So basically the OP wants mods that play the game for him....

 

Personally I'm glad Bioware stuck to their guns and don't allow mods and macros.... Take Rift for example if you don't run macros for PvP you don't stand a chance... It ruins MMO's IMO...

I skimmed the OP's post and think he's just trolling. I mean he calls BW Blizzard for crap's sake.

But the vast majority of us asking for mods don't want or even need combat meters or bossmods, let alone castsequence and rotation macros or anything that automates anything. I want to skin my UI into something cleaner and more minimalistic, and I want to move my buff/debuff frames independently of my unit frames, or at least anchor them to another part of the unit frames. I want square indicators on my OPS frames rather than space-hogging icons floating over them. These are things most efficiently left to a modding community, rather than wasting Bioware's resources and time to implement. Let people create their own skins along with their own layouts, give us further customization of our layouts by giving us access to this small part of the API, and it's totally optional, those of us who enjoy the default UI can continue to enjoy it, those of us who just have to get our hands into it and mess it all up can do so, and gameplay is not affected at all.

As someone who had a heavily modded WoW Ui, i can safely say that im glad they dont have them here.

Rescaling and moving is all we really need.

Allowing 3rd party software to modify a game makes easier for cheaters to cheat and not get caught. Not allowing them makes it easier for the GMs to track down and ban cheaters before they can do any real damage to the game and the community.

Want mods? Go back to WoW, kids.

Let this die

Let all the upsets about nerfing everything die, I dont even have a sorc yet an I am STILL ok with bubble stun.

The simple fact of the matter is that the GTN is sorely underdeveloped. What the OP is calling for in terms of mods is really Auctioneer functionality in the GTN; tools that should be available to quickly compare prices, look at market trends, and price items appropriately. Eve has some of those things incorporated into its market interface and it's the best "out of the box" market around.

Mods shouldn't even be needed - the popular functionality that players have added to these games over the years should obviously be clueing devs in to what they should be putting into their games. And again Blizzard seems to be the only one that gets it as they have incorporated many of the most popular mod functionalities into their default UI. (floating combat text, lag compensation on cast bars, quest tracker, etc etc)

We were complaining about the GTN all throughout beta but hardly anything was done with it. IT's very disappointing but it appears they don't take the economy very seriously in this game.

but that's exactly the point. with WoW having as many subscribers as it does, there are still consistent points where a mod breaks irrevocably and players are left scrambling and base UI doesn't offer alternatives.

 

SWTOR has a lot fewer subscribers (which personally doesn't bother me, but YMMV), its NOT going to have nearly as big of a modding community, which means depending on modders is going to get even more precarious. people get bored. people move on. its normal. its expected. especially when they are not payed to continue to work on their projects. how does that make them more reliable when it comes to implementing changes, then developers themselves?

You do not need a large modding community to have a healthy one. But you do not have one at all if you do not open up the API for it, which just nothing but limit players. There's little to no benefit with no modding. Modders do what they do because they enjoy the game their modding and they enjoy modding.

If you think there's a need for compensation beyond that, you'll probably never understand it like some of us who have been PC gamers for 15-20 years or more. So, there's probably no point trying to explain it any further.

Present day gaming companies have turned to not allowing modding so that they can charge players for DLC packs with little to no content and some cosmetic stuff. It's not a necessity in terms of functionality, but they have a lot of gamers fooled into thinking that its cheaper for them. No, they can just charge you more for giving you less. When I have been used to PC game developers giving gamers the options to customize and design content in games themselves.

It's just an experience gap, the previous age versus the current age in PC gaming. There's not really any point in taking it beyond I am used to an older and more liberating gaming experience that has been systematically abolished in favor of charging customers more for less.

Good talking with you, hope you continue to enjoy TOR and get what you want from the devs.

You do not need a large modding community to have a healthy one. But you do not have one at all if you do not open up the API for it, which just nothing but limit players. There's little to no benefit with no modding. Modders do what they do because they enjoy the game their modding and they enjoy modding.

 

If you think there's a need for compensation beyond that, you'll probably never understand it like some of us who have been PC gamers for 15-20 years or more. So, there's probably no point trying to explain it any further.

 

Present day gaming companies have turned to not allowing modding so that they can charge players for DLC packs with little to no content and some cosmetic stuff. It's not a necessity in terms of functionality, but they have a lot of gamers fooled into thinking that its cheaper for them. No, they can just charge you more for giving you less. When I have been used to PC game developers giving gamers the options to customize and design content in games themselves.

