I doubt it, he had plenty of time do so when he conquered the entire universe. And his fear of death would suggest otherwise. I think the JK just bested him. But that's a debate for another time.

 

No he didn't kill her, but Force choking her is just as bad. Anakin wasn't driven to kill Padme out of jealously. That makes little sense. If you re-watch the scene its obvious his dark side fueled emotions have clouded his vision. At first he tries to convince Padme to join him, logical. But then he becomes convinced Padme brought Obi-Wan to kill him which is just plain illogical. And we know its not true. Basically he had become consumed by the dark side and failed to control his emotions. That's why Obi Wan defeated him, because he had not yet learned to focus his power. And yes Nihilus was 'ill' he had caught something called the corrupted-by-the-dark-side-until-nothing-is-left-but-a-hollow-shell disease. Perfect example of what happens to Sith who fail to control the dark side and let it control them.

 

And Traya was anything but weak. She bested pretty much everyone apart from the Exile. Who was one of the most powerful Jedi who had ever lived. Yes she was bitter and twisted, but those emotions were her own and not fueled by the dark side to such an extent that they drove her. She despised the Jedi Masters for what they did to her, but her ultimate plan was not to kill them, that was just a stepping stone, and she killed them more so because they attempted to cut the Exile of from the Force. Her ultimate goal was to deafen everyone to the Force, because she saw how it manipulated and controlled its users and caused unending death across the galaxy. You can compare her to a teenage girl who was upset because everything didn't go her way. But that's irrelevant, all that matters was that her goals weren't fueled/motivated by the dark side - they were her own. She was not obsessed with power, she was completely prepared to give it up. To her it was a tool, nothing more.

 

P.S. Gaining in the power in the darkside is not 'funky' - Sith are not hippies. :p

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Fair point. But power for powers sake seems rather pointless. I think all Sith should have a goal other than power that they really want to achieve. But that's detracting from my point. My point is that it is the dark side that fuels that desire for power, not themselves. Take away the dark side and they would want something different. Not the case for everyone but for most. The dark side if not properly controlled twists the user and turns them into something they are not, and to lose ones identity is a sad fate indeed.

 

And the Sith Emperor is afraid of death. Or at least he is according to the writers of SWTOR. It says in one of his codexes that the only thing he feared was death. Yes I expect he 'hated' death. But then again you can't really hate an intangible concept. And he definitely feared it, because it held power over him. But yes, the Emperor did have a goal in the sense he sought to overcome death and achieve immortality. I think I'd class him as an Uber-Sith because he was like that from birth. So that's three. Did he let himself die because he wanted to experience death? I doubt it, he had plenty of time do so when he conquered the entire universe. And his fear of death would suggest otherwise. I think the JK just bested him. But that's a debate for another time.

 

No he didn't kill her, but Force choking her is just as bad. Anakin wasn't driven to kill Padme out of jealously. That makes little sense. If you re-watch the scene its obvious his dark side fueled emotions have clouded his vision. At first he tries to convince Padme to join him, logical. But then he becomes convinced Padme brought Obi-Wan to kill him which is just plain illogical. And we know its not true. Basically he had become consumed by the dark side and failed to control his emotions. That's why Obi Wan defeated him, because he had not yet learned to focus his power. And yes Nihilus was 'ill' he had caught something called the corrupted-by-the-dark-side-until-nothing-is-left-but-a-hollow-shell disease. Perfect example of what happens to Sith who fail to control the dark side and let it control them.

 

And Traya was anything but weak. She bested pretty much everyone apart from the Exile. Who was one of the most powerful Jedi who had ever lived. Yes she was bitter and twisted, but those emotions were her own and not fueled by the dark side to such an extent that they drove her. She despised the Jedi Masters for what they did to her, but her ultimate plan was not to kill them, that was just a stepping stone, and she killed them more so because they attempted to cut the Exile of from the Force. Her ultimate goal was to deafen everyone to the Force, because she saw how it manipulated and controlled its users and caused unending death across the galaxy. You can compare her to a teenage girl who was upset because everything didn't go her way. But that's irrelevant, all that matters was that her goals weren't fueled/motivated by the dark side - they were her own. She was not obsessed with power, she was completely prepared to give it up. To her it was a tool, nothing more.

 

P.S. Gaining in the power in the darkside is not 'funky' - Sith are not hippies. :p

thats what I said in the first post about your categorization: you attach values to actions; you say that this is and that is pointless - to me, it holds the same value, if they enjoy it, then why not. ultimate goals seems to be much of a burden and chore that you need to follow every day to have something.

 

one little force choke, suffocating drives endorphines, she was definately enjoying herself in his grip. I dont exactly remember that scene, but he thought that she is conspiring with Obi Wan, heck, I wouldnt be even surprised if he thought that she is romancing him, of course, dark side affected him, but it was his own fault in the first place, he seemed to be irrational and impulsive from the start.

 

who knows, maybe their bitterness bloomed because of the dark side influence - but teenage girl nontheless.

and that is how we skipped main topic to focus on your categories.

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