XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 who wins? takes place on vitiate's space station, where he overwhelmed the jedi strike team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 of course I know that. I was simply wondering: what would make it a trap? anyways, this is a pretty close battle to judge, as vitiate has mastery over the arts of sith sorcery and alchemy, while vader has the edge (and a huge one) in lightsaber combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Totes Vader. *waits for raging fanboys* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 Totes Vader. *waits for raging fanboys* any reason behind your verdict? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 Totes Vader. *waits for raging fanboys* I vote Vader, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 any reason behind your verdict?Well if you insist... The Sith Emperor, while powerful, has shown considerably susceptibility to strong lightsaber wielding opponents. He was almost defeated by the combined efforts or Revan, Meetra and Scourge and was killed by the HoT. Vader is an exceptional duelist but on top of this is incredibly durable. He can essentially tank whatever the Sith Emperor throws at him then cut him down in a lightsaber engagement, a field in which the Sith Emperor is sorely lacking. Vitiate's only hope is subduing Vader with lightning, but I think Vader is capable of overcoming that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 hmm, I may have to vote vitiate (however barely), as he is canonically the most powerful force user to have ever existed (up to his time), putting him ahead the likes of Kun, ragnos, nadd, sadow, etc. his mind domination abilities are extremely advanced, being able to dominate the minds of 8000 sith lords, plus said force lightning storm that had the capability to overwhelm the strike team consisting of 4 of the most powerful jedi in the galaxy, easily. also, vitiate was weakened when he battled the hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 The 8000 Sith Lords were willing to go along with him. And I don't really think he needed to influence them. He could have just said: "Hey, I can make us all immortal." "Sweet, we're in." Sith will go along with anything that involves immortality. /whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted September 11, 2013 Author Share Posted September 11, 2013 (edited) would you say exar kun > vader? also didnt vitiate wipe out a couple of his dark councils? plus vitiate can create duplicates of himself mid-fight, although the true potency of these illusions would be questionable. Edited September 11, 2013 by XSUPREMESKILLZX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 11, 2013 Share Posted September 11, 2013 hmm, I may have to vote vitiate (however barely), as he is canonically the most powerful force user to have ever existed (up to his time), putting him ahead the likes of Kun, ragnos, nadd, sadow, etc. his mind domination abilities are extremely advanced, being able to dominate the minds of 8000 sith lords, plus said force lightning storm that had the capability to overwhelm the strike team consisting of 4 of the most powerful jedi in the galaxy, easily. also, vitiate was weakened when he battled the hero.All true, however Vader has extremely powerful telepathic abilities of his own, able to fix other beings in place simply with his mind. I think this would in turn indicate that Vader has equally strong mental barriers, and would therefore be able to resist Vitiate's mental dominance as Revan did. Also noting that Vitiate relies on overwhelming his opponents with the power of the dark side to weaken their minds, this presumably have little effect on a fellow dark side such as Vader. It could also be interrupted with some kind of telekinetic attack, much like Revan did. Force lightning is going to be Vitiate's second attack for sure, however here I'd point out that the Force storm he generated against the Jedi Strike Team was likely pre-prepared as he was unable to produce lightning of such potency against Revan and co. an attack that would have come very much in handy. Regardless, Vader is capable of absorbing any lightning attack Vitiate can produce with his lightsaber. And although Vader will likely be unable to ground the full force on his blade. His suit will protect his body from the effects, and while the suit itself may be severely damaged, Vader can survive without it, and fight without it. Though alternatively Vader could create a protection bubble around himself, and while Vitiate could likely overwhelm it after a time Vader could break his assault with a powerful telekinetic blast, and then close the distance. And finally Vader is highly skilled with the use of Force leap, which could be used to close the distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted September 12, 2013 Author Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) All true, however Vader has extremely powerful telepathic abilities of his own, able to fix other beings in place simply with his mind. I think this would in turn indicate that Vader has equally strong mental barriers, and would therefore be able to resist Vitiate's mental dominance as Revan did. Also noting that Vitiate relies on overwhelming his opponents with the power of the dark side to weaken their minds, this presumably have little effect on a fellow dark side such as Vader. It could also be interrupted with some kind of telekinetic attack, much like Revan did. Force lightning is going to be Vitiate's second attack for sure, however here I'd point out that the Force storm he generated against the Jedi Strike Team was likely pre-prepared as he was unable to produce lightning of such potency against Revan and co. an attack that would have come very much in handy. Regardless, Vader is capable of absorbing any lightning attack Vitiate can produce with his lightsaber. And although Vader will likely be unable to ground the full force on his