This is the only MMO i have ever played that doesnt allow for mods. Curse gaming and many other sites provide mods for many games out there that make the experience a LOT more enjoyable. SWTOR has decided to put its customers on rails and this may be good for something, I dont know what, but because of it I find the galactic market horrible in this game. I dont want to spend my time looking up 30 different items to compair prices just so that I can sell my crap, I want something that will check prices and allow me to undercut the other sellers. I want my time to be spent effficiently, not irritated because I have to quest to make money or because I have to do searches to sell some item for 400 credits.... and speaking of the market....since I cant have my own vendors why cant my items be on the market longer?

I havent sold anything on the market until today and I just got reminded of why I dont. The market mechanics are horrible. Absolutely primitive in todays MMO gaming market. In MMOs that don't fair much better for trade markets, at least you are usually able to right click + shift (or something similar) to add the name of the product into the search engine for the market....not in this game. In this game you have to type in the product name to compair prices...

Number one.... that I have to sell crap on a market means that I already have to waste time to get the itmes....because mind you, I am only here to PvP....I have to date NEVER done a Flashpoint because I dont care to...not my idea of fun. With the pathetic state of the market, I now also have to waste more of my time in order to use the market....because in Blizzard's infinite wisdom they have decided to block the ability for private individuals to create mods for this game. It makes the game irritating. I dont play video games to be irritated.

Blizzard, please get off your rump and create a few small provitions...like you did with allowing users to mod their own interface.....and stop jerking me around on my free-to-pay time in your game. I pay a sub, give me perks that matter. A different looking speeder or clothing....junk. Stupid cake-eater crap that does zero for me.

P.S.

Your market system really bites. Cartel coins for xp...good...cartel coins for image designed junk = emo. Allow scripting and mods because you apparently fail at interface and user friendly interaction.

This is the only MMO i have ever played that doesnt allow for mods. Curse gaming and many other sites provide mods for many games out there that make the experience a LOT more enjoyable. SWTOR has decided to put its customers on rails and this may be good for something, I dont know what, but because of it I find the galactic market horrible in this game. I dont want to spend my time looking up 30 different items to compair prices just so that I can sell my crap, I want something that will check prices and allow me to undercut the other sellers. I want my time to be spent effficiently, not irritated because I have to quest to make money or because I have to do searches to sell some item for 400 credits.... and speaking of the market....since I cant have my own vendors why cant my items be on the market longer?

 

I havent sold anything on the market until today and I just got reminded of why I dont. The market mechanics are horrible. Absolutely primitive in todays MMO gaming market. In MMOs that don't fair much better for trade markets, at least you are usually able to right click + shift (or something similar) to add the name of the product into the search engine for the market....not in this game. In this game you have to type in the product name to compair prices...

 

Number one.... that I have to sell crap on a market means that I already have to waste time to get the itmes....because mind you, I am only here to PvP....I have to date NEVER done a Flashpoint because I dont care to...not my idea of fun. With the pathetic state of the market, I now also have to waste more of my time in order to use the market....because in Blizzard's infinite wisdom they have decided to block the ability for private individuals to create mods for this game. It makes the game irritating. I dont play video games to be irritated.

 

Blizzard, please get off your rump and create a few small provitions...like you did with allowing users to mod their own interface.....and stop jerking me around on my free-to-pay time in your game. I pay a sub, give me perks that matter. A different looking speeder or clothing....junk. Stupid cake-eater crap that does zero for me.

 

P.S.

 

Your market system really bites. Cartel coins for xp...good...cartel coins for image designed junk = emo. Allow scripting and mods because you apparently fail at interface and user friendly interaction.

i assume you mean bioware not blizzard i honestly like the fact they don't have mods i hated that about wow

i assume you mean bioware not blizzard i honestly like the fact they don't have mods i hated that about wow

I think it's pretty obvious what game OP was playing last month. And I must say, I'm extremely happy with the absence of mods as well.

BIOWARE could perhaps improve the GTN interface, as well as add a few other features, but I'm glad they left out the mods and hope those will never be implemented either.

Hey lazy guy,

If you lack the motor skill to move your hands a bit to type a name go back to Pandaland, not everyone need a crutch for everything they do.

Signed a GTN powerseller.

P.s. WoW was killed by mods making the the game so trivial, it wasnt worth the attention of most of the Adult players.

OP, tell these people what games NOT named WoW you played that allows for mods.

