The last battle, Darth Plagueis vs Darth Traya, was the ultimate duel of guile and deception, by with a legion of assassins trained for that exact purpose, Traya emerged triumphant. But onto round six.

For all those of you aren’t aware, the Kaggath is an ancient rite of the Sith, ‘one part duel, one part large-scale dejarik-match’. The two combatants have full use of their power bases, be it armies, strongholds or fleets, in order to outwit and outmanoeuvre their opponent. The Kaggath is no simple lightsaber duel, although it can come down to one, and the arena can be anywhere: a planet, star system or the entire galaxy.

Before we begin, let’s go over the ground rules again:

• The arena: the known galaxy.
  
• No outside help of any kind, the combatants cannot call upon assets outside their power base, or other prominent powers apart from those listed below. This excludes allies of the era, i.e. the Keto family, Mandalore the Indomitable.
  
• No outside involvement, other powers will not and cannot interrupt or affect the battle, for the purpose of argument they are non-existent.
  
• Both combatants are aware of the others identity and appearance.
  
• No surrender, fight to the death!
  
• No superweapons e.g. Supernova.
  
• Technology level is universal (unless considered archaic or advanced at the time): blaster fire, armouring, lightsabers etc. are all the same regardless of period, all that matters is size, quantity and power.
  
• Use your imagination: obviously these powers existed in a different time frame but let’s just pretend.
  

Permitted Allies:

Exar Kun: Ulic Qel-Droma

Naga Sadow: Gav Daragon

So, the combatants: Exar Kun was a fallen Jedi and Dark Lord of the Sith, exceptionally skilled with the lightsaber and the Force. Naga Sadow too was a Dark Lord of the Sith, ambitious, ruthless, intelligent and manipulative. He was an accomplished Sith sorcerer and master of generation Force illusions.

Exar Kun had the strength of his personal Sith Empire which included an army of Massassi warriors, Krath, dark Jedi and Sith spawn. While Sadow commanded a similar makeup of Massassi warriors and Sith spawn of his ancient Sith Empire – led by their Sith masters. But when these two juggernauts of the Sith collide, who will win?

I am surprised Traya actually won. On to the next!

Exar Kun wins. Easily.

All Exar Kun has to do is use his incredibly powerful Force Senses to locate Naga Sadow. Then he takes a fleet to wherever his meditation sphere is and then blow it to pieces. Simple.

Edit: And for the purpose of future battles, will Exar Kun have Mandalore the Indomitable?

Well, Exar Kun has pretty much everything Naga Sadow has + the Krath Cult + Mandalorians. Exar Kun is also familiar with Sith illusions. And one-on-one he seems to be the better duellist.

I agree that this one goes to Exar Kun. (And he will be the one to defeat Darth Traya in the next round.)

Edit: Do the other Mandalorian Warriors count as part of Exar Kun's powerbase?

I'm about to tear apart everything anybody has ever said regarding Naga Sadow's illusions.

From the SWTOR Encyclopedia, published in 2012:

"Sadow understood that fear of the dark side's creations could be just as useful as the actual monstrosities. He used a meditation sphere, a rare form of starship infused with Sith technology, to project illusions of terrifying monsters and endless armies into the minds of his enemies."

I knew those touchy-feely illusions were too good (or bad...) to be true.

Obviously we can see that the illusions Naga Sadow creates are only in the mind. Not physical. Whoever it was who said that they were, do you have evidence of that? Because reading that passage, I seriously doubt it.

And Exar Kun's troops aren't going to be scared of Sith Monstrosities. They're fighting along side them, after all....

I am surprised Traya actually won. On to the next!

I'm not. lol

Going to have to agree with most of the posts made already and go with Kun winning this.

I'm about to tear apart everything anybody has ever said regarding Naga Sadow's illusions.

 

From the SWTOR Encyclopedia, published in 2012:

 

"Sadow understood that fear of the dark side's creations could be just as useful as the actual monstrosities. He used a meditation sphere, a rare form of starship infused with Sith technology, to project illusions of terrifying monsters and endless armies into the minds of his enemies."