blade. His suit will protect his body from the effects, and while the suit itself may be severely damaged, Vader can survive without it, and fight without it. Though alternatively Vader could create a protection bubble around himself, and while Vitiate could likely overwhelm it after a time Vader could break his assault with a powerful telekinetic blast, and then close the distance. And finally Vader is highly skilled with the use of Force leap, which could be used to close the distance. vitiate did overwhelm revan with FLS on a moment's notice. the same revan who showed an impressive display of tutaminis when he easily overwhelmed nyriss's lightning storm, while in a drugged state. vitiate is also extremely proficient with TK, being able to throw revan back with barely an effort, and force push a being as strong as the HoT back, while severely injured. he then proceeds to destroy the room where you battled him, whilst in spirit form. plus, as aforementioned, vitiate may be able to screw with vader due to duplicates. another thing: the only way revan really countered vitiate's mind domination was through previous knowledge of the ability and its effects, knowledge that vader may not have. Edited September 12, 2013 by XSUPREMESKILLZX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) Vader brings Vtitiate to his knees like he did with The Son/Daughter. "ON YOUR KNEES!" Damn that was such a ****** moment in TCW. (Also yes I know Mortis was a nexus, I just wanted to use that line. ) But for real though, yeah...Vader wins this...in fact he could just speedblitz or dodge Vitiate's long range attacks he is quick enough. Force lighting Vader could avoid, or block via force barrier or his lightsaber. Edited September 12, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 would you say exar kun > vader? also didnt vitiate wipe out a couple of his dark councils? plus vitiate can create duplicates of himself mid-fight, although the true potency of these illusions would be questionable.The duplicates would only serve to engage Vader in combat, and Vader is more than capable of taking on multiple opponents, also noting one strike is all it takes to destroy them. And the disparity between Vader and Exar Kun is minimal to say the least, however I'd give it to Vader simply by merit of being the Chosen One. Exar Kun comes incredibly close however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted September 12, 2013 Author Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) The duplicates would only serve to engage Vader in combat, and Vader is more than capable of taking on multiple opponents, also noting one strike is all it takes to destroy them. And the disparity between Vader and Exar Kun is minimal to say the least, however I'd give it to Vader simply by merit of being the Chosen One. Exar Kun comes incredibly close however. the reason i said the exar kun thing is because vitiate is canonically stronger than exar im not sure i can confidently say vader'd just "speedblitz" vitiate, as he is more than capable of creating force waves to halt vader's approach; said waves can be made without even a gesture on vitiate's part. vitiate can also cocoon himself in the force, possibly being able to protect against most, if not all, of vader's force-based attacks. Edited September 12, 2013 by XSUPREMESKILLZX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 vitiate did overwhelm revan with FLS on a moment's notice. the same revan who showed an impressive display of tutaminis when he easily overwhelmed nyriss's lightning storm, while in a drugged state. vitiate is also extremely proficient with TK, being able to throw revan back with barely an effort, and force push a being as strong as the HoT back, while severely injured. he then proceeds to destroy the room where you battled him, whilst in spirit form. plus, as aforementioned, vitiate may be able to screw with vader due to duplicates. another thing: the only way revan really countered vitiate's mind domination was through previous knowledge of the ability and its effects, knowledge that vader may not have.Vitiate did not use any variant of Force storm against Revan, he merely overwhelmed him with a powerful stream of lightning. A stream that Revan was able to withstand for a short amount of time. Vader being more powerful would do better with a protection bubble. Now Vitiate is highly skilled with TK, but as is Vader, but I'd say Vader is much more technically skilled and more than capable of absorbing the impact of Vitiate's attack and responding in kind. However I would point out that in spirit form one's powers are amplified considerably, as one's connection to the Force is greatly strengthened. And finally Revan only managed to overcome Vitiate's mind control through sheer strength of will, and an interruption of the attack. Prior experience really had little to do with it. There are no loop holes or special techniques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted September 12, 2013 Author Share Posted September 12, 2013 Vitiate did not use any variant of Force storm against Revan, he merely overwhelmed him with a powerful stream of lightning. A stream that Revan was able to withstand for a short amount of time. Vader being more powerful would do better with a protection bubble. Now Vitiate is highly skilled with TK, but as is Vader, but I'd say Vader is much more technically skilled and more than capable of absorbing the impact of Vitiate's attack and responding in kind. However I would point out that in spirit form one's powers are amplified considerably, as one's connection to the Force is greatly strengthened. And finally Revan only managed to overcome Vitiate's mind control through sheer strength of will, and an interruption of the attack. Prior experience really had little to do with it. There are no loop holes or special techniques. lemme get the book to explain vitiate's attack if one's strength is amplified considerably, why dont ancient sith spirits