 

It's just an experience gap, the previous age versus the current age in PC gaming. There's not really any point in taking it beyond I am used to an older and more liberating gaming experience that has been systematically abolished in favor of charging customers more for less.

 

Good talking with you, hope you continue to enjoy TOR and get what you want from the devs.

heh. i was gaming before intel pentium chip existed. my first pc game, the one that got me into gaming, was "Indiana Jones and Fate of Atlantis". I've been primarily a pc gamer ever since. I mod virtually all my single player games. I've been known to mess around with Heroes of might and magic and warcraft map making utilities. developer toolkits for rpg's sadly go beyond my capabilities or interest. I understand perfectly well that for modders its in the joy of it, that they don't do it for compensation. I love people who create the mods that i can then use and enjoy, I think they are awesome. but I think you misunderstand me, so I'll try again.

because modders do it for fun, for the love of it. its perfectly normal for them to stop having fun and move on. which is not a problem for single player games. but it IS a problem for MMO's, especially for mods that significantly modify the UI. the reason I mentioned compensation is that for developers, for people who run the game - its a job and a responsibility, so they don't have a luxury as a whole, to just say... meh, I don't feel like updating this mod anymore. and this happens all the time in modding community. modders are themselves gamers, obviously. so when they lose an interest in a game? they move on and its absolutely fine. but it does leave people who are still playing in a bit of a pickle. sometimes you have another person pick up where original creator left off. sometimes, you don't.

you think that I don't like flexibility and options? I love them. its just, in my experience, introducing mods to MMOs eventually creates less flexibility, not more.

it was nice talking to you as well, with opinions being on opposite sides and all.

As someone who had a heavily modded WoW Ui, i can safely say that im glad they dont have them here.

 

Rescaling and moving is all we really need.

Completely disagree. Rescaling is crap. Give me more customization of my unit frames. If I cannot move and scale my buff frames independently of my debuff frames and unit frames, it's simply not good enough.

"But you can rescale them, that's good enough." No, it isn't. I cannot increase the height of my health bar without increasing the length and basic scale. I cannot re-anchor my buffs or debuffs. I cannot manage or filter the buffs and debuffs on my ops frames, which are currently stupidly cluttered beyond reason. Letting me customize these things to MY OWN tastes does not give me ANY kind of advantage, it is not game breaking in ANY way.

Modding the API does NOT open the door to undetectable exploitation. People determined to exploit will do so regardless of addon presence, they do not need BW to open up the API to them.

Mods.are.for.bads.

Wanting to reskin my interface makes me bad? Wanting to alter the height of my health bar without changing the width makes me bad? Wanting to anchor my buffs to the side of my unit frames and the debuffs to the bottom makes me bad? Wanting a more robust GTN with data tracking and pricing trends makes me bad? Wanting an inventory that is broken down into categories with a more robust sort feature makes me bad?

Your failure to differentiate castsequence and rotation macros from cosmetic addons does not make anybody bad.

Completely disagree. Rescaling is crap. Give me more customization of my unit frames. If I cannot move and scale my buff frames independently of my debuff frames and cast bars, it's simply not good enough.

 

"But you can rescale them, that's good enough." No, it isn't. I cannot increase the height of my health bar without increasing the length and basic scale. I cannot re-anchor my buffs or debuffs. I cannot manage or filter the buffs and debuffs on my ops frames, which are currently stupidly cluttered beyond reason. Letting me customize these things to MY OWN tastes does not give me ANY kind of advantage, it is not game breaking in ANY way.

 

Modding the API does NOT open the door to undetectable exploitation. People determined to exploit will do so regardless of addon presence, they do not need BW to open up the API to them.

So which is it? You want rescaling or you dont?

I understand what you are asking for, and i think that would be great too. But all you are really asking for is greater access to more Ui Elements so you can ....... scale and filter them as you please.

I dont have exploitation concerns either, so im not sure where you got that from.

The exploitation bit addresses another post I didn't quote.

My point though was that resizing simply is not good enough, and with the halfassed inventory sort feature it's plain as day that Bioware cannot be arsed to give us any kind of robust interface. That is why we need to let players manage that.

heh. i was gaming before intel pentium chip existed. my first pc game, the one that got me into gaming, was "Indiana Jones and Fate of Atlantis". I've been primarily a pc gamer ever since. I mod virtually all my single player games. I've been known to mess around with Heroes of might and magic and warcraft map making utilities. developer toolkits for rpg's sadly go beyond my capabilities or interest. I understand perfectly well that for modders its in the joy of it, that they don't do it for compensation. I love people who create the mods that i can then use and enjoy, I think they are awesome. but I think you misunderstand me, so I'll try again.