My experience is the opposite actually. WoW was the only one that had a ton of mods in an MMO. Now single player games, yes a ton of them allow it. That's why Bioware's other 2 franchises I touched in the last few years are better on PC than console.

I hate mods. Hate hate hate them. I really hope they don't come to SWTOR. Of course I really don't think they will--as far as I know, WoW is about the only MMO that has mods.

The GTN could stand to be much, much better though. The best auction house interface I ever saw was in Rift--you could drag and drop items right into the search box to see what the going rate was for something you wanted to sell, for stackable items it displayed both the total price AND the price per unit. You could post items at a single price for a stack or a price per unit. I'd love to see the GTN have the functionality of Rift's auction house. The GTN isn't awful, it just isn't good.

Interesting to see all the hate on mods.

I love mods, and the reason is simple. In most games with mods, the community and mod developers do a better job of coming up and delivering UI customizations and enhancements than the game developers.

Thus in games with mods I am able to make my UI minimal (dropping all the superfluous skinning, unused elements, and stuff like portraits) while highly functional by being able to highlight information that is important to me (my procs, buffs, ability cooldowns and specific debuffs).

On the GTN front, with mods we'd most likely already have the ability to search and sort significantly more efficient than today while being able to easily determine an items worth without having to maintain out of game spreadsheets.

Of course some people like a few posters in this thread would not want such mods (or improvements by Bioware) as they live online and spend all day camped at the GTN searching over and over and cannot stand the thought that a normal player could come to the GTN and in a few clicks actually find something or have a good idea of its value.

Of course I'd like to see mods restricted through the API such that they could not automate game play. That type of mod is not something I'd like to see added to SWTOR.

Interesting to see all the hate on mods.

 

I love mods, and the reason is simple. In most games with mods, the community and mod developers do a better job of coming up and delivering UI customizations and enhancements than the game developers.

 

Thus in games with mods I am able to make my UI minimal (dropping all the superfluous skinning, unused elements, and stuff like portraits) while highly functional by being able to highlight information that is important to me (my procs, buffs, ability cooldowns and specific debuffs).

 

On the GTN front, with mods we'd most likely already have the ability to search and sort significantly more efficient than today while being able to easily determine an items worth without having to maintain out of game spreadsheets.

 

Of course some people like a few posters in this thread would not want such mods (or improvements by Bioware) as they live online and spend all day camped at the GTN searching over and over and cannot stand the thought that a normal player could come to the GTN and in a few clicks actually find something or have a good idea of its value.

While I agree with you on your comments about the GTN, I too hate mods.

I hate the fact that in "WoW" for instance that to "play effectively" now one "must have" mods (or so it would seem). This is the impression one gets when attempting to do most things with "guilds". Don't have the right mods and you won't get a slot to raid, etc. I find mods to be a crutch. Play the game as intended.

I think it's pretty obvious what game OP was playing last month. And I must say, I'm extremely happy with the absence of mods as well.

BIOWARE could perhaps improve the GTN interface, as well as add a few other features, but I'm glad they left out the mods and hope those will never be implemented either.

Your assumption is wrong, it was a slip of the though process to say Blizzard. I havent played World Of Whatever in two years, but I do feel that game has a lot bettter mechanics in relation to its trade market.

Apparently some dont like mods, and I respect that you dont. I dont know why, but okay. As for myself, I have a real life...family and friends to do things with that arent in a fictional world. Time is the one thing you can never get back so if mods reduce wasted time in a video game then I am all for them.

What most people dont care for are mods that are scripts doing everything for other players. Face it, a lot of people are just tards when it comes to scripting or addon mods....and of course they hat them. Give me a better galactic market and I can live with the rest of the bugs.

All of this is my opinion, so flame on if you are bored or if you have some relevant information to add or your own personal opinion, let it be heard.

it displayed both the total price AND the price per unit.

Highlight buyout price for stacks, unit price will be there.

T I want my time to be spent effficiently, not irritated because I have to quest to make money...

Snipped the rest because this is exactly why they don't allow mods in SWTOR. You need to play the game as it was meant to be played. Mods quite often give players an unfair advantage. This is why some mods in WoW are no longer allowed. It got to the point in that game where mods could virtually play your character for you.

Now, your gripes about the GTN sound legit. I couldn't care less about the market and hardly ever go there, but I know a lot of people do. A mod allowing for searching, buying and selling items more efficiently might be a good idea based on what I've read about the lack of the GTN's functionality.