 

I knew those touchy-feely illusions were too good (or bad...) to be true.

 

Obviously we can see that the illusions Naga Sadow creates are only in the mind. Not physical. Whoever it was who said that they were, do you have evidence of that? Because reading that passage, I seriously doubt it.

 

And Exar Kun's troops aren't going to be scared of Sith Monstrosities. They're fighting along side them, after all....

No, the illusions weren't real. But they did kill people(evidenced by the massacre that was the Battle of Coruscant). When the illusions vanished, the tide changed dramatically.

No, the illusions weren't real. But they did kill people(evidenced by the massacre that was the Battle of Coruscant). When the illusions vanished, the tide changed dramatically.

I'm not sure if it is necessary for them to kill to influence a battle significantly.

Imagine you are fighting one opponent, both equipped with melee weapons. Now add three other illusions of opponents, but you don't know who is your real enemy. The chances that the real one will kill you are a lot higher, because you will try to defend yourself against all of them.

No, the illusions weren't real. But they did kill people(evidenced by the massacre that was the Battle of Coruscant). When the illusions vanished, the tide changed dramatically.

That makes no sense at all. I have no idea how it can be an illusion inside people's MINDS, but still kill them.

Maybe the massacre was because the Republic troops were overcome with fear and therefor didn't fight as well, allowing the real troops to do much more damage.

That makes no sense at all. I have no idea how it can be an illusion inside people's MINDS, but still kill them.

 

Maybe the massacre was because the Republic troops were overcome with fear and therefor didn't fight as well, allowing the real troops to do much more damage.

The following comes from wookieepedia:

By simply gesturing with one's hands, a magician could create whatever manifestations she desired. As an application of the dark side, sorcerers tended to create hideous forms of serpents and other creatures to torment victims. Playing on all the victim's senses, the illusion could seemingly attack individuals, should they actually believe the apparition to be real. However, the illusion could be undone should the victim cease to believe it exists. The illusions could also be undone if the conjuring sorcerer is interrupted by a powerful light side attack.[16]

Best I could come up with right now.

Maaruin makes a good point, however I don't think the numbers of Sadow's real forces would allow that to happen.

The following comes from wookieepedia:

 

By simply gesturing with one's hands, a magician could create whatever manifestations she desired. As an application of the dark side, sorcerers tended to create hideous forms of serpents and other creatures to torment victims. Playing on all the victim's senses, the illusion could seemingly attack individuals, should they actually believe the apparition to be real. However, the illusion could be undone should the victim cease to believe it exists. The illusions could also be undone if the conjuring sorcerer is interrupted by a powerful light side attack.[16]

 

Best I could come up with right now.

 

Maaruin makes a good point, however I don't think the numbers of Sadow's real forces would allow that to happen.

Hmm, is there the possibility that Sadow's forces didn't see the illusions? Because if that's the case, even a single warrior might kill an entire army, while everyone is busy fighting illusions.

Also, if the illusions work on all senses, you fill feel injured when the illusions appear to injure you. This will decrease your fighting skills and a real warrior is even more likely to finish you off.

HECK YEAH!!! I'm 5/5 on the Kaggath tournement so far! I called 'em all correct!!

*flexs debate muscles*

Hmm, is there the possibility that Sadow's forces didn't see the illusions? Because if that's the case, even a single warrior might kill an entire army, while everyone is busy fighting illusions.

 

Also, if the illusions work on all senses, you fill feel injured when the illusions appear to injure you. This will decrease your fighting skills and a real warrior is even more likely to finish you off.

I believe you are right there.

An interesting thing to note is that these illusions won't affect Kun's Massassi Warriors. Naga Sadow won't be able to affect the minds of these creatures(because their minds are far to simple), so the Massassi Warriors will be tearing up Naga Sadow's real forces.

Not that the actual battle matters. Exar Kun can just use his Force Sense to locate Naga Sadow and blow him and his meditation sphere into space dust.

