Without a total rethinking and rework of at minimum pvp mechanics at most the whole combat mechanics im afraid this game is accelerating the pace its guttering. Evidence by the last dev chat that hurt more than it helped. Between the clueless devs that dont play their own game and the entitled classes that always think they are gimped. How do you fix it and who do you blame. Nobody imo is 100% at fault. You cant blame players for giving biased opionions and you cant totally fault bioware for listening to them but it would give the devs better tools to weed thru nonsense abd balance better if they had a clue about it by playing it that wya they wouldnt rely on second hand info to balance upon

 

Arenas will only magnify the disparity and lead more ppl to quit thus accelerating the game decline ci hope bioware has plans to completely overhaul the system or at least stem the bleeding cause a bullet wound with a bandaid wont help which is what they habve been doing

Without a total rethinking and rework of at minimum pvp mechanics at most the whole combat mechanics im afraid this game is accelerating the pace its guttering.

This might be true if PvP were even remotely crucial to the game's continued viability.

This might be true if PvP were even remotely crucial to the game's continued viability.

 

Speaking of, is arena supposed to be a subscriber perk, or is it available to F2P?

Speaking of, is arena supposed to be a subscriber perk, or is it available to F2P?

 

I don't think they have specified yet.

 

But I would put money on -----------> ranked play needing to be subscriber or freeb with a ticket to access. Non-ranked.. a bit more fuzzy.. but I bet that has a ticket requirement too.. but lower price.

 

The reason I think this is because they are opening up WZ for unrestricted play by freebs. Which follows the classic model of ------> when you add a new dynamic to the content, you downgrade the old stuff to be free or much lower cost to access.

 

As to the topic here.. meh.. they have said (saw it relayed by another posters yesterday) in the Germany Cantina Tour that they were very aware of Blizzards mistakes in allowing arenas to drive class design... and that they had no intention of slipping on that same banana peel. Besides.. the OP is crazy hurt in the backside over the state of the sin class (in his eyes) and will probably /quitzor over it so I see this thread as an end@game gasp for attention. Fear? lol.... fear about an MMO.. that's funny. They come, they go.. and so do players.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Andryah

Speaking of, is arena supposed to be a subscriber perk, or is it available to F2P?

 

I imagine it'll be very limited (x times per week) if available at all to F2P, since Warzones are going restriction-free.

This might be true if PvP were even remotely crucial to the game's continued viability.

 

Its not pvp only thats a problem. Sins are 2800 dps as best compared to other classes 3200

Speaking of, is arena supposed to be a subscriber perk, or is it available to F2P?

 

Well, Alex Modny did say

 

Available to anyone Level 10 and up!

 

He didn't say subscribers....but, it could certainly be clarified, especially regarding ranked teams.

This game shouldn't be balanced around PvP because it's a mini game of this mmo. The PvE is the focus and will always be the focus. If something ist in the game for PvE and the pvp'ers say that it's op, then it should have a wz debuff or be deactivated, not be tweaked to such a degree that now we have the tankasins are useless, pts are effed and every crying about smash monkies. (Just a couple examples) The game is being steered wildly out of balance trying to balance it for two different play styles. It is simply not working.

This game shouldn't be balanced around PvP because it's a mini game of this mmo. The PvE is the focus and will always be the focus. If something ist in the game for PvE and the pvp'ers say that it's op, then it should have a wz debuff or be deactivated, not be tweaked to such a degree that now we have the tankasins are useless, pts are effed and every crying about smash monkies. (Just a couple examples) The game is being steered wildly out of balance trying to balance it for two different play styles. It is simply not working.

 

In regards to class balance, I think that this game actually is better off balanced around pvp. You say that Pt's and assassin tanks are useless but isnt that only true in the very highest level of pve content? Like NM mode stuff? If thats the case then it seems like it would be better to focus on making the classes viable in pvp where you have like 50% of the players regularly participating rather than high level pve that casual players have a harder time getting into. PvP might be a mini game but a heck of a lot more people are playing it than are playing the content that is negatively affected by its class balance.