 

because modders do it for fun, for the love of it. its perfectly normal for them to stop having fun and move on. which is not a problem for single player games. but it IS a problem for MMO's, especially for mods that significantly modify the UI. the reason I mentioned compensation is that for developers, for people who run the game - its a job and a responsibility, so they don't have a luxury as a whole, to just say... meh, I don't feel like updating this mod anymore. and this happens all the time in modding community. modders are themselves gamers, obviously. so when they lose an interest in a game? they move on and its absolutely fine. but it does leave people who are still playing in a bit of a pickle. sometimes you have another person pick up where original creator left off. sometimes, you don't.

 

you think that I don't like flexibility and options? I love them. its just, in my experience, introducing mods to MMOs eventually creates less flexibility, not more.

it was nice talking to you as well, with opinions being on opposite sides and all.

Did you ever play any of the old turn based strategy games, Master of Orion/MOO2, warlords, etc.? Didnt get into heroes of might and magic much or the old warcrafts when they came along.

I did play a lot of starcraft and did a bunch of map making then, but the tools were limited to what's been available the last 5 or so years. Modded MOO2 to death, too.

Given how little SWTOR staff interact with the players you're best off making your own mods and then providing instructions.

But honestly, even the GTN's lack of price/unit doesn't really annoy me - what exactly are these mods supposed to be for?

Present day gaming companies have turned to not allowing modding so that they can charge players for DLC packs with little to no content and some cosmetic stuff. It's not a necessity in terms of functionality, but they have a lot of gamers fooled into thinking that its cheaper for them. No, they can just charge you more for giving you less.

 

Bingo.

Why no mods? Because money.

Given how little SWTOR staff interact with the players you're best off making your own mods and then providing instructions.

 

But honestly, even the GTN's lack of price/unit doesn't really annoy me - what exactly are these mods supposed to be for?

The quality of life things like further UI customization and PPU at the GTN, things like that.

I do fully agree with others that I do not want TOR to open the bossmods/damage meters/threat meters can of worms, or castsequence/rotation macros. I would like modifier macros though, so I can bind my M key to mount, shift+m to a sprint, and ctrl+m to jet boost so I can put them all effectively on the same key and save some action bar real estate. Same would go for some other abilities. Some classes have some wild ability bloat going on that makes it hard to keep a minimalistic interface when you have 3-4 action bars cluttering up the screen.

I'd be happy with mouseover healing, so I wasn't always having to click on unit frames then casting my heal as two seperate actions.

Also, being able to macro things like emotes would be cool. This would greatly widen the appeal of cartel-based emotes as well, because not everyone would buy something they have to manually type in every...single...time.

I'd be happy with mouseover healing, so I wasn't always having to click on unit frames then casting my heal as two seperate actions.

 

Also, being able to macro things like emotes would be cool. This would greatly widen the appeal of cartel-based emotes as well, because not everyone would buy something they have to manually type in every...single...time.

Okay, yeah the current system is getting on my nerves. /Inquisitor and /bountyhunter should be bindable or something.

Anyone want to start making some mods?

Did you ever play any of the old turn based strategy games, Master of Orion/MOO2, warlords, etc.? Didnt get into heroes of might and magic much or the old warcrafts when they came along.

 

I did play a lot of starcraft and did a bunch of map making then, but the tools were limited to what's been available the last 5 or so years. Modded MOO2 to death, too.

until heroes, I was mostly playing adventure games with occasional foray into original wolfenstein, but even after, not too many. played a little lords of the realm, was addicted to deadlock for a short time, watched SO playing panzer general. between having to share the computer for ... far too long and generally being a gamer who doesn't play as many games but plays the heck out of the ones that make it into to be played pile, I missed out on some of the classics (played Starcraft though - that game was played a lot - on easy difficulty mind you and with a lot of reloading, because SO got me sick with this "no casualties, unless impossible" disease I did mess around with mapmaking there a bit as well, but not much). I still wish GoG would get their hands on Dungeon Keeper gold already. I still have my discs, but I haven't been able to make them work and then there was time when Blizzard owned my soul with Diablo. and lets not talk about my magic the gathering obsession O_O (the original pc game, I tried new ones and it just wasn't the same, too much flash for me)

its really a shame that developers haven't been releasing tools as much, well other then Valve. modding single player games is fun you get whatever experience you wish to have, without affecting anyone else in a process.