I agree with most everyone so far concerning this Kaggath. Exar Kun FTW. Here's why:

1. Kun seems to be a better duelist.

2. His army is extremely lethal in that it is very large AND it is a hybrid of all kinds of different stuff. Massassi, Krath, Dark Jedi, beasts. Kun's army is just better then Sadow's.

By simply gesturing with one's hands, a magician could create whatever manifestations she desired. As an application of the dark side, sorcerers tended to create hideous forms of serpents and other creatures to torment victims. Playing on all the victim's senses, the illusion could seemingly attack individuals, should they actually believe the apparition to be real

Looking at the underlined/bolded words in that I still seriously doubt the illusions were actually real, physical beings. Or even physical in the victim's mind.

How I'm reading this is: The illusions seems real due to the manipulation of senses. They torment the victim in their own mind. It seems like they attack the victim, but it's all in their head. And even then, they have to think they're real.

The following comes from wookieepedia:

 

Playing on all the victim's senses, the illusion could seemingly attack individuals, should they actually believe the apparition to be real.

OMG.

If Exar Kun knows of Naga Sadow's abilities, which he undoubtably will, or he'll find out soon, and then he tells the troops the enemy Dark Lord's secret... no one will believe in the illusions and then POOF they'll all be gone.

Looking at the underlined/bolded words in that I still seriously doubt the illusions were actually real, physical beings. Or even physical in the victim's mind.

 

How I'm reading this is: The illusions seems real due to the manipulation of senses. They torment the victim in their own mind. It seems like they attack the victim, but it's all in their head. And even then, they have to think they're real.

They were real in a way. Should victims of the Sorceror's Dark powers believe the visions are real, then they are real. Their mind plays tricks on them. When the illusion's weapon meets with the victim's body, their mind and body create the illusion of pain. The pain that the mind creates could severely cripple or even kill the victim. But if the victim is capable of seeing through the vision, then the vision disappears, but even one of the wisest Jedi of all time could not see through these visions.

The thing about Naga Sadow's strategy with these visions was that he didn't just make them appear right in front of the Republic. He made the illusion that they were coming down in large shuttles from looming warships. It created the illusion that these illusions were real.

(Complex yes?)

In concern with the illusions.

Let's say someone hallucinates, they see things and think things are happening to them. If the hallucination is stong enough, it doesn't matter whether or not you know they're hallucinations, they still make you think things are happening to them.

Sadow's illusions are the same way, for most, it won't matter if they know, they're still horrified and with real troops in the mix, they won't be able to tell which are which. Only the really strong willed people who know Naga Sadow has illusions could resist them. (In this case, Kun,Ulic, and a few other guys)

in concern with the Kaggath, it all really comes down to how soon Kun finds out about Sadow's illusions, if at all.

OMG.

 

If Exar Kun knows of Naga Sadow's abilities, which he undoubtably will, or he'll find out soon, and then he tells the troops the enemy Dark Lord's secret... no one will believe in the illusions and then POOF they'll all be gone.

Exactly. Exar Kun studied Naga Sadow's teachings and thus gained a knowledge of ith Sorcery. Someone with the proper knowledge can make the illusions vanish.

But I don't see this coming to an actual battle. I think Exar Kun will just take a fleet right to Sadow's sphere and turn him into space dust.

Exactly. Exar Kun studied Naga Sadow's teachings and thus gained a knowledge of ith Sorcery. Someone with the proper knowledge can make the illusions vanish.

 

But I don't see this coming to an actual battle. I think Exar Kun will just take a fleet right to Sadow's sphere and turn him into space dust.

Wouldn't Exar Kun try to board the sphere and duel Naga Sadow to gain insight in some more of his secrets?

Wouldn't Exar Kun try to board the sphere and duel Naga Sadow to gain insight in some more of his secrets?

Good point, but Naga Sadow fled from his 'relatively' untrained apprentice. I don't consider Naga Sadow to be a warrior, but if it did come down to a duel, Exar Kun would win it.