@Miggzy, I play all classes with an advanced class in each (impside and a couple mirrors) and for ranked and NiM yes they aren't desirable but any class and any spec can do well in regs and HM flash points. The reason PT was nerfed because of the PvP qq, which to me anyway, shouldn't matter to the PvE side of anything. Which I'm cool with because I love tanking on my PT more than any other tank class. Seems more fun to me. But if the classes were all the same since launch and they just wz nerfed some abilities to bring the glaring PvP differences in check, I think the game would be way better off than it is now.

The could have the same abilities function differently in pvp and pve and would save the balance on both fronts

I doubt that PVP problems are going to sink this game. I have yet to see ANY game that has PVP as a part of a complete MMO tank due to bad PVP or PVP problems.

 

The PVP community is just not large enough, and this game is hardly a huge draw for PVP players IMO.

Its not a pvp only problem its a bad way of calculating numbers and stats. The way the calculate base and modifiers like crit for example

This might be true if PvP were even remotely crucial to the game's continued viability.

 

Queue for a warzone and see how quickly 16 people get matched up into a game. Now queue for a SM Ops group and see how long you wait. PvP isn't crucuial? I think you are wrong sir...

Queue for a warzone and see how quickly 16 people get matched up into a game. Now queue for a SM Ops group and see how long you wait. PvP isn't crucuial? I think you are wrong sir...

 

PUG WZ's require no tactics, no arrangement, no specific class balance, no gear, dying is free and they can be run as many times a week as you can manage assuming you have a pass.

 

Even if you lose every time you are rewarded with comms and cash, and at most you are busy for 15 mins.

 

Ops require a specific balance of classes and specs, knowledge of the encounters, half decent gear, at least an hour of your time (even with a decent group) and if you manage to complete one you are locked out of it for the rest of the week (meaning most people dont run them as pugs)

 

If you fail, you get nothing but a repair bill.

 

Now, can you figure out why the wz queue might be quicker than the GF Ops queue?

Edited August 31, 2013 by jedip_enguin

Well, now, there are going to be people that disagree, say that PVP is a majority or the game should be balanced around it...and I don't think that opinion means the person deserves disrespect. If one is a fan of a certain aspect of a game they will likely defend it...after all, what do they know of the game except what they love?

 

I do not agree with either sentiment. But I understand why they might have it. I just find it unrealistic.

Edited August 31, 2013 by LordArtemis

Queue for a warzone and see how quickly 16 people get matched up into a game. Now queue for a SM Ops group and see how long you wait. PvP isn't crucuial? I think you are wrong sir...

 

How about queue for pvp as a tank vs queue for an instance as a tank

 

Look I can point at two completely different things and say how they're comparable too!

Edited August 31, 2013 by hadoken

This might be true if PvP were even remotely crucial to the game's continued viability.

 

More and more people have come to understand it very much is.

 

Lvling in TOR is a process with exceptionally low re-play value, when compared to WoW and co. Modest amount of zones(=planets) to pick from; trail you walk is always more or less the same. Questing as an experience is highly obsolete one;TBC era WoW had more fun and variety in terms of what you actually *do* when you are out there questing.

 

Lvling via WZs on the other hand, is surprisingly balanced and entertaining trip to make. This is one category where actual game mechanics of TOR shine brigter than any other WoW clone out there, WoW itself included. With all this in mind, it is exceptionally unsurprising how WZs keep getting more and more visibility in terms of what people in-game actually do and talk about.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Stradlin

More and more people have come to understand it very much is.

 

Lvling in TOR is a process with exceptionally low re-play value, when compared to WoW and co. Questing as an experience is highly obsolete one. This wouldn't matter if end game PvE was vibrant and captivating thing to get involved in.

 

Lvling via WZs on the other hand, is surprisingly balanced and entertaining trip to make. This is one category where actual game mechanics of TOR shine brigter than any other WoW clone out there, WoW itself included. With all this in mind, it is exceptionally unsurprising how WZs keep getting more and more visibility in terms of what people in-game actually do and talk about.

 

My experience is the complete opposite (can't stand leveling via warzones). No, in general the pvp community in MMOs is a vocal minority.

Edited August 31, 2013 by hadoken

My experience is the complete opposite (can't stand leveling via warzones). No, in general the pvp community in MMOs is a vocal minority.