But again, it's a slippery slope. Once you do that then it becomes a "mandatory" mod that you have to have to be competitive.

Snipped the rest because this is exactly why they don't allow mods in SWTOR. You need to play the game as it was meant to be played. Mods quite often give players an unfair advantage. This is why some mods in WoW are no longer allowed. It got to the point in that game where mods could virtually play your character for you.

 

Now, your gripes about the GTN sound legit. I couldn't care less about the market and hardly ever go there, but I know a lot of people do. A mod allowing for searching, buying and selling items more efficiently might be a good idea based on what I've read about the lack of the GTN's functionality.

 

But again, it's a slippery slope. Once you do that then it becomes a "mandatory" mod that you have to have to be competitive.

Great points. Thank you and the rest for your input. I think it boils down to sloppy game mechanics and sloppy programming to have a trade market as bad as what is provided in this game currently and if that is resolved at some point I and those who feel the same will have a lot less to gripe about. Good luck in your game.

I do not think that mods are the way to solve this issue.

As has been mentioned the issue with mods can be expressed a few ways.

The first and possibly the most concerning is the way it skews the experience. Once upon a time I know that WoW had third party apps that could tabulate average prices right down to a per server basis. More than that they even partially automated the use of the Auction House in terms of listings. When you skew a function that far, to the point of automation, you create a sort of split in the player base. Those who play with an advantage and those who do not. The problem there is it creates a situation where may now need to play with said mods to be on even footing because of the advantages it creates.

The second problem is on the back end. As has been mentioned allowing third party applications is a slippery slope because it can be difficult to curtail access to the software once they can plug in. So what happens when things go beyond what the developer thought of or had in mind? What happens when you can create map overlays that track specific mobs even beyond the size of the mini map (There is such an app for FFXI, unsupported by the devs of course) or even further to apps that can trigger a macro to get claim on a mob literally as it spawns by reacting to the server or client code before the mob can actually spawn on screen (claim bots are not exactly a new idea after all). Then you have clear and unfair advantages between those who use them and those who do not and things have spiraled well beyond the intention of the devs. So they have to either curtail the usage and find ways to detect such mods, or they have to yank mods all together.

Generally speaking neither situation is ideal. On one hand your "best case" creates classes of players where some just have what could be argued an unfair advantage.... and your worst case that "advantage" becomes game breaking to the point the dev has to take action. It becomes a lose lose scenario.

Ideally the best solution to complaints about a market place or even an interface is not to let a random third party make a mod... but rather to give feed back and suggestion and for the developer to then act on them.

In short, it makes more sense to upgrade/fix the market place to be on par with games like RIFT rather than implement third party access that could lead to more problems down the road.

I do not think that mods are the way to solve this issue.

 

As has been mentioned the issue with mods can be expressed a few ways.

 

The first and possibly the most concerning is the way it skews the experience. Once upon a time I know that WoW had third party apps that could tabulate average prices right down to a per server basis. More than that they even partially automated the use of the Auction House in terms of listings. When you skew a function that far, to the point of automation, you create a sort of split in the player base. Those who play with an advantage and those who do not. The problem there is it creates a situation where may now need to play with said mods to be on even footing because of the advantages it creates.

 

The second problem is on the back end. As has been mentioned allowing third party applications is a slippery slope because it can be difficult to curtail access to the software once they can plug in. So what happens when things go beyond what the developer thought of or had in mind? What happens when you can create map overlays that track specific mobs even beyond the size of the mini map (There is such an app for FFXI, unsupported by the devs of course) or even further to apps that can trigger a macro to get claim on a mob literally as it spawns by reacting to the server or client code before the mob can actually spawn on screen (claim bots are not exactly a new idea after all). Then you have clear and unfair advantages between those who use them and those who do not and things have spiraled well beyond the intention of the devs. So they have to either curtail the usage and find ways to detect such mods, or they have to yank mods all together.

 

Generally speaking neither situation is ideal. On one hand your "best case" creates classes of players where some just have what could be argued an unfair advantage.... and your worst case that "advantage" becomes game breaking to the point the dev has to take action. It becomes a lose lose scenario.

 

Ideally the best solution to complaints about a market place or even an interface is not to let a random third party make a mod... but rather to give feed back and suggestion and for the developer to then act on them.