Exar Kun is just an absolute powerhouse with the blade(not to mention his power in The Force).

Good point, but Naga Sadow fled from his 'relatively' untrained apprentice. I don't consider Naga Sadow to be a warrior, but if it did come down to a duel, Exar Kun would win it.

 

Exar Kun is just an absolute powerhouse with the blade(not to mention his power in The Force).

(According to the Advanced Class Trainer for Sith Warriors in SWTOR, Naga Sadow developed a Marauder-like fighting style. So he is kind of a warrior.)

Of course, Exar Kun will win this duel. But a one-on-one seems more his way of doing things then simply blasting his enemy with his fleet.

And of course he will notice if Sadow tries the Supernova-thing and avoid it. (But it won't come to this, since it is against the rules.)

(According to the Advanced Class Trainer for Sith Warriors in SWTOR, Naga Sadow developed a Marauder-like fighting style. So he is kind of a warrior.)

 

Of course, Exar Kun will win this duel. But a one-on-one seems more his way of doing things then simply blasting his enemy with his fleet.

 

And of course he will notice if Sadow tries the Supernova-thing and avoid it. (But it won't come to this, since it is against the rules.)

I completely forgot about the advanced class trainer! Really, I consider a madness Sorceror more his style. His claim to fame(aside from the GHW) is his remarkable sorcery.

But anyway, Exar Kun would win the duel. I would go so far to say that he would win easily(but I won't go that far ).

I am surprised Traya actually won. On to the next!

 

Exar Kun wins. Easily.

 

All Exar Kun has to do is use his incredibly powerful Force Senses to locate Naga Sadow. Then he takes a fleet to wherever his meditation sphere is and then blow it to pieces. Simple.

Ha, since when are Kaggaths ever simple?

I agree though, Kun wins. The biggest and most obvious issue for Kun will be Sadow's army of illusions. The first part of the fight will be Kun getting put on the defensive as Sadow strikes first and hard, quickly punching holes in Kun's front lines and then, even after suffering massive casualties, his forces keep going. Kun will then grow curious as to how Sadow is reinforcing his troops so effectively. It won't take him long to realize the illusion at that point and Sadow's forces will fall apart as Kuns uses the knowledge to remove Sadow's greatest asset. Kun, just to illustrate his superiority, will 1v1 Sadow which will be the most lopsided part of this fight with Sadow losing his head (literally) or being overpowered by Kun's superior force strength.

If Sadow had even the slightest chance, it would be attacking so fast while Kun is near the front lines that he can encircle and just overwhelm Kun before his illusions are found out. Even then I find it unlikely. The allies will likely not play a part in this fight. They're more like battlefield generals and can't even hope to face either of the main combatants. As for fighting against each other, Ulic wins by superior training/experience giving another point to Kun.

Easiest match to call yet Beni, (even though I'm a huge Sadow fan), next!

Everyone makes good points, apart from Aubere who's point is fatally flawed.

Exar Kun could feasibly use his powers in Force sense to find Naga Sadow (was he actually able to do that? Are there any accounts when he did something like that?) but Sadow being a powerful Sith Sorcerer could easily hide his presence using force concealment. And even if Kun did find him, Sadow would not only have a sizeable fleet protecting him but would be able to either see the incoming attack through a force vision, or simply sense Kun's approaching presence. So he could just jump to hyperspace at the last moment and leave Kun with a fleet to contend with.

Or he could use Kun's power to his advantage, allow himself to be found and then leave a trap for Kun e.g. an ambush which could result in Kun's death if his fleet is overwhelmed.

And in terms of Force illusions, it gives Sadow an edge in more ways than just larger numbers. He can use the illusions to distract other forces, conceal his real numbers or as some of you mentioned to distract fighters from the real threat, the illusions will severly weaken the effectiveness of Kun's battle machine. But yes, much like in the Great Hyperspace War, once Kun discovers they are illusions, the advantage will be lost.

Question, how does Kun's arm match up with Sadow's in terms of numbers?