 

Your subjective experience is as irrelevant as mine here.. Larger and larger % of people who not only try TOR but end up sticking around do more and more WZs** Everything else, in terms of game mechanics, has greener grass growing in some game or another. In lowbie WZ PVP, TOR shines. This one slice is more entertaining than it's counterpart in any other game. So it isn't surprising it is " trending upwards"

 

If it weren't, do you think we'd get suck content patches?

 

** Since I usually lvl via WZs, I've ended up doing /Whoing. Loads of it. I like to know how many games of my bracket are on, who is playing etc. Amount of games on at once has grown steadily for as long as I've paid attention to such things(Feb/March of this year and onwards)

Edited August 31, 2013 by Stradlin

Your subjective experience is as irrelevant as mine here.. Larger and larger % of people who not only try TOR but end up sticking around do more and more WZs** Everything else, in terms of game mechanics, has greener grass growing in some game or another. In lowbie WZ PVP, TOR shines. This one slice is more entertaining than it's counterpart in any other game. So it isn't surprising it is " trending upwards"

 

If it weren't, do you think we'd get suck content patches?

 

** Since I usually lvl via WZs, I've ended up doing /Whoing. Loads of it. I like to know how many games of my bracket are on, who is playing etc. Amount of games on at once has grown steadily for as long as I've paid attention to such things(Feb/March of this year and onwards)

 

Most of the PVPers I've seen are claiming exactly that, they're favoring PVE content heavily

 

And I'm SURE the increase in warzone population has nothing to do with an increase in population overall, and I'm sure you also did your due diligence and compared the increase in WZ population to the increase in planet/instance population too...right?

Edited August 31, 2013 by hadoken

Most of the PVPers I've seen are claiming exactly that, they're favoring PVE content heavily

 

And I'm SURE the increase in warzone population has nothing to do with an increase in population overall, and I'm sure you also did your due diligence and compared the increase in WZ population to the increase in planet/instance population too...right?

 

 

I'm quite sure population has, at most, stayed stable since February/March. I'm absolutely certain it has not been steadily increasing in same fashion popularity of WZs has.

 

Technically it is Cash shop content that gets favored, not PvP or Pve. Out of PvE/PvP, former has traditionally been favored, I don't think anyone has reason to think otherwise. I'm just believing and hoping the steady increase of popularity of PvP among players will gain it increasingly larger foothold in terms of effort-by-devs, too. Finally getting major content patches purely dedicated for PvP is a promising sign, for sure.

 

As a (MMO) player, I am not some die hard born to fight PvP person. In most all MMOs, I've enjoyed end game raiding and PvE the most. I wouldn't even consider playing TOR in a setting where PvP and lvling new chars via it wasn't in central position of my experience. Nothing in this game is as fun. And lvling via PvP isn't as fun is any other WoW clone.

Edited August 31, 2013 by Stradlin

I'm quite sure population has, at most, stayed stable since February/March. I'm absolutely certain it has not been steadily increasing in same fashion popularity of WZs has.

 

Oh I'm quite sure of the opposite, considering myself and 6 others came back last month, but I'm sure you have your 'proof' as well

Oh I'm quite sure of the opposite, considering myself and 6 others came back last month, but I'm sure you have your 'proof' as well

Ah, since you and your friends returned to game, then I am sure population keeps increasing yeah.

 

If population were on steady increase, we'd know it. Good news like that gets shouted off rooftops by any and all MMO devs/publishers.

Fleet and starter planets have seen small but steady dicrease in population.

....Tbh I know you know in heart of hears I have the right of it in this regard;p No MMO without some major expansion GAINS players in summer..come on;p

Edited August 31, 2013 by Stradlin

I tire of people who come here to QQ over nothing or over something that was already adressed.

 

Class balances are incoming after patch 2.4 they already said that. They already elected class representatives to collect that feedback. Why do you keep whining like a little spoiled child when the issue IS beeing adressed?

 

Why not bring up the issue with the ghost colldowns/ability delay, wich is incredibly more important to the whole PvP Arenas debate. Cmon... all i see is an unpatient Sin QQ'ing. Try to be more productive.