run rampant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 the reason i said the exar kun thing is because vitiate is canonically stronger than exar im not sure i can confidently say vader'd just "speedblitz" vitiate, as he is more than capable of creating force waves to halt vader's approach; said waves can be made without even a gesture on vitiate's part. vitiate can also cocoon himself in the force, possibly being able to protect against most, if not all, of vader's force-based attacks.I don't think anyone disagrees with that. In fact you might be interested in a series of lists we've been compiling regarding Force abilities (and well as lightsaber abilities) See the index thread here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=662016 Now I don't believe this fight will at all end quickly, I expect Vitiate will constantly retreat every time Vader gets close, but I do believe that inevitably Vitiate will be caught out. And before Vader tires, because Vader is a gosh darn tank. And while yes he can cocoon himself against Force based attacks, he was caught off guard on multiple occasions when Revan sent his lightning back at him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted September 12, 2013 Author Share Posted September 12, 2013 "Revan knew he was gathering his energy to release a storm of pure dark side energy, just as Nyriss had done." note: even though it says "gathering his energy", the occurence takes place in but a few seconds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 if one's strength is amplified considerably, why dont ancient sith spirits run rampant?Because Sith spirits are bound to their place of origin, yet when one enters said places the spirits often respond with devastating force e.g. Lord Kallig dominated the minds of countless slaves, troopers and even Sith. And when his ancestor entered his tomb, Kallig tossed him about like a rag-doll and was fully capable of killing him. Exar Kun after performing a ritual on Yavin 4 which freed himself from his corporeal form was trapped on the planet through the combined effort of hundreds of Jedi, producing the greatest Wall of Light ever created. However even then he lived on and thousand of years later he tormented Luke's Jedi Praxeum on the planet. Incinerating Jedi with nothing but his sight, and sending Luke into a coma. It took another Wall of Light to banish him forever. Karness Muur's spirit resided in the Muur Talisman and was capable of possessing all who wore it, bolstering their own powers and possessing the ability to turn other beings into rakghouls. Darth Sidious after his first death on Endor was able to drag his spirit from the depths of Chaos and possess one of his adepts light years away, before possessing a new clone body. Proceeding to body hop as each one expired. And these are just a few, their are countless other examples. And it is well known to the Sith that walking into a Sith tomb is tantamount to suicide if it is still haunted by Sith Spirit, there is a reason why the Sith Emperor had them all imprisoned in the Dark Temple, for their escape could spell doom for everyone on Dromund Kaas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted September 12, 2013 Share Posted September 12, 2013 Exar Kun after performing a ritual on Yavin 4 which freed himself from his corporeal form was trapped on the planet through the combined effort of hundreds of Jedi, producing the greatest Wall of Light ever created. Well actually the greatest Wall of Light made, is keeping Palpatine at bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted September 12, 2013 Author Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) Because Sith spirits are bound to their place of origin, yet when one enters said places the spirits often respond with devastating force e.g. Lord Kallig dominated the minds of countless slaves, troopers and even Sith. And when his ancestor entered his tomb, Kallig tossed him about like a rag-doll and was fully capable of killing him. Exar Kun after performing a ritual on Yavin 4 which freed himself from his corporeal form was trapped on the planet through the combined effort of hundreds of Jedi, producing the greatest Wall of Light ever created. However even then he lived on and thousand of years later he tormented Luke's Jedi Praxeum on the planet. Incinerating Jedi with nothing but his sight, and sending Luke into a coma. It took another Wall of Light to banish him forever. Karness Muur's spirit resided in the Muur Talisman and was capable of possessing all who wore it, bolstering their own powers and possessing the ability to turn other beings into rakghouls. Darth Sidious after his first death on Endor was able to drag his spirit from the depths of Chaos and possess one of his adepts light years away, before possessing a new clone body. Proceeding to body hop as each one expired. And these are just a few, their are countless other examples. And it is well known to the Sith that walking into a Sith tomb is tantamount to suicide if it is still haunted by Sith Spirit, there is a reason why the Sith Emperor had them all imprisoned in the Dark Temple, for their escape could spell doom for everyone on Dromund Kaas. ah ok. thanks for elaboration anyways, im still convinced that vitiate would win, however narrow a victory Edited September 12, 2013 by XSUPREMESKILLZX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XSUPREMESKILLZX Posted September 13, 2013 Author Share Posted September 13, 2013 Could Vader tank vitiate's FLS? because Nyriss's lightning was able to turn people into charred husks, she then was going to use a FLS on exile/scourge, but revan blocks it easily, while in a drugged state. the same revan failed to block vitiate's FLS, which was described as "infinitely more powerful than Nyriss had ever been." Obviously that's hyperbole, but it states vitiate's clear dominance in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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