I'm honestly hoping that bioware will implement at least some things for SWTOR, mousover casting and better customization of raid frames (including buffs and debuffs) would be my biggest wish. I'm willing to be patient though.

I started reading the thread and I don't understand the hate/love issue with mods.

There are different types of mods. In other games (ROM) I use UI mods to setup my screen better for my taste, and I don't see how that makes any damage to the game. With modifiable UI on SWTOR they basically added that. I don't edit my UI. I downloaded one I liked and I use it on all my toons.

Then there is the GTN. Again, what would be the problem if somebody makes a better search engine for the GTN? Is obviously low on the list of issues for BW, so why not let the community add value? And, in the end, you DONT have ot use it if you don't want to.

It is the game mechanics mods that modify HOW you play that affect others. And then, I ask you, does the guy with a gaming mouse or side device doesn't have an advantage already? And if so, do we all have to go out and get one to be competitive? Does the guy with a better computer have an advantage already? This is hardly a level playing field, and never will be.

I also disagree with the addition of macros or other mods that affect gameplay mechanics unless they become an addition to the game for ALL to use. And this is another road : BW should take advantage of the community, allow some of these mods to develop (GTN, UI, etc) and then, if good, incorporate them to the game as an option. That way the whole community helps itself. Doesn't anybody remember where CounterStrike came from?

I believe participation on the content and function of the game creates a more solid and loyal community in the long run. Much more than pets and floating chairs.

I started reading the thread and I don't understand the hate/love issue with mods.

There are different types of mods. In other games (ROM) I use UI mods to setup my screen better for my taste, and I don't see how that makes any damage to the game. With modifiable UI on SWTOR they basically added that. I don't edit my UI. I downloaded one I liked and I use it on all my toons.

 

Then there is the GTN. Again, what would be the problem if somebody makes a better search engine for the GTN? Is obviously low on the list of issues for BW, so why not let the community add value? And, in the end, you DONT have ot use it if you don't want to.

 

It is the game mechanics mods that modify HOW you play that affect others. And then, I ask you, does the guy with a gaming mouse or side device doesn't have an advantage already? And if so, do we all have to go out and get one to be competitive? Does the guy with a better computer have an advantage already? This is hardly a level playing field, and never will be.

 

I also disagree with the addition of macros or other mods that affect gameplay mechanics unless they become an addition to the game for ALL to use. And this is another road : BW should take advantage of the community, allow some of these mods to develop (GTN, UI, etc) and then, if good, incorporate them to the game as an option. That way the whole community helps itself. Doesn't anybody remember where CounterStrike came from?

 

I believe participation on the content and function of the game creates a more solid and loyal community in the long run. Much more than pets and floating chairs.

I would have to agree. I've played WOW off and on since it's Open Beta before it released. I have an even more conservative list of mods I use there, all of which are for UI enhancement only (all except for the Fishing mod, hehe). There are just some clunky mechanics here that need to be addressed. Hell, just allowing us to changed the look of our GUI would be a step in the right direction. GTN over-haul, ABSOLUTELY!! A need for mods. . .I don't think so. Some flexibility, definitely.

I love mods, and the reason is simple. In most games with mods, the community and mod developers do a better job of coming up and delivering UI customizations and enhancements than the game developers.

I do not really see how the mods similar to Altoholic, Genie or mod that could finally enable the functionality that unit frames should have year ago (like text everywhere or scaling buffs, debuffs) can be gamebreaking. Maybe to people who incorrectly associate keeping a track of single 5 x 5 mm buff or debuff in that mess that we have now with skill.

Not speaking about GTN UI vs. WoW Auctioneer and other AH tools there, I'll congratulate BW designers if they conjure anything close to that.

And that is really good point here:

Then there is the GTN. Again, what would be the problem if somebody makes a better search engine for the GTN? Is obviously low on the list of issues for BW, so why not let the community add value? And, in the end, you DONT have ot use it if you don't want to.

 

It is the game mechanics mods that modify HOW you play that affect others. And then, I ask you, does the guy with a gaming mouse or side device doesn't have an advantage already? And if so, do we all have to go out and get one to be competitive? Does the guy with a better computer have an advantage already? This is hardly a level playing field, and never will be.

No mods are needed.

The game is fine like it is. Pls no second wow !

/thread