 

In short, it makes more sense to upgrade/fix the market place to be on par with games like RIFT rather than implement third party access that could lead to more problems down the road.

This, basically. Some things, like the GTN are far from ideal regarding their UI. But that doesn't suddenly mean that we need third party addons. It simply means the interface for that part of the game needs some more work, to make it more intuitive and userfriendly.

Now, a perfect interface will never happen. Some people prefer it one way, others would rather access it from a different angle. Still, sometimes both directions can be integrated within the same interface, WHILE keeping that interface intuitive.

Just compare the interface for our GTN with the market from EVE. They function exactly the same, except that the one from EVE uses a tree-view structure to browse it and find specific items, while TOR uses drop down box selections. Both have their merrits, both have their problems.. The one from EVE is definitely more intuitive, though with the amount of items available, it's not really more userfriendly. I'd classify the one from TOR as neither intuitive nor userfriendly. It definitely has a lot of the features it needs to narrow down a search, but we have to explain how it works in general chat at least a few times a day.

I know, I can't think up a better system for this game right away either, I'd really have to sit down for a while to come up with something fitting with the overall interface design. Though the developers could definitely add some features already to improve things, like the ability to drag an item into the search window and automatically filling in all information for that item, so you just need to hit search, or maybe tweak the search information to widen your results, so you can also search for similar items, instead of only identical ones.

While I agree with you on your comments about the GTN, I too hate mods.

 

I hate the fact that in "WoW" for instance that to "play effectively" now one "must have" mods (or so it would seem). This is the impression one gets when attempting to do most things with "guilds". Don't have the right mods and you won't get a slot to raid, etc. I find mods to be a crutch. Play the game as intended.

You don't NEED mods to play, I personally only use them to clean up my UI and I've been apart of top 100 US kills and such in the past and was quite the dedicated hardcore raider for years.

Hell, I remember killing Archimonde with no UI mods as a healer because they broke midraid for some reason.

You don't NEED mods to play, I personally only use them to clean up my UI and I've been apart of top 100 US kills and such in the past and was quite the dedicated hardcore raider for years.

 

Hell, I remember killing Archimonde with no UI mods as a healer because they broke midraid for some reason.

I agree you don't NEED mods to play. I don't play with any mods. There are guilds that REQUIRE certain mods or you don't get to Raid. Period. End of Story. That is why I am happy there are no Mods, Gear Score Checker, nor damage meters in SWTOR. Helps to reign in the "elitist jerks" that say play their way or no way at all for you.

I agree you don't NEED mods to play. I don't play with any mods. There are guilds that REQUIRE certain mods or you don't get to Raid. Period. End of Story. That is why I am happy there are no Mods, Gear Score Checker, nor damage meters in SWTOR. Helps to reign in the "elitist jerks" that say play their way or no way at all for you.

And most of those guilds aren't good guilds. As I said, I've been apart of what's considered a decent kill time and I've done some of those without DBM. Also, DBM isn't even updated to be correct until a week or 2 in anyways. People play up the mods in WoW way too much, they DO NOT play the game for you and if you're doing anything remotely serious they're generally useless besides for cleaning up your UI.

And most of those guilds aren't good guilds. As I said, I've been apart of what's considered a decent kill time and I've done some of those without DBM. Also, DBM isn't even updated to be correct until a week or 2 in anyways. People play up the mods in WoW way too much, they DO NOT play the game for you and if you're doing anything remotely serious they're generally useless besides for cleaning up your UI.

So basically we are in violent agreement then.

I agree you don't NEED mods to play. I don't play with any mods. There are guilds that REQUIRE certain mods or you don't get to Raid. Period. End of Story. That is why I am happy there are no Mods, Gear Score Checker, nor damage meters in SWTOR. Helps to reign in the "elitist jerks" that say play their way or no way at all for you.

There are damage meters that you can run simultaneously with your game, that if you run in windows mode can show you up to date information.

I understand like any tool it can (and in an MMO community, will be) abused, but damage meters in of themselves are not bad things. They allow people to evaluate their performance and try to really get the most out of their character. Personally I started to enjoy this game 10x more once I found out how to run the damage meter while in game and have that information, because I LOVE to dps, and I LOVE getting the most out of my character and pushing the limits of what he is capable of.

Using it as a "hurrr 1800dps or ****" measuring stick is where people get the stigma from and rightly so. It just needs to be used appropriately.

P.s. WoW was killed by mods making the the game so trivial, it wasnt worth the attention of most of the Adult players.

This.

Mods in WoW made the game far too efficient of a process. Which in my opinion reduced the replay value.

There are damage meters that you can run simultaneously with your game, that if you run in windows mode can show you up to date information.

 

I understand like any tool it can (and in an MMO community, will be) abused, but damage meters in of themselves are not bad things. They allow people to evaluate their performance and try to really get the most out of their character. Personally I started to enjoy this game 10x more once I found out how to run the damage meter while in game and have that information, because I LOVE to dps, and I LOVE getting the most out of my character and pushing the limits of what he is capable of.

 

Using it as a "hurrr 1800dps or ****" measuring stick is where people get the stigma from and rightly so. It just needs to be used appropriately.

But as you said, in an MMO community, it won't be used appropriately. Like in WoW, it will be used as a mechanic for exclusion and not inclusion. Coupled with Gear Score, you begin to see near ludicrous demands for gear and DPS to clear content designed for much lower levels of gear and progression.

It's one of the things that drove me away from WoW. I was never in a serious raiding guild, so if I wanted to do end-game, I'd have to pug it. But like I said, the demands to join a pug raid to do entry level raiding at max level was ridiculous. The same thing would happen here if they allowed mods.

Running your own numbers to make sure you are being as efficient as possible and maybe seeing what you need to do to improve is totally cool. I have no problems with that at all.

But a damage meter that shares out everyone's DPS always leads to bad things, and is never used to do what it was initially designed for, which is to help the individual improve.

Remember, this the MMO community we're talking about here.

I'm mostly fine with the game's inteface, but there are two things that could be improved.

Firstly, the GTN, and in particular commodity market. This has been discussed many time elsewhere, so I don't repeat the details here.

Secondly, I have a large screen and like to keep the clutter to minimum and on the edges of the screen. This however makes it somewhat difficult to notice certain things about my abilities in the heat of battle, while simultaneously keeping an eye on what happens on the battlefield. I'd like to have small status indicators for certain effects next to the cursor, or close to my current target, or in my own nameplate. Like whether a particular ability is available, or a particular proc is up.

Well, imo it's better without mods, because now you have to figure out stuff yourself, and be cautious of what you do (to a certain degree).. if you look at the most popular mods in that other mmo it's just addons to play the game for you, which imo don't make a good gamer.

*Bartender (or variant) : we have that in swtor, in the game itself, and if you play a bit with it you'd be surprised how much you can change it to your personal style.. so this addon would be obsolete.

*Recount (or variant) : we have a replacement for that, and it works prety good, we are using a parser on our guild runs and we have the info we need, not that it's needed imo, when failing an encounter it's mostly clear when it's a healing or a dps issue.

*Deadly Boss Mods : we were always supposed to have this mod if we were raiding serious, but imo it's just a way to compensate for the ignorant people that fail to learn encounter mechanics, i've been playing swtor for a year now and i don't miss that addon at all, instead i learned to watch debuffs myself and be aware of my surroundings (something everyone who raids should do)

*Auctioneer (or variant) : well, this is debatable, since the GTN is far from perfect, but imo it's not as bad as some people make it sound, I've been selling stuff on the GTN myself, and it works prety good, but yes you can't do it all with one click, but a good irl salesman doesn't have a leperchaun to do his work for him either

*Healbot (or variant) : I'm a healer myself (Sage) and tbh, shortcuts work as good as healbot, it's a mater of getting used to it, and i found healing with healbot a bit boring (but thats my opinion), i love ehaling on my sage, and i'm doing fine without an addon like healbot, so imo it's not needed at all

*Gatherer : bluh, do you really need an addon to finding nodes for materials? it's prety clear on the minimap if you ask me, i used it for a week when i was playing wow and never liked it, takes too much memory too

*Atlasloot : even in wow this addon doesn't have much function anymore since they added those journals where you can see bossloot and such, and I don't see how this will help us in swtor, want to know what drops, you can easily alt-tab to swtor-spy or torhead or whatever.

*Calender : those addons are obsolete in wow since they have their own calander, and announced in swtor we will get them too, for guild events and such, so we don't rly need an addon for this either.

Then there's the addons for druids and rogues n such which give you optimal rotation stuff (like mutilate), ok, i can understand, you want an addon that plays the game for you because you fail to understand the mechanics of your class i would suggest reading up a bit, it'll be better for you in the long run